Vista Beta 2 has Major Problems

WebHostingGuy writes "In a review by Gary Krackow from MSNBC who reviewed Vista Beta 2 over the last week he had very disappointing problems. "for me [it] was one of the worst operating system experiences that I've ever encountered." Built-in audio and wireless didn't work on his Levono laptop. It took four days to get the first installation."

Comments

A number of "familiar" features...

[192939495969798999]

From TFA:
Beta 2 is a good looking operating system with a number of new features, which will be familiar to you if you've played with recent versions of Apple's OS X.

Or, in other words, features that were lifted/copied/etc. from OS X. It looks a lot like certain Linux desktops I've seen with all those sidebar applets... can't imagine what kinda hardware spec you'd really need to keep all that crap running. Can you even imagine what "sidebar" spyware will do to systems? Probably inescapable installs of pole dancers and casino crap... I rue the day!

Re:Maybe Not So Fair?

[thebdj]

Ever installed Linux in a laptop? I think you'll find that the scavenger hunt for drivers is similar to what Gary experienced.

I have installed Linux on my Dell Latitude 8600 twice once with Mandriva '06 and the other time Fedora Core 3. I never had this mystical hunt for drivers you speak of. My laptop actually worked right out of the install. I had to do more drivers work on it the one time I installed Windows.

While I will admit, using a laptop for a test install of a beta is a bad idea it isn't the worst thing ever. Windows is notoriously bad for driver support and I have had to install drivers for an FA311 after installing Windows (I think it was 2k) and the FA311 by Netgear has to be one of the most common Network cards ever.

Of course, default video card drivers in Windows also suck. So even if there is a driver installed you still need to go get the "real" ones from ATI or nVidia. So, please do not attribute this problem to simply a beta install or a problem common with Linux and laptops.

He might be a bit biased, but the last article you link he does complain about the sound quality, so it is not like he is a mac fan boy who will sing their praises even when something is wrong. Also, he works for MSNBC...you do remember what the MS in that stands for right? I mean if he leaned anyway you'd think it would at least be to the M$ side. By god, can't someone just have opinions anymore without being f#cking biased one way or another?

Re:Awww, look at the youngster

[DaveV1.0]

Or when someone would forget to do planned maitenance or clean the line printer and it would catch fire.

Yes, that lp package error message "printer on fire" esixts because that actually used to happen.

Re:Article Summary

[AKAImBatman]

If Vista doesn't run on laptops, then Microsoft will be cut out more than 50% of all new computer sales.

Vista will run on laptops. But like with most XP machines today, custom drivers will be built to handle all the embedded hardware. The problem here is that Vista is in beta, ergo it has very little driver support. Thus if you want to review a beta (as opposed to doing bug reporting for Microsoft) then you should use a more standardized system. i.e. A Desktop.

Make no mistake. I am making no assertions about Vista's capabilities. I'm sure that it will follow the tradition of Windows just fine (i.e. Some stuff is good, some stuff is bad.) The only assertion I'm making is that the reviewer's strategy is flawed.

Re:Article Summary

[ceejayoz]

There's a vid on YouTube with Microsoft's Vista presentation, but with the visuals replaced with a screencast of OSX. Here it is, in three parts:

http://www.maclive.net/sid/134
http://www.maclive.net/sid/135
http://www.maclive.net/sid/136

Re:Article Summary

[happyemoticon]

"there's too much custom hardware" is no excuse for a miserable OS installation experience

I totally agree with you. However, it is probable that Windows XP doesn't ship with the drivers for all but the most common hardware for a reason. I think that since the drivers are proprietary, they would certainly have to get specific permission to distribute them with Windows. Linux enjoys the advantage of having GPL drivers that it can distribute anywhere.

This summary and selective quoting

[mattsucks]

The summary takes the quote "for me [it] was one of the worst operating system experiences that I've ever encountered." directly from the article, making it sound like the author was describing the entire Vista Beta experience.

He wasn't.

The FULL sentence from whence this quote was lifted reads (with my added emphasis):

"Installing Vista Beta 2, for me was one of the worst operating system experiences that I've ever encountered."

Awkward grammar aside, the author is talking about the installation and configuration experience, NOT Windows Vista as an overall OS experience.

I like to bash M$ as much as the next guy, have a mixed network of Windows and non-Windows systems at home, yadda yadda yadda, .. but come on! Save the bias for vacuum tubes.

Re:Article Summary

[Vancorps]

That's because people blasted them for doing that with Windows 9x. They generic drivers screwed up the computers causing BSODs. Now people are bitching because they only include certified drivers with the OS. Am I the only one that thinks this is insane? Is it really that hard to keep custom install CDs with all your in-house drivers on the same media? I use nLite with every new hardware purchase. That is when its a new model with different hardware. My install cd puts all the certified and more importantly latest drivers on the cd so when the install is finished there are no system instabilities from outdated drivers. SATA RAID controllers are the worst for this. I've had firmware upgraded on them and then old drivers don't work and if they work they really don't work well.

My SUSE installs really aren't all that different, I load up the install CD, since the installer has to be able to connect to the Internet to update itself they've included every network card driver they could find. The update then ensures that all the latest drivers and system packages are installed and the end experience is a stable and fast OS experience.

SP2 is not a new release of XP. It does contain a few new drivers but the base is still the same. That is the big difference between how Microsoft releases software and how most Linux distros do. Microsoft keeps it consistent only adding necessities like drive support beyond 160gigs. They have to for their business customers who really don't handle change very well.

So yes, XP was released 5 years ago, it has great hardware support. Dell seems to always put in strange network cards that require additional drivers but they give you a cd with them on it so no big deal. Most everytime I install it the NIC at least is least given a driver that will work. Nforce boards are an exception as they are completely new since the release of XP. Vista hardware support is interest since it appears that the drivers for XP check for XP as the version of the OS rather than specifying it as a minimum. XP drivers should work just fine. Older drivers will not as they need to be signed for the OS to let them in unless you open up the default hardware policy which is fairly easy to do if you know where to look for Windows policy settings.

I think I've said enough, there is a lot of crap floating around, last I checked XP even in safe mode had 256colors and 800x600 res with practically any video card. I'd call that some pretty amazing generic driver support. Now that people can see what they are doing they may shift their focus to making sure people can connect. I don't know but I do know if enough people complain to Microsoft about it then it will happen. That is exactly what happened with the group policy changes to Vista. A lot of changes to SMS and MOM are driven the same way.

Re:~Six Months until go time...

[SpryGuy]

A partial list cribbed from another site (an admittedly Windows fan-boyish site) of the major changes, updates, new features, and enchancements of Windows Vista:

* 64-bit support
* Aero Taskbar and live taskbar thumbnails
* Automatic Backup and hard-disk defrag
* Backup and Recovery Center and image-based backup and recovery
* BitLocker Drive Encryption and Encrypting File System (EFS)
* ClearType
* Games Explorer and new Windows games
* Internet Explorer 7.0 Anti-Phishing, tabs, quick tabs, integrated search, "fix my settings", RSS, protected mode
* Internet Information Server
* Network Center
* Network Projection
* Networking capabilities - new TCP/IP stack, diagnostics & troubleshooting, VPN, peer networking
* Power management
* Remote Desktop
* Service hardening
* Setup and installation improvements
* Subsystem for Unix-based Applications
* Sync Center and PC-to-PC sync
* System Search and file tagging
* Themed slide shows
* User Account Control
* Virtual PC Express
* Windows Anytime Upgrade
* Windows Calendar, Collaboration, DVD Maker, Collaboration, Fax and Scan
* Windows Defender
* Windows Easy Transfer
* Windows Explorer shell
* Windows Firewall
* Windows Flip and Windows Flip 3D
* Windows HotStart
* Windows Mail, and Anti-Phishing support
* Windows Media Center, CableCard support, HD support, XBox360 support
* Windows Media Player 11
* Windows Mobility Center
* Windows Movie Maker, and Movie Maker HD
* Windows Photo Gallery
* Windows ReadyBoost
* Windows Rights Management Services (Windows RMS) client
* Windows Security Center
* Windows ShadowCopy
* Windows Sidebar and Gadgets
* Windows SideShow
* Windows SuperFetch
* Windows Tablet PC functionality and touch screens upport
* Windows Ultimate Extras
* Windows Vista Aero, Basic, and Classic user interfaces
* Windows Vista Fonts, Screensavesrs, Sound Schemes
* WinFX
* Wireless networking capabilities
* XPS document support

And this list doesn't touch on things that are 'internal', like more efficient memory allocation, rewritten kernel, moving of drivers to user level, removal of several required-reboot scenereos, more efficient multi-tasking, etc. You may not care about all of these things, but the sum-total does seem to be a realtively compelling package, providing they don't totally screw it up (and it looks so far like they've totally screwed up the "User Account Control" aspect, but it's possible they'll fix that before release). It's also true that some of these features will be made available to run on existing XP (like IE7, WMP11, and even the Side-bar). But all of those items will have enhanced functionality on Vista. With any luck, the security of the 'default installation' will be significantly better as well, which will also be a good thing. ANY improvement on that will be a good thing.