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DirectX 10 Only On Vista

Next Generation is reporting that DirectX 10 will only be released for Windows Vista. Those of us puttering along with XP will have to make do with 9. From the article: "The exclusivity of DirectX 10 means that in order to enjoy the high-end features of next-generation GPUs, gamers will need to adopt Vista. Some end users are upset with Microsoft, as the move effectively forces gamers to buy Vista if they do intend to remain serious about cutting-edge PC gaming." It may even be worth it for titles like Crysis.

11 of 216 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Of course. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Fedora" is a hat. "Ubuntu" is not a hat. ;-)

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  2. Re:Of course. by hyperquantization · · Score: 2, Informative

    Marketing may be a corollary, but IIRC, DX10 takes advantage of the new driver model in Vista. so, it's probably technical reasons more than marketing that's driving this decision.

  3. Re:Of course. by WalterGR · · Score: 4, Informative

    I can't figure out whether people actually believe the "Vista is just XP with a new skin" /. meme, or they just propagate it for mod points...

    Either way, our friend Wikipedia has plenty of information about the new features in Vista. In particular, note the following:

    D3D10 functionality will require the Advanced VDDM (Vista Display Driver Model), which in turn will require new graphics hardware. The graphics hardware will be pre-emptive multithreaded, to allow multiple threads use the GPU in turns. It will also provide paging of the graphics memory.

    The Direct3D page has more information.

  4. Old News by throx · · Score: 5, Informative

    Microsoft has been saying DX10 would be Vista only for about a year now. I even blogged about it last September. If the gaming community is only just realizing it then they only have themselves to blame because they're a year behind the devlopment community.

    There's actually very good technical reasons it can't be back-ported to XP and that's because it's changing the entire paradigm of the way the Windows OS works with the video card. The GPU and video RAM are being treated as OS resources that are time shared and paged in and out in exactly the same way the CPU and main system memory are currently. Simply put, this means at the very basic level that the driver interface (WVDDM) for the video cards is very different, and much thinner but as it is a new driver model, XP won't be able to load it.

    So, game development companies are left with the decisions of whether to use DX10 which has a bunch of new features (general purpose geometry shaders that can create and destroy primitives in the pipeline), or maximize compatibility and shoot for DX9 which is being effectively frozen.

    The bigger issue for most is that OpenGL becomes a "second class citizen" on Vista as any use of it outside full screen rendering effectively turns off the entire Aero interface. Users are going to notice this, and apps using OpenGL will get bad feedback for "breaking the interface when they run".

    --

    Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means

    1. Re:Old News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your information on OpenGL on Vista is quite out of date. While the crippled method you talk of is still possible depending on the drivers, perhaps you should keep up with what is happening in Vista development if you're going to be commenting on it.

      From http://blogs.msdn.com/kamvedbrat/archive/2006/02/2 2/537624.aspx:

      "Windows Vista ICD's - this is a new path for 3rd party ICD's introduced for Windows Vista that will work in a way that is compatible with desktop composition. Essentially allowing direct access to the GPU for hardware accellaration, but then having the final surface that appears to be the front buffer to the application actually be a shared surface that gets composed by the DWM"

      I'd say that's a pretty good compromise (though I suppose we'll how it affects performance when it's finally out).

    2. Re:Old News by spongman · · Score: 2, Informative
      Vista disables DWM (required by Aero) in a number of circumstances. i forget the complete list, but the easiest way to disable Aero is to get a DC for the desktop window. with DWM, there is no desktop DC, the desktop is composited on the video card, not in GDI space. apps that need to read bits from the screen need to have the desktop composited by GDI, and for backwards compatibility they disable DWM while such an app is running.

      also, OpenGL apps, which require exclusive access to the video card, will cause DWM to be disabled, since DWM is explicitly designed to share video resources between applications and the current OpenGL drivers do not support this.

  5. Re:*gasp* by BobPaul · · Score: 3, Informative

    DirectX 9 never came to Win98. It was one of the major reasons many gamers upgraded to WinXP. (Well, that and stability).

  6. vista adoption by sentientbrendan · · Score: 2, Informative

    It sounds like vista offers a bunch of API improvements, ala directx 10 and the presentation foundation. What's interesting is how few things *won't* be back-ported.

    WPF is being back-ported to service pack 2 according the the wikipedia article. The powershell has already been released for xp. Directx 10 won't have games coming out for it for quite a while... what features exactly does that leave for vista?

    XP offered a major upgrade in stability, to the point where it's almost on par with most other operating systems, an that was the selling point. What's Vista's selling point? Seriously, after all these years of development, does it have 1 single exclusive killer feature?

    So far, the only thing I've seen are improved themes and hi res icons... I'd heard about built in virtualization in the past, but that hasn't been mentioned for quite a while. Was that dropped?

  7. Re:This is happening right now with XP by edwdig · · Score: 2, Informative

    MS has always had the strategy of selling OS upgrades by artifically requiring them - hell, they've done this since DOS version 5 and "setver". That they would make something Vista-only purely to drive Vista sales is par for the course.

    Setver did the opposite. A lot of software was hardcoded to expect certain DOS versions, often because it hooked into DOS internals, or made assumptions that were not guarenteed to be correct in different versions of DOS. Setver was an MS utility that came with DOS to let you get around those limits.

  8. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Despite all of the microsoft bashing, Direct3D 10 has the potential to be a major inflection point in the 3D graphics industry. The driver model of vista combined with the new rendering methods of d3d10 reduces the cpu time of rendering by approximately 50%. This allows for many more primitives to be drawn on the screen without the added cost of context switching between cpu and graphics engine.

    Also, d3d10 introduces a general purpose graphics shader which can be used to create vertices. In directx9 and below, all new polygons had to be created on the cpu and transfered to the graphics card. Allowing the graphics card to create vertices can drastically speed up existing algorithms such as stencil shaders (Even though they are so 2 years ago JC), and allow more efficient algorithms.

    D3D10 also adds a unified development model. This means that the vertex shaders, pixel shaders, and geometry shaders all can execute the same commands and do texture lookups. Once again, this is an advantage of D3D10 over directx9. Many of these things were exposed during earlier generations of directX and opengl through extensions; however, for a card to be d3d10 compliant, it has to be fully compliant, and implement all of the instructions in the language (no more caps, developers rejoice).

    Existing d3d9 code running with d3d10 can gain as much as 20% performance based on the new rendering methods, which alone is a reason for a dev to start coding towards d3d10. Whether upon release, performance benefits are the same scale is yet to be seen, but there are definately advantages strictly for 3d rendering in d3d10 over earlier versions of directx and opengl.

    Finally, GPGPU applications will be able to take advantage of many of the new features. For one, d3d10 requires virtualized memory. This will mean large datasets can be loaded onto the GPU without having to worry about running out of local memory on the card. Also, the precision on d3d10 cards is required to be 32 bit precision (not sure, but might be IEEE-754 standard).

    So realistically, there is no reason devs have to start using new features, but its their nature to use the best tools available to them, and upon Vista's release, d3d10 will be the best graphics api from a feature and performance standpoint.

  9. There is a legitimate reason for this. by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Vista's new Display Driver Model. It allows for a hardware accellerated desktop environment, in addition to multiple hardware accellerated windows (ie two videos can both be playing hardware accellerated at once) and the ability for GFX cards to have virtual memory.

    DX10 is built to take advantage of these new improvements. If they backported it, they'd have to do one of the following:

    - Don't take advantage of the new DDM in Vista, and just do an incremental update.
    - Backport the entire DDM to XP. This will result in less reasons to buy Vista anyways.

    Option 1 was clearly unacceptable if MS wanted to make advancements in PC gaming software tech (stuff). Option 2 is clearly unacceptable from a business standpoint.