Slashdot Mirror
Novell Delivers Device Driver Breakthrough
An anonymous reader writes "Novell today announced a new Linux device driver process to make it easier for third party device driver writers to integrate their drivers with SUSE Linux." From the article: "The new driver process allows customers to obtain drivers independently of Novell® kernel updates and supplies a straightforward approach third parties can use when developing device drivers for Novell's SUSE® Linux Enterprise products. The new Linux driver process developed by Novell allows hardware and software vendors to provide Linux drivers and driver updates for their products to customers directly and transparently, in a way that is completely integrated with SUSE Linux Enterprise delivery and support."
The Article is a merketing blurb, anybody knows how it's actualy implemented?
... it is generally the result of a badly written 3rd party device driver, and the inability of the OS to protect itself from that driver. Have Novell delivered a major breakthrough here (as the article suggests) or the beginnings of a major headache?
I know there will be replies about how the architechure of Linux protects us from some of the risk, but in reality 3rd parties will circumvent any device driver model in an effort to make their device perform optmally, even at the expense of the wider platform.
Geez, is /. so short of news that it accepts corporate press releases? "Driver breakthrough" - you can load a third party driver from a floppy. Well knock me down.
they are designed to hide bugs in the hardware/firmware,
I was always under the impression that the specs were closed to ward off copycatting from competitors.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
It is a breakthrough, because having a shitty, flaky, unfixable and unsupportable binary-only driver is better than having no driver at all. Don't use it if you don't like it. As someone who writes closed source device drivers, I sincerely welcome this. Now, if someone just convinced Linus to add this (or similar functionality) to the "vanilla" kernel...
"It is a breakthrough, because having a shitty, flaky, unfixable and unsupportable binary-only driver is better than having no driver at all."
No, its not. See how when you want to use an ethernet adapter, you just put it in the machine and it works? See how when you want to use a wireless adapter, its a huge hassle, barely works, and will likely cause you machine to randomly hang?
If people keep accepting binary only shit like this, then the situation will just keep getting worse. Soon, you won't be able to buy any hardware that works, you will only be able to buy hardware + crappy driver for some OS you may or may not use. Demand documentation so the people writing the kernel can write the drivers, and everything will work smoothly and without any hassles, in any OS.
Copycatting what? What memory address to write what bytes to? What is copying that going to accomplish? All it would do is let your competitors write drivers for your hardware, it wouldn't help them copy your hardware in any way.
This argument is repeated time and again here on Slashdot and the fact is it is rediculous. Want to know why? Because Novell's customers want it. In fact, they want Suse Linux to run on whatever white-box thrown-together-component list they decide, and having vendors supply drivers to reach that goal makes Novell a more attractive company.
Novell isn't /. - this is the real world. Compatability = greater acceptance = better marketing position & happier customers = more sales. Period.
Excuse my speling.
Making The Bar Project
i hope you burn in hell for writing closed source drivers.
... this isn't 1998 anymore, I understand the need for open source drivers so you can troubleshoot issues with both them and the kernel but, come on now, grow up - either figure out a way to make it so binary only drivers aren't a problem with stability, make a certification process, or forever be stuck with having 1/3rd the devices supported, 1/3rd supported poorly, and 1/3rd oblivious to your existence.
Sad thing is, this probably isn't a troll. You sound like most of the kernel developers who refuse to make a stable API or ABI.
You wonder why Linux has such shitty support? Your attitude and the attitude of the devs
I'll bite, troll, cause I'm bored and you're an especially easy target.
/etc where everything related to a system-wide configuration belongs.
Before this, there was almost no hope at all to get a working driver installed in less than 4 hours.
Wrong. There are many options to getting a driver in less than 4 hours. I did it just this morning (dropped the rt2500 driver back to the pre-smp ebuild). Time? Including compile, less than 5 minutes. I even restarted the network interface without dropping any existing ssh connections.
For all the people out there that are about to go on about apt-get or some stupid distro, here [sic] this: give it up.
See, a distro is a kind of linux operating system thingie, and a apt-get is a package management system thingie. Google is your friend, try looking up concepts once in a while.
Your "points":
We need to get a truly working pluggable driver model.
The content of your post clearly presents the fact that you are not part of the "we" here.
We need to have a registry to track applications, and their installation paths, and installation parameters. (This will help with the install, uninstall, and dependency headaches)
Linux needs no registry. Refer to
We need a unified configuration system and configuration user interface.
There are several: xterm + vi, aterm + emacs, konsole + nano, the combinations are nearly endless!
We need a great GUI development IDE
Again, several. The one that rocks the most IMO is KDevelop for GUI stuff. Emacs works for everything else.
We need to not release products with 200 dependencies that change every 4 weeks
Reference? Oh, wait, no, that sounds like hyperbole.
The only thing Linux has over other operating systems right now, is price.
You meant to say:
The only things Linux has over other operating systems right now are price, power, flexibility, and freedom.
As my children (who use Linux) would say: Go away little boy, and take your long nose with you.
Linux got to where is is precisely because of the kernel devs not producing a stable API. Think about it, what would the kernel be if it was stripped of all the drivers? Not much use at all.
Now that Linux has a large userbase, you're arguing that is ok to relax that since some user wants binary drivers that just work. However, when you go that route, it's hard to go back because everybody *expects* the ABI to remain stable. Instead of improving the kernel, the devs will waste time sorting out ABI issues; not the best use of time.
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
It just pisses me off how Novell might be very successful in this, and if they are, it has no benefit for Linux (as in, you know, the free/open source side), and quite possibly a negative effect. All this does is benefit Novell, and once companies write up their drivers, where are the rest of us that use real Linux left? In the dust, and possibly moreso, because now the companies can say with a smile on their faces that they support Linux, and may not ever bother to turn back and support the rest of us. Thanks Novell, for giving the world a stabler Windows.
You know, the argument about closed-source drivers and "the idea of open source" is getting old. If I'd want a religiously open system, I'd be running debian. Oh well, I couldn't play the games I paid for, but I'd be running a 100% GPL'ed box, so I should be happy with it, right? Since those games are closed source as well, that would be fine, ok, right? What I want is a system that does what I want, the way I want it to (which in my case happens to mean linux, YMMV), and which lets me do the things I want to do (which in my case means installing the closed-source nvidia drivers).
Sure. Then explain why there are so many OSS projects where you can find bugs in the respective bugtrackers that haven't even been acknowledged after several years, and three-figure number of comments from people who stumbled over the same thing? Hunt the mozilla and kde bugtrackers for any number of examples.
To sum it up, I'm happy with linux as it is, and I'm perfectly fine with the one or other closed-source thing on my box, be it a driver, or any commercial app like moneyplex or the dozen or so games where I've happily bought the linux version.
oh, and a word to the plan9 advocates... I can't see any reason to install that. any at all. Sounds like BeOS to me... good idea, dies (or shrinks to insificance) due to lack of apps and users. Happened to OS/2 as well, which was a shame.
This is only a new process for Novell to deal with vendors to make kernel upgrades more seamless to customers. I don't think this is going to cause all the vendors to release binary only drivers, but for the ones who do, SUSE will now work better with kernel updates. Personally, every system I use has an nvidia card in it and a marvell sata controller which only has a binary driver, about 75 systems btw... So, what kernel am I running? Oh, the stock one that came with red hat el 4, have there been security updates? YES, have I updated NO! because that is 75 systems I have to boot into text mode, rebuild the Nvidia drivers, rebuild the sata drivers, and reboot back to X windows... and that's if everything just works... I've had it not work before. Then of course you have to wait at least 2-3 weeks after red hat releases a new kernel before nvidia publishes the new version of the driver, and all in all its just a huge headache.
Binary only drivers are here to stay folks, we aren't going to abolish them, and as long as Linus is in charge of the kernel we aren't going to get a stable ABI, so, kernel update means recompile all your drivers... Any way to ease this burden is a GOOD THING because it encourages people to update their kernels. upgrading a kernel right now on any somewhat complex system, or anything that might not be 100% supported (IE wifi, some network cards, some storage devices and video cards) means a huge headache every single time a new kernel is released (by the major vendors at least 6 times a year). I estimate that if I were to keep my system updated it would take an additional 6-700 man hours per year, that is 30,000-35,000 dollars at $50/hour (which is low), you have to figure 1+ hour per system 75 systems, 6 times a year...
We need to get a truly working pluggable driver model.
I really hope you mean a driver abstraction layer. In that case, I tend to agree. That is more or less what we have with ndiswrapper, btw.
We need to have a registry to track applications, and their installation paths, and installation parameters. (This will help with the install, uninstall, and dependency headaches)
Give me a break. Have you ever heard of package managers ? A registry, on the model you are implying, is just stupid.
We need a unified configuration system and configuration user interface.
We do. It is called VI. People really should not try driving a car without knowing how to drive. Why should computers be different ?
Half of the problems I have seen happening on Windows servers happen because it is "so easy to configure", so any half-moron think he can do it.
Configuring Windows is not easier than configuring Linux, at least if you want to do it correctly. It is just easier to pretend you know how to.
We need a great GUI development IDE
Like Eclipse ?
We need to not release products with 200 dependencies that change every 4 weeks
What distro are you using ? You should try an enterprise oriented one some day. I suggest CentOS, but YMMV.
The only thing Linux has over other operating systems right now, is price.
The Flexibility open source should provide is hampered too much by the above listed problems.
Or by people who have no idea what they are talking about making statements like those.
Seriously, except for your first point, which is partially true, the others are just nonsense.
morcego
Besides, it's not like they are lying: the drivers allow you to use their hardware with Linux, what should it be called if not "Linux support"?
Can I use the hardware with Linux on ARM? MIPS? PowerPC? Do they guarantee feature and speed parity with Windows drivers? Will they continue to support the hardware, or, like ATI, will they only bother to support their most recent hardware?
At best it's monogluteal Linux support.