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Morfik Defends IP Rights Against Google

ReadWriteWeb writes "Today Morfik came out fighting in defense of its product JST (Javascript Synthesis Technology). Morfik has implied that Google infringed its IP by releasing Google Web Toolkit (GWT) a couple of weeks ago. The reason? GWT bore more than a casual resemblance to Morfik's JST, which allows developers to use a high-level language of choice and have it compiled to JavaScript. GWT is similar, being a Java-to-Javascript translator. These Javascript compiler products are increasingly necessary for companies like Google, with the high use of Ajax on today's Web and the associated complexity of programming in Javascript."

10 of 99 comments (clear)

  1. Sure.. by suv4x4 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    These Javascript compiler products are increasingly necessary for companies like Google, with the high use of Ajax on today's Web and the associated complexity of programming in Javascript.

    There's no associated complexity with programming in JavaScript. There's lack of progress in the language (still no native support of ECMA4 in browser, shame that *Flash* comes with ECMA4 implementation in just two months, before browsers do).

    JS synthesis is a hack anyway. I've seen the code produced by such technologies, and it's crap. You trust your application's well being to the compiler authors with the hope they update it when it breaks in the latest and greatest browser out there.

    The correct way to me is upgrading the JavaScript language itself, and until then, using native JS libraries that can be readily reviewed and edited.

    JS as a language isn't so primitive as to require a Java or C++ compiler to write good and clean code for it.

    1. Re:Sure.. by noamt · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If this was the case we'd know about it: the "compiled" code it pretty easy to open and read (even if it's still a JS spaghetti mess of a code). No info can be hidden inside.

      Ever heard of steganography? I'm not saying they do it, but it absolutely can be done. For example, names of generated variables, functions, etc. can bear (encrypted) information.

      -Noam.

    2. Re:Sure.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you've tried to do anything serious in JavaScript, I'm sure you've noticed that JavaScript implementations in browsers only do cooperative multitasking, and not in a nice way where you could return control to the scheduler in the middle of a task. The only way for a thread to relinquish control is to finish it. That means you can't do anything that takes longer than maybe a few seconds to compute. Waiting for the network is ok, because that's done in parallel, but once control is handed to your script, you have to finish the task within a few seconds or the user thinks the browser crashed because it's going to be unresponsive until your script returns. This is an unacceptable programming environment for anything that isn't just connecting user input to existing fast browser functions (like moving things around on a page, flipping images, etc.)

      The number one thing I would want JavaScript to get is preemptive multitasking or at least a way to return control to the scheduler in the middle of a script. They can make it so that a script has to specifically ask for it. This way the people who don't know how to program thread-safe can still kick DOM objects around, but those of us who want the browser to do more wouldn't have to chop every task into tiny subfunctions, which comes with a huge overhead, is hard to get right and leads to code that is very difficult to maintain.

      The lack of proper concurrency in JavaScript is a huge advantage for Flash and Java, both of which run code continuously while the browser keeps running its own code and stays responsive.

    3. Re:Sure.. by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm a functional (Haskell, LISP) programmer as well as being well versed in OO (C++ & Java mainly) and I've just started my first AJAX project and I've hopped from IDE TO ide including plain vim, Eclipse with ADT & WDT, Mozilla with Venkman debugger and (gasp horror) Visual Studio 2005 and I still find it harder than anything else I've done in terms of code-navigation and debugging

      Word.

      There just *is no* decent environment for doing this kind of stuff (Ajax/DOM). I was actually impressed with Visual Studio as a development tool until I started trying to code some interactive AJAX-style stuff. I'm still using the "2003" version (and won't be upgrading), and if you hop through a few hoops you *can* get it to do some javascript debugging along with IE, but it will stop on any error, and refuse to continue or allow you to edit. You have to stop the debugger, go find the code it complained about, edit, restart, repeat.

      Of course if you want to write for multiple browsers, you have to find another way to debug for mozilla, etc. Firefox with the "Web Developer" extension is *very* handy, and I make extensive use of it as well as "DOM Inspector" and "View Rendered Source Chart", but it's not really like having an IDE, it's closer to trial and error.

      I'm hoping I can move away from .NET after this project - maybe with PHP5 and Eclipse I can come up with a more rational environment for developing this stuff.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
  2. Prior art if there ever was by SomPost · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know of several Highlevel-to-Lowlevel language translators (e.g. Java-toC, Oberon-to-C, you name it) that have been around for decades. Surely, you cannot get a patent for doing the same thing with a different language, can you. Can you?!?

    Compiling something to JavaScript in the browser environment is about as obvious as compiling to C on Unix. Case in point, here are a few other X-to-JavaScript compilers pulled off the top of my head: Python, Prolog, Oberon, etc. Seems pretty obvious to me. Not that that has ever prevented the US Patent Office from granting a patent, of course.

  3. Re:Who cares if it's bogus? by suv4x4 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These guys may be gambling on being able to drag this case out to SCO's epic proportions

    How easily we trust the news today.

    What if I tell you that there's no "case", Morfik doesn't threaten Google with case, Morfik didn't even mention to have claims against Google's kit, and it's all a speculation created by an overly eager reporter who tried to read between the lines in one of Morfik's press releases?

  4. Ok, is this IP infringement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ok, is this IP infringement? Nobody knows!

    Did Google had a close look at Morfik's technology? Yes!

    Does GWT looks a lot like what Morfik has done? Having used Morfik WebOS ApsBuilder for a couple of months, and given the GWT demos and description: definitely YES!

    And please keep in mind Morfik's tool has A LOT more nice things! It is like Visual Studio and like Borland Delphi but for the Web, i.e. true RAD development invironment! And yes, it supports not just Java, but c#, Pascal and VB. It can target both Linux and Windows WebServers. Go see yoursef!

    Sto

  5. Jefferson had no clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    As Thomas Jefferson so nicely put it: "He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lites his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me."

    In the letter of 1813 where this passage appears, Jefferson expresses some skepticism about the general utility of patents:

    "Accordingly, it is a fact, as far as I am informed, that England was, until we copied her, the only country on earth which ever, by a general law, gave a legal right to the exclusive use of an idea. In some other countries it is sometimes done, in a great case, and by a special and personal act, but, generally speaking, other nations have thought that these monopolies produce more embarrassment than advantage to society; and it may be observed that the nations which refuse monopolies of invention, are as fruitful as England in new and useful devices."

    In fact -- though it was little appreciated at the time -- a burst of invention now called the Industrial Revolution was already well under way in England, Scotland, and Wales.

    The specific role of patents in this revolution is open to debate. But it's quite clear that, during that time, Great Britain led the world in the invention of "new and useful devices". When Jefferson claims otherwise, he is completely and totally wrong.

  6. Re:How well does this cross-compilation work? by arevos · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, the grandparent poster has a point. Javascript is a dynamically typed language that makes liberal use of high level functions in more complex scripts. Due to Javascript's fluid nature, it would be difficult for a largely static language like Java to match it exactly. For instance, a class in Javascript is merely a function that dynamically constructs an object. One could roughly map a Java class to a Javascript function, but it would be difficult to the inverse. Java's rigid structure would be disadvantageous in this case.

    Of course, one could just map the Javascript directly to a class file, and I believe Rhino does just that. However, that's not quite what the gransparent said, and even Rhino doesn't allow a flawless mapping from a Javascript class to a Java one (at least to the best of my knowledge). Classes in Java are just too static to entirely accomodate the more fluid Javascript object builder functions.

  7. Re:Struts did it first by Panaflex · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Eight years ago I attended a web conference (at the Infomart in Dallas) about a company that developed a "dual interface" IDE for Java. It let you deploy to traditional GUI clients and web clients. Of course, everybody hated Swing (Or was it AWT at the time.. not sure) but the jist of this is...

    They did generate Javascript code from your Java code.

    Not 100% directly - but it was there for special cases.

    Anyway, it's a lame technology anyway - it seems more akin to a "meta" language and won't buy most people productivity gains because they are a "one off" project anyway that doesn't get a lot of iterative development.

    --
    I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.