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Sony Hints At PS3 'Homebrew' Linux Plans
simoniker writes "Talking to the Japanese press, Sony executive Izumi Kawanishi has illuminated some of his company's PlayStation 3 Linux plans, indicating that it will be possible for individual 'homebrew' coders to create playable content for PS3, something actively blocked for Sony's PSP handheld. He commented: "Other then game studios tied to official developer licenses, we'd like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3"."
PS2 linux failed because:
1) Sony crippled it and didn't give anything close to direct access to hardware, meaning very little hardware acceleration
2) Sony charged a big chunk of change to "buy" linux support
And Sony is actively trying to kill off PSP homebrew. So don't get your hopes up!
Ken Kutaragi will not get a cent from me.
The PS2 was supposed to support Linux. How many homebrewers bought the PS2 dev kit and actually had success?
How about the amazing no-show on the PSP?
And now the PS3 is supposed to be friendly? It'd be cheaper to buy a MacMini and howebrew up something for Ubuntu or OS X than the Sony PS3.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Remember how PS2 homebrew development exploded when the PS2 Linux kit came out? Remember how many new and exciting independant games were released for the PS2?
This is going to be awesome.
So Sony is going to go after the free software audience with a $600 console? Someone needs to recheck their math...
I don't see how there can be such a big difference in the stance of homebrew applications for their 2 main flagship products. Unless they are going to stop cracking down on these applications for the PSP, or else, this is just some lame attempt to recover from the bashing they are receiving at E3, since they've been bashed about a lot of things, including the crack downs on homebrew apps.
"I would definitely reconsider purchasing the console if I could run linux on it and I think many other people would reconsider too. $599 isn't too bad for a console+linux PC."
... that might be a great buy too ... imagine, 2 consoles in my house.
... I can't imagine that would make Sony too happy ... hey even better! Although that is probably the reason why the PS3 won't turn out to be a very good linux platform.
- right on, I haven't had a console since my SNES. I've already decided to buy a Wii (they had me when they announced the virtual console and the rest is just bonus), but if I can use the PS3 as a desktop computer as well
Of course the PS3 would just be for running Linux
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr. Seus
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
So, on the PSP, they are currently actively blocking any attempts of "homebrew" software. But for the PS3, they are going to allow it?
I don't see how there can be such a big difference in the stance of homebrew applications for their 2 main flagship products.
The difference is this. On the PSP, if someone creates a game you can play Sony gets no money.
On the PS3, if you crate a game for others to play you can probably sell it on the Sony online service and Sony gets a cut.
I'm pretty sure Sony intends this to be a way to have a lot of small games generated to give theonline service buzz, which benefits everyone. It's a shame they can't see reason on the PSP but at least they came to thier senses with the PS3 and it even makes sense in terms of a profit motive.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The wii development kit is still $2000 - hardly what I'd call cheap for just anyone to buy (though hugely cheaper than traditional kits and I think will be a big hit).
However Linux on a PS3 is I think something that really was thought out before, unlike the shaking controller deal that I agree looks like it was put together at the last moment.
They did have Linux on the PS2, it just was not very useful. However combined with the online service it makes a lot more sense for people to write thier own cool programs that can then be distributed over the service, making its use much more compelling. The online service had to have been under consideration ever since the XBox.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Maybe they're not having to much success with creating apps on the CELL. Hopefully they'll open it up for the genius's of the world to take a stab at coding in the cell environment. For the coders who want to experiment with the CELL, this could be an attractive offering. I"m sure a CELL desktop/server will cost a hell of a lot more than a $599.
Could be a good thing if they actually give access to all of the hardware. But I doubt it, my PSP is still on firmware 1.5.
MrJynxx
This is why you should be concerned:
If the article is to be believed, you don't get access to any of the normal libraries. If they don't give us specs, either, then you're not going to be doing much 3D...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
- Kutaragi at the recent 2006 PlayStation Business Briefing
- Kutaragi at the earlier PS3 Conference Report
It would appear then that things aren't all that bleak. Maybe IBM had an influence this time around, as they would love to see the Cell succeed, and perhaps forced Sony to open up a bit.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
And let's get some mirrors in here!
Don't put them there. Put them in front of that sign--the one that says 599.
"It doesn't matter as long as you have direct access to the graphics processors. Then people can craft thier own libraries. "
Spoken like someone that has never written a line of code.
If having direct access is all that you need then where are the free drivers for nVidia and Ati graphics cards?
Having access isn't enough. You need drivers!
If we are lucky Sony will give you a frame-buffer. Good enough for Frozen-bubble but not enough to get me to pay $600+ for.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Spoken like someone that has never written a line of code.
If having direct access is all that you need then where are the free drivers for nVidia and Ati graphics cards?
Having access isn't enough. You need drivers!
Actually I have done a fair amount of OpenGL programming.
I pretty obviosuly did not mean THAT direct. I meant some standard way to acces sthe graphics card, it's kind of hard to image there will not be an OpenGL library or at least device drive for the video card we can access.
You are coming at this from the wrong angle, Sony themseves has said they want this to be able to build user provided content. So instead of thinking of what ways Sony might possibly lock down the whole box so no-one could actually do what they say, instead think of the kinds of minimum easily portable tools they might include.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Cause you would be running a IBM/Linux desktop NOT the everpresent Wintel setup. I think Sony would like it because MicroSoft would totally not like it.
It is offcourse unlikely that this will have any effect but at least something is being tried.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Sony themseves has said they want this to be able to build user provided content.
That's "user provided content", not "user provided programs". People writing about the entertainment industry tend to use the term "content" to refer to any work other than a computer program. Such a statement could just refer to mods (maps, models, and missions) for existing licensed games, right?
Do you think it's possible that somebody other than you might find this restriction to be too onerous for PS2 Linux to be worthwhile?
Personally, I would never want to write code for a system where one major piece (the optical drive, for crying out loud!) is inaccessible. I'm sure this was Sony's bright idea to prevent piracy -- and we see how well that's working. Game piracy seems to be happening regardless, so this policy really only hurts Linux enthusiasts who wanted to do development work on the PS2.
Phil Harrison: .. If you're a complete music fan and video fan, and you want to have huge amounts of digital content, then you can upgrade to whatever size of drive you like. You can put any in that you like - it is a computer, after all.
= 16969
gamesindustry.biz: So that hard drive is a standard PC drive?
Phil Harrison: ATA, bog standard, yeah.
gamesindustry.biz: You're not going to be selling Sony drive upgrades?
Phil Harrison: We've got no plan to. We may offer something, but we have no plan to at the moment.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid
I started in computing with a ZX81 connected to a TV and moved on to a Sinclair Spectrum. Later bought an Atari ST set but had access to a nephew's Commodore Amiga. This was at a time when PC had crappy graphic and cost an arm and a leg. Now on to my third PC in 10 years which is good enough for everything but play the games at their best. (A good graphic cost more than a PS3). A PS3 with Linux installed and off the shelf USB keyboard and mouse will be a viable alternative to a Windows PC.
Main point:
Nintendo Wii has its virtual console where classic Nintendo, Sega, and Turbographix 16 games can be played. Xbox 360 has Xbox Live Arcade where users can download classic games and play them on their console. And what does PS3 have? Homebrew. With homebrew will come access to everything availabe on Nintendo's Virtual Console and the 360's Live Arcade and much more. Documentation is freely available on how to code for the Cell, and it bet it would take all of 6 months to have MAME, Snes9x, Reailty64, FCE Ultra (NES), Gens and everything else up and running on it. Underhanded? Sure is. But you know it will happen. And I for one will be thrilled about it.
Other points:
- I think Sony also realizes that by allowing homebrews on Linux, they'll due themselves a favor by stifling people trying to hack the system. Most system hacks come from hackers who want to run homebrew apps on a system (case and point, the 360 has been hacked, but since the hack can only be used to pirate games, they've not released the source code). So by giving people the ability to run homebrews outright, they'll immediately cut down on hacking and (i think) in dear themselves to a lot of users.
- PS2 linux failed because (as mentioned in these comments) was not a very serious nor technically mature effort by Sony. It was more of a proof of concept than anything. Sony barely talked about, and they certainly never bragged about it. They released it in 2002 and discontinued it 2003. With only 32MB of RAM (not to mention the processing power) there was limited use for the system as much more of a gimmick. Not many of you would've actively been running a poorly optimized version of linux on a slow pc with only 32MB of memory, so I mean, you can't blame Sony for not sticking with it long term as supporting it. The product had limited use. Like a car that could only drive 30 miles at a time.
- Fast forward to 2006, and Sony has publicly stated the PS3's intent to run Linux (and potentialy Mac OS X- . Sony & Apple have talked about teaming up, and with OS X on PS3 they could both stick it nemesis Microsoft). The PS3 has a total of 512MB of RAM, more than enough to run Linux properly, and in additional to that it has a processor that easily twice as fast (probably more) than the fastest PC desktop processor available. IBM already has a Linux kernel compiled and running on the Cell, so this notion of PS3+LINUX is -today- far more reality than fiction. With its built-in hdd (once, maybe still, rumored to ship -with- linux preinstalled) the PS3 could be a fully functional, very useful computer.
- When you look at it (or at least when I do) for $500-$600 you would have seriously powerful PC, Console, and Blu-Ray disc player. I realize that's more than some people want, but it's everything I'd like to see in the system.
PS3 is a very expensive console. $599 or $699. That's a lot of money for a console. Now, what Sony should do is to provide a lot of functionlaity for that money. What could they do?
a) Make it a good DVD/Blu-Ray player. Yes, PS2 and Xbox can play back DVD's. But they are not very good at it. Make the PS3 actually a good DVD-player, and consumers have no reason to buy a separate DVD-player.
b) Make it a computer. People still need computers. And while Cell might not be ideal for general-purpose computing, it should still be fast enough. So put Linux in the PS3, make it easy for the consumer to use it. They could use it for email, surfing, word-processing and the like. So the consumer has no need to buy a separate computer that costs several hundred dollars. And, this way Sony can attack Microsoft on it's home-turf. If the PS3-Computer" fails, no big deal. If it succeeds, it hurts MS where it counts (Widnows and Office. Less money to put to their console-business).
If sony does thosetwo things, they could say (truthfully) that Why buy a console that costs 499 dollars, and then buy a computer that costs 699 dollars and DVD-player that costs 109 sollars, when you could jsut buy a PS3 for 699 dollars and be done with it?
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.