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Slashback: ASIMO History, CSIRO WiFi, Net Neutrality

Slashback tonight brings some corrections, clarifications, and updates to previous Slashdot stories, including a short history of Honda's ASIMO. Also, Intel bows out of the embedded processor market, Microsoft's USB giveaway fizzles, CSIRO gets close to a WiFi win, lawmakers target MySpace again, and the New York Times weighs in on net neutrality. Read on for details.

A Short history of Honda's ASIMO. Ant writes to tell us that Honda has posted a short overview of the evolution leading up to the ASIMO. The history showcases the progress Honda has made in robotics over the last 20 years. It contains drawings, photographs, specifications, and other information about each prototype.

Intel bows out of the embedded processor market. markrages writes "Embedded.com is reporting Intel is withdrawing from the embedded processor market. From the article: 'The company will stop producing the 8051, 251, 8096/196, 188/186, i960, all versions of the 386 (including the 386EX) and 486.'" The product change notification is also available from Intel's site.

Microsoft USB giveaway fizzles. An anonymous reader writes "If you thought you could get something for nothing from Microsoft. Think again. NetworkWorld is reporting that Microsoft is backing down from the free USB drive marketing promotion they launched last February."

CSIRO close to WiFi win. Trapped Database Adm writes "Australian IT reports that Leonard Davis of the U.S. District Court for the eastern district of Texas issued a Markman opinion, providing 'strong support for CSIRO's position in its patent infringement test case.'" From the article: "The CSIRO claims its patent relates to several wireless standards, and the technology covered by its patent is a standard feature of most notebook computers and many other devices. Many technology companies are refusing to pay up, however."

Lawmakers target MySpace again. ardyng writes "It appears Congressman Michael G. Fitzpatrick,(R-Penn) has introduced a bill to the U.S. House of Representatives that would ban minors from accessing social networking websites such as Myspace, as well as any site that 'allows users to create web pages or profiles that provide information about themselves and are available to other users; and offers a mechanism for communication with other users, such as a forum, chat room, email, or instant messenger. The Bill, H.R. 5319, also known as the 'Deleting Online Predators Act of 2006', is still in its infancy, but in its current form, would forbid libraries from allowing access to such sites as well." (That description would also include the site you're reading now.)

New York Times weighs in on net neutrality. KarmaOverDogma writes "The New York Times' Adam Cohen provides an argument in favor of neutrality on the World Wide Web. Cohen succinctly provides a brief history of the World Wide Web, its creator Tim Berners-Lee's vision of how it should operate, why he designed that way, and the forces moving to create a tiered pricing system of access. From stifling creativity and competition to free speech and innovation, Cohen shows why strange bedfellows have come to favor enforcing the 'Democratic Ethic' of the internet by Legislation."

87 comments

  1. XScale by JanusFury · · Score: 2, Informative

    Isn't the XScale also an Intel embedded processor?

    --
    using namespace slashdot;
    troll::post();
    1. Re:XScale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      From the fine article:
      They're still interested in one segment of the market: ultra-high-end applications that need the power of parts like their XScale and Core Duo, the latter essentially two Pentiums on a chip.
    2. Re:XScale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If memory serves, the Xscale is actually an ARM architecture, so Intel is licensing it from someone else, not build it from scratch like the x86 series.

    3. Re:XScale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If memory serves, the Xscale is actually an ARM architecture, so Intel is licensing it from someone else, not build it from scratch like the x86 series.

      Yeah... and AMD64 is actually an x86 architecture. So what's your point?

  2. ASIMOv? by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 1

    I have always wondered if ASIMO's name was a nod to Asimov and his robotics books...

    1. Re:ASIMOv? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, I think that's kinda obvious, no?

  3. "Lawmakers target MySpace again." by -Brodalco- · · Score: 1

    Myspace is to today as AOL Chatrooms were to the 90's. All the hip pedophiles use MySpace.

    --
    I regret spilling a glass of ginger ale on an achritect!
    1. Re:"Lawmakers target MySpace again." by kfg · · Score: 1

      Go after paedophiles, gag all the paeds.
      Yeah, makes sense.

      KFG

    2. Re:"Lawmakers target MySpace again." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      First they came for the pedophiles and I said nothing because I wasn't a pedophile.
      Then they came for the terrorists and I said nothing because I wasn't a terrorist.
      When they finally came for me, I aghlr ry jmh vmtlkj ryhvmj

    3. Re:"Lawmakers target MySpace again." by grammar+fascist · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm trying to figure out exactly what you are. What comes after pedophiles and terrorists?

      Wait... are you a DEMOCRAT??

      --
      I got my Linux laptop at System76.
    4. Re:"Lawmakers target MySpace again." by iced_773 · · Score: 2, Funny


      Yes, he's a Democrat. Lucky for me, I happen to not be affiliated with any party. However, with global warming going as it is, they may go after the scie

      ++ATH
      NO CARRIER

    5. Re:"Lawmakers target MySpace again." by grammar+fascist · · Score: 1

      I'm highly impressed that your browser anticipated that your line was going to lose the carrier, and post JUST BEFORE it happened, complete with the NO CARRIER message and a bunch of modem-y garbage.

      Is that, like, a Mozilla plugin? I want one that does that.

      --
      I got my Linux laptop at System76.
    6. Re:"Lawmakers target MySpace again." by Total_Wimp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Myspace is to today as AOL Chatrooms were to the 90's. All the hip pedophiles use MySpace.

      You are absolutely correct. Pedophiles definately use MySpace. They also use the carpool lane, the grocery store, a knife every time they want to chop lettuce and even a voting booth from time to time. The sooner we ban all these things the safer our precious children will be.

      TW

    7. Re:"Lawmakers target MySpace again." by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 1
      I'm trying to figure out exactly what you are. What comes after pedophiles and terrorists?

      Er, Windows users?

  4. Solution... by informatico · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The Bill, H.R. 5319, also known as the 'Deleting Online Predators Act of 2006', is still in its infancy, but in its current form, would forbid libraries from allowing access to such sites as well."

    The solution is to force these politians to take vacation 360 out of 365 days of the year to limit the damage and stupidity caused.

    --
    1. Re:Solution... by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but at least the bill title isn't an acronym. I was beginning to think that the House rules no longer allowed the intial letters of the words in the title not to spell something.

    2. Re:Solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry it won't get through... myspace has some pretty powerful friends (like its current owner)... say isn't he the same guy who owns most of the worlds major news networks, the ones which can make life really difficult for politicians... as I say, it'll never get through.

      Hi Rupert!

    3. Re:Solution... by codegen · · Score: 2, Funny
      The solution is to force these politians to take vacation 360 out of 365 days of the year to limit the damage and stupidity caused.

      Reminds me of the first reply in this best of usnet oracle digest. Adapt for congress critter and enjoy.

      --
      Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
    4. Re:Solution... by Xyrus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even better, we should pay them to not do anything at all. At this point, it's better.

      Maybe that's what they really want, so they're purposely screwing things up to the point we just say, "Here, take the money! I don't care! Just don't do anything!"

      We pay farmers not to grow, why can't we pay congress to NOT legislate?

      ~X~

      --
      ~X~
    5. Re:Solution... by d'fim · · Score: 1

      DOPA: The Acronym for Those Who Can Not Spell "D'OH!"

      --
      Adherence to the truth is a form of disloyalty.
    6. Re:Solution... by iced_773 · · Score: 1


      No, no, no. It's probably French, so it would be pronounced "d'Oh".

    7. Re:Solution... by Bodhidharma · · Score: 1

      Seriously, I know there are bad people in the world. I really have to ask, though, how many child predators and pornographers are there? It seems everything is about stopping child pornography and people who prey on children. Just how prevalent is this?

      I have to wonder if politicians are creating bogeys so they can take more control. Video games are making kids violent so we have to control them. The fact that there's no evidence for it is just a technicality. This intarweb thing makes kids vulnerable to perverts. Let's pass some unenforceable law so it looks like we care about kids. That way they won't notice us lining our pockets with PAC money.

      Okay, I'm probably being cynical. I'm sure the people in Washington have everyone's best interests at heart.

      --
      A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
    8. Re:Solution... by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Obviously we need a very minor adjustment to the name for legislative acronym compliance:

      D eleting O nline P redators E nactment of 2006

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    9. Re:Solution... by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Coming up next, the "Deleting Rapists Act of 2007" specifying a 7pm curfew for all females and stating that they must cover their heads and faces with scarves in public and wear non-provocative robes that disguise the shape of their body.

    10. Re:Solution... by AllahsAvatar · · Score: 1

      According to this there are enough in the Netherlands to make a political party.

      --
      No sig for you! Come back, one year!
    11. Re:Solution... by IAmTheDave · · Score: 1
      Seriously, I know there are bad people in the world. I really have to ask, though, how many child predators and pornographers are there? It seems everything is about stopping child pornography and people who prey on children. Just how prevalent is this?

      According to NBC's "To Catch a Predator", about 10 per square foot.

      Although I agree with you. Stop trying to raise my kid for me.

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    12. Re:Solution... by Vulpin · · Score: 1

      What about "DOPA" as in L-Dopa, a drug used to treat Parkinsons (albiet with a host of its own problems). -V

      --
      Email address spamblocked. To reply, kill the rabbit
  5. They aren't leaving - XScale is the future by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If Intel is still making XScale, they are hardly leaving the embedded market. They are just discontinuing processors that these days aren't worth the silicon, commodity low-margin products that other companies make well.

    Bruce

    1. Re:They aren't leaving - XScale is the future by ChocoboKnight · · Score: 1

      Hell yeah. The ATMEL offerings of the MCS8051 architecture are much better and cheaper that what you can find from Intel.

  6. Big Brother!? by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 5, Funny
    That description would also include the site you're reading now.

    Hey! How do you know what website I'm reading right now?

    Oh. Right.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
  7. Banning mnors from social networking sites.. by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If minors are prohibited, how does one prove one is an adult, and perhaps more importantly, does the information required to prove one is an adult provide yet more ways for one's online activity to be tracked?

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:Banning mnors from social networking sites.. by kfg · · Score: 1

      . . .does the information required to prove one is an adult provide yet more ways for one's online activity to be tracked?

      Isn't that the point?

      KFG

    2. Re:Banning mnors from social networking sites.. by tonigonenstein · · Score: 0
      If minors are prohibited, how does one prove one is an adult ?

      Like this
      --
      The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.
  8. From Tim Berners Lee by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "That's not what we call Internet at all," says Sir Tim. "That's what we call cable TV."

    Beautiful line, and summed up so even a politco could understand it.

    1. Re:From Tim Berners Lee by IWannaBeAnAC · · Score: 2, Insightful
      politico: Cable TV is good, the consume^Wcitizens sit there passively absorbing everything that we can feed to them - just gotta make sure we retain sufficient control over the big media

      politico: Hey, this intarweb thing can be used for subversive anti-government messages! Lets make it more like cable TV!

  9. Anti Social Networks by packetmon · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'd like to see a law introduced to combat AntiSocial Networks. You know the ones where the parents don't want to take responsibilities for the actions of their kids they don't bother monitoring...

    The NEW bill, known as the "How About You Pay Attention to What Your Kids Are Doing" would be introduced into congress immediately.

    The bill would use direct as a matter of fact language to define a "getting to know what your kids are doing on the web", which would theoretically force parents to stop making bad decisions and pay more attention to their families.

    "Sites like Myspace and Facebook have opened the door to a new online community of social networks between friends, students and colleagues," "However, this new technology has become a feeding ground for child predators that use these sites as just another way to do our children harm." As stated by a congressman. However, "children under age should not be left alone to use a computer unmonitored. There are plenty of programs available to curtail things from happening. It seems parents don't want to face their responsibilities..." stated packetmon.
    1. Re:Anti Social Networks by kfg · · Score: 1

      . . .the ones where the parents don't want to take responsibilities for the actions of their kids they don't bother monitoring...

      Just hire a private dick to follow them around.

      Ummmmmm, maybe I could have phrased that differently.

      KFG

    2. Re:Anti Social Networks by da.maestro · · Score: 1

      I agree that parents often don't pay enough attention to what their kids do on the Internet. But I would argue that it's often not possible for them to do that. Web filtering software is easily gotten around if you know enough, besides which there is simply too much out there to be able to keep track of it all using any kind of blacklist (which is, let's face it, the easiest method for ignorant* parents to understand, and therefore probably the method they're most likely to invest in). Failing the software option, parents have lives too. They simply don't have the time to watch everything their kids do, online or otherwise. The best thing for parents to do is not to supervise, but to educate their children. That is not to say that supervision is not a good thing. It's an extremely important part of the education process, and it's great for pointing out potentially dangerous situations, what to avoid and what to do about things you consider dangerous or offensive.
      I'm fortunate enough to have a web-savvy dad, and when I was a kid learning to use the Internet, he taught me what I needed to know, then trusted me to look out for myself. I hope I can do the same for my kids some day.

      *By 'ignorant' I mean lacking in knowledge, as opposed to 'stupid', meaning lacking in intelligence

      --
      Every rule has an exception. Except this one. Oh bugger...
    3. Re:Anti Social Networks by speeDDemon+(nw) · · Score: 1

      Why do parents have to try and be 'reactive' and block websites that are questionable, I believe that for underage children they should only have access to websites that the parents have previosly deemed acceptable ala 'white list'. Children do not require unfetted access to the web and I do not see any problem with placing the burden of approving content on the parents.

    4. Re:Anti Social Networks by da.maestro · · Score: 1

      Whitelisting is a better idea than blacklisting, certainly. And parents (usually) know better than most what their child should be allowed to see. But once again, ignorance is the child's enemy, especially if parents don't do their homework when working on a white list, either because they're too busy, or they have more faith in the software than it deserves due to its inherent limitations. For example, kid asks parent "Can you unblock HotKiddies.com for me?" Parent goes "Sure" and proceeds to whitelist it, not knowing that (in our scenario) HotKiddies.com is a child porn site. That's the risk when you put that kind of burden on busy parents, and if we're "thinking of the children," then we have to think of that.

      This aside from the obvious point that if a kid is more technically knowledgeable than their parents, they'll have plenty of opportunities to hack the software and whitelist whatever they want.

      And, of course, the question of what to do in schools and libraries.

      --
      Every rule has an exception. Except this one. Oh bugger...
  10. Nope by geekoid · · Score: 0

    it is actual a nod to Asimov and his robotics books.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  11. Not entirely banning social networking sites by coolhelperguy · · Score: 1
    It's important to point out that the bill in question, H.R. 5319, would not ban minors from social networking sites, as the article implies. In fact, it only requires schools and libraries to take steps to make sure that commercial social networking sites are banned. (Yes, yes, it's still bad - I know of several kids who can only go online at school, and I will be writing to my representative if this appears to be going anywhere, even though/because I am a minor.)

    If you're interested, schools and libraries must:
    "[prohibit] access by minors without parental authorization to a commercial social networking website or chat room through which minors:

    may easily access or be presented with obscene or indecent material;

    may easily be subject to unlawful sexual advances, unlawful requests for sexual favors, or repeated offensive comments of a sexual nature from adults; or

    may easily access other material that is harmful to minors"


    Additionally, a "commercial social networking website" is:
    "a commercially operated Internet website that:

    allows users to create web pages or profiles that provide information about themselves and are available to other users; and

    offers a mechanism for communication with other users, such as a forum, chat room, email, or instant messenger."
    1. Re:Not entirely banning social networking sites by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Right, so all the pedophiles need to do is set up a non-profit website for ensnaring children. The law is obviously aimed directly at MySpace and maybe one or two other startup companies that have not donated to the bill sponsers' campaigns, and not at the actual problem at hand. No doubt the description is carefully written not to include MSN and other established companies.

  12. Deleting Online Act of 2006 by Gnpatton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    'Deleting Online Predators Act of 2006' are you kidding me? How about just 'Deleting everything Online Act of 2006' This bill is FAR too broad? How many websites have a forum? Just about all.

  13. "While supplies last" by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

    Microsoft sent me an e-mail a couple of days ago saying that the offer was available "while supplies last" and intimated that I got in too late, pointing me instead to an online location containing the documents that would have been on the drive. I thought I'd heard of someone getting their drive, but maybe not.

    --
    You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  14. It's impossible, of course. by jd · · Score: 1

    There is absolutely no information you can enter that someone else can't.I'm sure most kids (who want to) have ALL their parents' credit card numbers written down somewhere - and many have probably been asked to use them for online ordering.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  15. ASIMO videos by Ankur+Dave · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here are the actual videos of ASIMO doing things.
    http://world.honda.com/HDTV/ASIMO/tech-recog-mov-o bj-2/

    1. Re:ASIMO videos by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a cultural thing, the Japanese measure how effective a robot is by how polite it can be. They don't actually try to make it do any work. On the other hand, I guess the americans would measure how effective a robot is by how many people it can kill in 5 seconds. So it's not all bad.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:ASIMO videos by clamx · · Score: 1

      I could attend a demo of ASIMO in Paris a few years ago. It was truly impressive, even if we couldn't get a demo of the IA. ASIMO was on the stage and performed various walks and movements and went up and down stairs (and it was fully automated since this prototype of ASIMO need to compute something like 20 seconds before going on stairs). The audience was full of kids that were so impressed that we could hear only silence... and laughter when ASIMO made fun of the presenter from Honda that was also on stage. The new 2004 protoype looks even greater. I can't wait to see how that android can help disabled people.

    3. Re:ASIMO videos by NeuroKoan · · Score: 1

      While in Japan a few months ago, I was lucky enough to make my way to the Honda museum in Motegi and watch a demo of ASIMO. They also had all the other versions, with a little placard describing each one and its advancements. I was throughly impressed and really wanted to stick around for more. The evolution of the ASIMO is truly quite interesting, and I encourage everyone to take a look (if you already haven't).

      --

      "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."
    4. Re:ASIMO videos by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      It is impressive if the goal is "something to gawk at" but if you actually wanna a see a robot doing something useful, go to your local automobile factory. cute-but-useless, what a great thing to waste money on. I hear the current research version of ASIMO will have 2 seperate motors to control its fingers. One for the thumb, one for every other finger. With dexterity like that I would expect it could actually pick up a beer can, although it might be a little heavy for it, so it won't be able to walk with it at the same time.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    5. Re:ASIMO videos by NeuroKoan · · Score: 1

      There is more then just a slight difference between the repetitive motion of an assembly line robot and the algorithms that keep ASIMO from tipping over while running.

      --

      "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."
    6. Re:ASIMO videos by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Yeah, one of them is economically valuable.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    7. Re:ASIMO videos by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      One of them is straight engineering these days, the other is basic research.

      Eventual progress and future economic value is highly dependent on today's basic research.

    8. Re:ASIMO videos by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      I'm all for basic research.. I just don't understand why you would put a hand on ASIMO that has less dexterity than the grippers grounds keepers use to pick up cigerette butts. Where's the research in that? I think ASIMO has shown that the time for solely basic research into humanoid robotics is coming to an end. It's time to see what we've got and the best way to do that is to take the best-of-breed technologies and combine them into one robot, then set that robot some tasks that are practical and useful.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    9. Re:ASIMO videos by Peganthyrus · · Score: 1

      One of them could grow into alien life we made ourselves.

      --
      egypt urnash minimal art.
  16. What is Obscene? by Stoned4Life · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As far as that bill goes, before deciding that material obscene to minors should be banned, how about we decide _what_ is obscene to minors. Isn't this really a morality issue up to the _parents_ not Big Brother? Material described as obscene and harmful to minors is so disgustingly vague, that anyone can come on and say Microsoft.com is harmful to minors. Let's ban that (yay). I don't want legislators in congress deciding what is and isn't obscene for me.

    --
    Stoned4Life
    gen = new Random
    1. Re:What is Obscene? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > I don't want legislators in congress deciding what is and isn't obscene
      > for me.

      They won't. they'll stick the Federal courts with that task.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:What is Obscene? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno. I kinda wish tubgirl and goatse had both been banned before I witnessed them - typing by braille SUCKS.

  17. pas trop gouverner! by Quirk · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Don't govern too much! IIRC the adage not to govern to much is essential to Adam Smith's doctrine of laissez-faire. And Adam Smith's 'The Wealth of Nations' is the handbook of American business; but now it seems that American law makers on all levels are intent on creating the most annally retentive, overly legislated country in the world. I'm guessing the Salem witch trials are soon due for a revival.

    As a Canadian it appears that Americans are getting all the stick and no carrot. While being gagged and bound by unenforcable laws and taxed to support humongous government the American people go without the social programs and safety nets that coutries like Canada enjoy as a consequence of being over governed.

    In the beginning was Adam Smith and things were OK; then came J.M. Keynes, government programs and a chicken in every pot, followed by J.K. Galbraith and the military industrial complex. What you've got going now I haven't got words for, but, better you than me.

    --
    "Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
    Cohen
  18. NN Mediocre article by illuminatedwax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What a mediocre article. He could've at least brought up the "double-dipping" nature of the tiered system.
    At least do some better research:

    The blogging phenomenon is possible because individuals can create Web sites with the World Wide Web prefix, www, that can be seen by anyone with Internet access.

    No wonder my site isn't working: I forgot to add the www prefix!!

    --
    Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
  19. INFORMATION WILL BE FREE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YOU THINK YOU CAN STOP US BY USING LAME-O FILTERS AT SCHOOL AND SHUTTING DOWN PIRATEBAY? THINK AGAIN, YOU *RETARDS*!!!

    MININOVA AND HTTPS CGIPROXY FOR THE WIN! HA HA I WIN YOU LOSE HA HA HA HA!!!!

    I N F O R M A T I O N W I L L B E F R E E!!!!!

    (posted anonymously because I know this is just a semicoherent rant and deserves to be modded 0 at the most).

    Wow, I actually got caught by the lameness filter. That's the first time that's happened to me. Perhaps I should stop reading Slashdot for a while...

  20. net neutrality by caudron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am all about Network Neutrality...the problem is that most of you aren't. There, my shocking intro is out of the way. ;-)

    Seriously though, I'm only half joking. I agree that we must do everything we can to promote the vision of the Web that people like Tim Berners-Lee had at its inception. The problem is that while we want to fight for neutrality in our bandwidth, we are willing to give it up in our protocols.

    For instance, the Sender Policy Framework (SPF) so-called spam solution is being adopted all over the place without nary a complaint. But think about it. Tim Berners-Lee didn't just envision a web of equitable bandwidth, he envisioned a web of peers---a web of end points, all equally valid. What happens when my system is no longer considered a valid end point? Suddenly, we have a network of clients and servers rather than peers. When the SPF process looks to verify that the sender is the one valid smtp server for the mail address' domain (based on either MX or A records), it devalues all non-domain level systems on the web. Peers on the network become clients, fed valid packets from those servers that are approved to pass said packets. The SMTP semantic paradigm moves from Sender>Receiver to Server>Client.

    But no one really cares because there is some belief that this will help reduce spam. It will, but so will turning off our mail clients. Neither is the right solution. The solution is a newer, better mail protocol, many of which have been proposed that DO NOT devalue the peers of the network. Probably one of the better known of the examples is the IM2000 protocol.

    But we'd rather have a network of tiered rights---as long as our bandwidth is balanced equitably we won't complain, I guess. :-\

    Tom Caudron
    http://tom.digitalelite.com/

    --
    -Tom
    1. Re:net neutrality by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 2, Insightful
      For instance, the Sender Policy Framework (SPF) so-called spam solution is being adopted all over the place without nary a complaint.

      Huh? The guy who does the DNS records gets to decide which hosts are allowed to send mail for a particular domain. S/he can break email for that domain in plenty of ways without SPF. And I fail to see how my saying you can't send mail for my domain is breaking the end-to-end model. If you were talking about port 25 blocking, I could agree.

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
    2. Re:net neutrality by Bri3D · · Score: 1

      For some reason I think that removing validity from Russian spam boxes is slightly less of an issue than asynchronous connections, which immediately and undeniably remove the peer-to-peer model which was envisioned.

      The inability to upload data at a reasonable speed has much more of a negative effect on the model of the internet than does checking mail servers for validity.

      While this is an excellent point, I'd focus on the more important (and off-topic) issues first.

    3. Re:net neutrality by caudron · · Score: 1

      The guy who does the DNS records gets to decide which hosts are allowed to send mail for a particular domain.

      Not before SPF.

      Previously, I could run sendmail on my own box and, you know, send mail. I didn't need permission from anyone to have my mail considered equally valid on the net. SPF changes that. It says that only the one "validated" smtp server can send mail and moreover, underlying it is the implicit expectatin that every server on the net should be a paid-for domain, instead of an ip address. Domain names were and are a useful addition to add a memorizable name to an ip range, but this moves us from "domains are useful and nice" to "domain traffic is the only valid traffic". Now some computers on the net are more signifigant to the software than others.

      Remember that the net was intended to be a community of peers, not a client-server environment.

      Tom Caudron
      http://tom.digitalelite.com/

      --
      -Tom
    4. Re:net neutrality by caudron · · Score: 1

      I totally agree that one has more immediate effect, but I just don't want to ignore the other. As William O. Douglas said:

      "As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."

      Our ideals are not often destroyed in one great act, but slowly chipped away until the remnant bears no resemblance to the original and we find it hard to point to any one thing that stole our ideal. This isn't a fight that has only one battle front. That's all I'm saying.

      Tom Caudron
      http://tom.digitalelite.com/

      --
      -Tom
    5. Re:net neutrality by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1
      It says that only the one "validated" smtp server can send mail

      No, you can specify which hosts plural are allowed to send mail, up to and including all the Internet. And if you want to send your mail from tom@192.168.0.1, there's no way to do a SPF lookup anyway. No-one should be rejecting on lack of an SPF record.

      This is the last SPF record I created, meaning the outgoing mailserver is definitely OK, but anywhere is possible.

      foo.ac.nz. 7200 IN TXT "v=spf1 a:mail.foo.ac.nz ~all"

      If your DNS or rDNS is incorrect, or you're sending directly from dynamic IP space, or you don't want to use a hostname, plenty of people will be rejecting your mail without bothering to look up SPF records. I don't particularly like it, but that's the way of things now.

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  21. Banning minors? by O'Laochdha · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I could see banning under-13's (who already require parental supervision), but minors? What does a sixteen-year-old have to fear from a pedophile? Even if this passes (oh, Canada!), it's an absurd smoke-and-mirrors measure.

    1. Re:Banning minors? by remembertomorrow · · Score: 1

      A 16 year old would still be at risk from "stalking" (or abduction, or whatever). Many teens on MySpace have enough personal information on there to be easily located by someone with basic detective skills.

      That is probably the counterargument that would be given.

      --
      Registered Linux user #421033
  22. An idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    also known as the 'Deleting Online Predators Act of 2006'

    I propose the Kill All The Politicians Who Think Up These Fucking Stupid Slogans Disguised As Bill Names Because It Doesn't Make Them Big, It Doesn't Make Them Clever And It Doesn't Make Them Caring, It Just Makes Them Opportunistic Scum Act of 2006.

    Also known as the I propose the KATPWTUTFSSDABN,BIDMTB,IDMTC,AIDMTC,IJMTOS Act, for short.

  23. Are you a pleasure model, AWSOM-O? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not cool, not cool!

    Hey, did that robot just fart?

  24. While we're at it... by sj26 · · Score: 1

    Why not ban kids from going outside? Let's make sure they can't open their text books either because some bad author might have written some rude words!

    You can protect kids as much as you want, but they'll still have to deal with it at some stage.

    I was a kid on the 'net. Fortunatly I was more into the technical side of the net than chatrooms, but my point is that you'd be blocking most of the potential good that kids get out of the internet too.

  25. Re:"While supplies last" -- and the best part is.. by drivekiller · · Score: 2, Informative

    (at least from Microsoft's perspective)
    They have, and can use, all your personal contact information for the price of putting a few documents online. Don't you feel like a sucker?

  26. USB stuff is EXPENSIVE ya know. by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    Wow uhhhh... the response from you guys has been OVERWHELMING... UNPRECEDENTED really... just WOW! And ummm... yeah, ya know, the economy has been kinda harsh lately and times are hard for everyone these days so ummmm... sorry, we just can't send you those USB drives we promised. Sorry.

    Okay, now next on the agenda... what should we do with this $35 Billion cash burning a hole in our pockets? Any suggestions?

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  27. Re:"While supplies last" -- and the best part is.. by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

    I might if I didn't use a spam address and don't especially care about what physical mail gets sent to me, since I opted out of most lists long ago.

    --
    You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  28. How Politicians would like the Internet to be by rnturn · · Score: 1

    Someone else said it in another post: Cable TV. Specifially: The Shopping Network. Web sites would be nothing much more than electronic brochures for companies that want you to buy their wares. Corporations show you their goods on a web site. You contact them and buy their stuff. Any interaction with a web site would be limited to filling out a form with enough information that the company's sales force would know how to reach you. Ultimately, there would be none of that electronic sales folderol allowed via the Internet. Politicians can't figure out how to tax your purchases anyway and we can't allow transactions to go untaxed now can we? Besides, if there are no Internet transactions, think about how much safer your identity would be.


    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    1. Re:How Politicians would like the Internet to be by twitter · · Score: 1
      Ultimately, there would be none of that electronic sales folderol allowed via the Internet.

      And only a few special companies would be able to lease your site to you.

      Some people can't wait until running and contributing to wikipedia or slashdot is as difficult as porn is. Total Suck.

      --

      Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  29. what do you think they do now? by SuperBanana · · Score: 0, Troll
    The solution is to force these politians to take vacation 360 out of 365 days of the year to limit the damage and stupidity caused.

    What do you think they do now? Your average congrescritter spends most of his or her time campaigning, travelling to Iraq (big with voters, see "campaigning"), taking trips to speak or attend meetings (paid for by lobbyists), and so on. Governors like to do it too- the governor of MA, Mitt Romney, has practically been out of office more than he has been in, because he's so busy travelling around the world (literally!) because he wants to be "presidential."

    Check out the voting record of most of these people...half the time they're never around and don't even bother to vote. I seem to recall one was even caught using another's access card (for the voting system) because the other one couldn't be bothered to leave their office. It's absolutely pathetic- they've completely forgotten what their job is. A representative's job is NOT TO GET RE-ELECTED. It is to REPRESENT.

  30. It's about protecting interests not children. by twitter · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If minors are prohibited, how does one prove one is an adult, and perhaps more importantly, does the information required to prove one is an adult ...

    They are going to try to make sites like Wikipedia hard to use, that's the point. Big publishers like the NYT probably don't like the fact that more people visit Wikipedia than them by a large margin. The old TV and radio empire is striking back. They can't compete so they are going to make laws to protect themselves. Netcraft Site Ranking, today wikipedia is 28th and they NYT is 57th. Between my local paper, BBC, Google News and Wikipedia, I don't need Fox, CNN, M$NBC, CBS, ABC and their ilk. Well, those old companies do find daily rotten fillers.

    Say no to this nonsense.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  31. No, it's a feature of his anonymizer. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    See when his facility set up it's anonymizer setup, they knew that it was only a stopgap measure and that the forces of evil would find them anyways, but they wanted to make sure that as much of their last transmission as possible got through while still finding a way to signal to the outside world what happened, so when the anonymizer detects a partial packet containing a post form submission, it adds the NO CARRIER portion, and sends a complete packet on to the website the submission was destined for. Understand now?

  32. Wait... Your children drive? by hackwrench · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Subject line aside, the (rough) equivalents of this using your examples would be:

    No driving in the carpool lane when you have a child in the car, as pedophiles may see them.
    Children may not go to the grocery store where pedophiles may see them.
    No using a knife when there is a child in the room. (a bit harder as a knife is not a place).
    Children may not be in tow when going to vote as pedophiles might see them.

  33. ebay's email by airdrummer · · Score: 0


    *Net Neutrality and the eBay Community: A Call to Action*

    As you know, I almost never reach out to you personally with a request to get involved in a debate in the U.S. Congress. However, today I feel I must.

    Right now, the telephone and cable companies in control of Internet access are trying to use their enormous political muscle to dramatically change the Internet. It might be hard to believe, but lawmakers in Washington are seriously debating whether consumers should be free to use the Internet as they want in the future.

    The phone and cable companies now control more than 95% of all Internet access. These large corporations are spending millions of dollars to promote legislation that would divide the Internet into a two-tiered system.

    The top tier would be a "Pay-to-Play" high-speed toll-road restricted to only the largest companies that can afford to pay high fees for preferential access to the Net.

    The bottom tier -- the slow lane -- would be what is left for everyone else. If the fast lane is the information "super-highway," the slow lane will operate more like a dirt road.

    Today's Internet is an incredible open marketplace for goods, services, information and ideas. We can't give that up. A two lane system will restrict innovation because start-ups and small companies -- the companies that can't afford the high fees -- will be unable to succeed, and we'll lose out on the jobs, creativity and inspiration that come with them.

    The power belongs with Internet users, not the big phone and cable companies. Let's use that power to send as many messages as possible to our elected officials in Washington. Please join me by clicking here right now to send a message to your representatives in Congress before it is too late. You can make the difference.

    Thank you for reading this note. I hope you'll make your voice heard today.

    Sincerely,

    Meg Whitman
    President and CEO
    eBay Inc.

    P.S. If you have any questions about this issue, please contact us at government_relations@ebay.com .