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DirectX 10 Only On Vista

Next Generation is reporting that DirectX 10 will only be released for Windows Vista. Those of us puttering along with XP will have to make do with 9. From the article: "The exclusivity of DirectX 10 means that in order to enjoy the high-end features of next-generation GPUs, gamers will need to adopt Vista. Some end users are upset with Microsoft, as the move effectively forces gamers to buy Vista if they do intend to remain serious about cutting-edge PC gaming." It may even be worth it for titles like Crysis.

15 of 216 comments (clear)

  1. Of course. by TheSpoom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From a marketing standpoint, this is the only way Microsoft is going to get a lot of people to buy their new OS.

    I can only speak for myself but from what I've heard, Vista will offer few enhancements over XP that I really need in an OS. Better searching? I don't particularly need it, but Google Desktop. IE7? Not a chance, Firefox has me hooked and has many more features. "Gadgets"? No thanks, but Konfabulator (now Yahoo Widgets) if you wanted them.

    Additionally, I'm still concerned about Microsoft's (and other companies') plan to control our PCs, even though we haven't heard a lot about it recently. So by the time Vista comes out, I'm likely going to move over to a Linux distribution, probably either Ubuntu or Gentoo, and this is really the only thing I might still want out of Windows: gaming.

    This move smacks of Microsoft-brand lock-in, and it still won't convince me to move.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
    1. Re:Of course. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Fedora" is a hat. "Ubuntu" is not a hat. ;-)

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    2. Re:Of course. by WalterGR · · Score: 4, Informative

      I can't figure out whether people actually believe the "Vista is just XP with a new skin" /. meme, or they just propagate it for mod points...

      Either way, our friend Wikipedia has plenty of information about the new features in Vista. In particular, note the following:

      D3D10 functionality will require the Advanced VDDM (Vista Display Driver Model), which in turn will require new graphics hardware. The graphics hardware will be pre-emptive multithreaded, to allow multiple threads use the GPU in turns. It will also provide paging of the graphics memory.

      The Direct3D page has more information.

    3. Re:Of course. by plover · · Score: 5, Insightful
      My hardware is definitely up to the task of running Vista without spending more money, but I'm not upgrading for the simple reason of "Treacherous Computing". I will not be a party to the erosion of my rights to do whatever I want with my own computer. It's not that I'm a pirate: I do not download movies or music simply because I think it's wrong to do so. However, I do not agree with the latest EULA that came with Windows Media Player because it's too onerous, and so I have not ever clicked "I agree" to the install package. (Winamp and VLC continue to serve me just fine.)

      If this means no more software is available to me because I won't upgrade, then I guess I won't be buying any of it. At $50 USD / video game, producers will need to think long and hard before releasing any "Vista Only" titles. (Hell, some are still releasing titles that can work on Windows 98.) Would you risk the revenue of a ten million dollar title betting on Microsoft's ability to pimp their newest OS? Are you going to be the one to explain to your boss "It only sold 200,000 copies because the guys who pirate software won't move to Vista."

      OS lock-in can work both ways. Let's play this one to our advantage. Boycott Vista.

      --
      John
  2. Face it people by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 3, Funny

    You'll all get your copies from work.

  3. I am not really a Microsoft fan, at all, by aftk2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    much more like an Apple zealot, which is why I'm as surprised as anyone about what I'm about to write.

    But, really, I don't really see anything wrong with this, nor do I see it as all that different from what Apple has done with its various releases of OS X. For example, Tiger introduced all sorts of cool new developer functionality, like Core Data and Core Video (I believe Core Image was already present in some capacity in Panther, but I may be getting my APIs mixed up). These were/are great for developers, but the side effect of them being used means that the resulting apps are Tiger-only.

    Isn't it essentially the same with Vista and DirectX? Certainly, it's a pragmatic, business decision - but it's hard for me to fault Microsoft for it.

    --
    concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
  4. Crazy Talk! by Slugburn · · Score: 5, Funny

    What! This is crazy talk! You mean I'm going to need the newest OS to play the newest games on the newest hardware. Has the world gone insane?

  5. Looks like I'll get Spore on the Wii then by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 3, Insightful

    if they force me to buy Windows Vista to use Direct X 10, then I'll just wait until the come out with the Wii version, cause I'm not upgrading to Vista.

    Personally, I think this is a bad decision by them, but I'm sure Microsoft made some kind of deal that worked for them.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  6. Games market? by HunterZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    (side note: this is old news - I heard of it at least a week or so ago)

    What does this mean for the games market? It seems to me that few developers/publishers are going to want to limit themselves to only a portion of their current market by developing a DirectX 10-only game - at least not until Vista is on well over half of Windows machines, which is likely to take a couple of years. This is especially likely considering the current cutthroat state of the PC games market, where the bar to entry in the top-sellers list is extremely high (not to mention that it's dominated by innovation-fearing publishers who would rather spend their money marketing recycled games built on DirectX 9 than fund a whole new engine for a DirectX 10 game).

    My prediction is that only a few DirectX 10-only games will be seen in the first year after Vista's release, and most of them will be mediocre Microsoft titles. The only other thing I can think of is if a game could be made that takes advantage of DirectX 10 when available but falls back on DirectX 9 otherwise; in this case, I'd expect to see a handful of FPS games touting optional usage of DirectX 10 features.
    --

    On the user end of things, most people aren't going to rush out and buy a new OS. Most people aren't going to know whether Vista will run on their system, much less what the advantages/disadvantages would be, so they will simply wait until their current system gets too old and will have Vista pre-installed on their next PC.

    I'm guessing that a lot of people will be upgrading within the next year, though, as I've seen indications that a large number of people are, for example, still using early AMD64 CPUs and GeForce 5xxx and 6xxx video cards.

    --
    Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
  7. Old News by throx · · Score: 5, Informative

    Microsoft has been saying DX10 would be Vista only for about a year now. I even blogged about it last September. If the gaming community is only just realizing it then they only have themselves to blame because they're a year behind the devlopment community.

    There's actually very good technical reasons it can't be back-ported to XP and that's because it's changing the entire paradigm of the way the Windows OS works with the video card. The GPU and video RAM are being treated as OS resources that are time shared and paged in and out in exactly the same way the CPU and main system memory are currently. Simply put, this means at the very basic level that the driver interface (WVDDM) for the video cards is very different, and much thinner but as it is a new driver model, XP won't be able to load it.

    So, game development companies are left with the decisions of whether to use DX10 which has a bunch of new features (general purpose geometry shaders that can create and destroy primitives in the pipeline), or maximize compatibility and shoot for DX9 which is being effectively frozen.

    The bigger issue for most is that OpenGL becomes a "second class citizen" on Vista as any use of it outside full screen rendering effectively turns off the entire Aero interface. Users are going to notice this, and apps using OpenGL will get bad feedback for "breaking the interface when they run".

    --

    Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means

    1. Re:Old News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your information on OpenGL on Vista is quite out of date. While the crippled method you talk of is still possible depending on the drivers, perhaps you should keep up with what is happening in Vista development if you're going to be commenting on it.

      From http://blogs.msdn.com/kamvedbrat/archive/2006/02/2 2/537624.aspx:

      "Windows Vista ICD's - this is a new path for 3rd party ICD's introduced for Windows Vista that will work in a way that is compatible with desktop composition. Essentially allowing direct access to the GPU for hardware accellaration, but then having the final surface that appears to be the front buffer to the application actually be a shared surface that gets composed by the DWM"

      I'd say that's a pretty good compromise (though I suppose we'll how it affects performance when it's finally out).

  8. Re:Of course. or why I have insufficient memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comparing an instance of an OS running as a guest in VMWare to an actual installation "on the bare metal" with equally limited memory should be considered cheating. The host OS will buffer read and write requests to the VMWared OS's swap file in any leftover free memory, so the penalty for swapping is drastically reduced.

  9. Re:*gasp* by BobPaul · · Score: 3, Informative

    DirectX 9 never came to Win98. It was one of the major reasons many gamers upgraded to WinXP. (Well, that and stability).

  10. Inevitable by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ah, I've seen this coming for ages. The PC games market is bouyed up by those who stay on the cutting edge only - your average Joe doesn't stand a chance of having a PC that you could run a modern game on... take a random family with a PC and a random game from the full-price shelves and see how much fun it is to get it working at a decent speed.

    I'm getting away from MS as much as I can because of crap like this. My computer, my rules... you wanna force rules on me, you don't come onto my computer. I just can't be bothered to play about with MS-based computers any more just to get a poxy game to run.

    I don't care whether or not it offers new features or is given away free in cereal or everyone else in the world uses it, I'm keeping MS stuff strictly away from my own machines. I didn't want DirectX but numerous upgrades were forced on me by the games I wanted to play, and many of the upgrades killed performance or broke the install.

    Each time, I still ended up with a game that performed better under OpenGL (almost any Quake/Half-Life based game for instance) or could EASILY have been replicated without using any sort of acceleration library satisfactorily (Age of Empires II springs to mind - nothing in it that NEEDS DirectX and still a massive performance slog through any sort of WINE or similar program and for what? A 2D RTS that shouldn't need ANY fancy stuff to do it's job - hell, DOS versions of Command & Conquer on an old Pentium 133 did the same stuff in similar resolutions without coming NEAR the CPU time used for AOE just to draw a screen on a 1GHz)

    I work with MS systems all day long, spending half my time working around stupid quirks and things that should have been in the OS since day one. I get paid to do it there so I tolerate it and almost nothing uses DirectX, even though I work in primary schools. I don't tolerate the amount of setup needed to get a game running at home any more. Those machines that I have reserved as Windows "consoles" are treated as if they are plastered with strict disclaimers:

    - Games only. Do not use for serious work.
    - And old games at that, unless you feel like upgrading everything to get there and spend hours chasing patches, upgrades, updates, firewalls, drivers and controller setups just to play a crap game that you'll uninstall within a week.
    - And even if you do that, there's no guarantee that tomorrow the game won't work because of an update, a new requirement, or something else killing performance to the point where it's unplayable.

    In computing terms I'm now firmly considering myself an old fogie and haven't bought a game in a shop for years (unless you count a 50p copy of Warcraft in a local bargain bin), certainly not one I enjoyed playing.

    I recently sold off about 75% of my back-catalogue on eBay because I realised I would NEVER play them again - some still had the wrappers on, a surprising amount had been played once and then uninstalled (Black & White, for instance, which I bought based on hype, played through until my creature was taken away from me and then promptly uninstalled... my brother did the exact same when I lent it to him afterwards). I'm sticking with my favourites and re-living some of the classics. Emulators, DosBox and remakes all the way.

    If I want anything else, anything newer, I will buy a console. An old one at that. Secondhand with so many games bundled in that I could play forever, all for the price of a single full-price new PC game. If I can't afford a modern console and one game, I won't be able to afford the money for a PC that could run a modern game well enough, or the time to get it working, certainly not when you take into account how much I'd use it for because it WOULD be JUST a console in a fancy wrapper.

    I decided a few years ago to not chase the latest and greatest and to stick to what's fun. Counterstrike is the only thing I can't really do on any other OS (My Linux PC's are just too slow to run it even under WINE but, strangely enough, more

  11. There is a legitimate reason for this. by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Vista's new Display Driver Model. It allows for a hardware accellerated desktop environment, in addition to multiple hardware accellerated windows (ie two videos can both be playing hardware accellerated at once) and the ability for GFX cards to have virtual memory.

    DX10 is built to take advantage of these new improvements. If they backported it, they'd have to do one of the following:

    - Don't take advantage of the new DDM in Vista, and just do an incremental update.
    - Backport the entire DDM to XP. This will result in less reasons to buy Vista anyways.

    Option 1 was clearly unacceptable if MS wanted to make advancements in PC gaming software tech (stuff). Option 2 is clearly unacceptable from a business standpoint.