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CyberTerrorism - Reality or FUD?

Random Utinni writes "The director of the U.S. Cyber Consequences Unit (part of Homeland Security) claims that terrorist hackers are poised to create total chaos. He predicts all sorts of scenarios, from changing the formulae for medications to causing cars to explode after a few weeks of driving. Is this guy fearmongering for an increased budget, or is he on to something here?"

33 of 358 comments (clear)

  1. Dem cyberterrerrists by linvir · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's no good burying your heads in the sand. Cyberterrorism is VERY real

  2. TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the term is being used to justify basically anything the american government wants to loegalize to suppress its peoples rights. the reason? who knows..

    1. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by tibike77 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hint: Shift+4. Keep holding.

      --
      By reading this signature you agree to not disagree with the post you just read.
    2. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by kfg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      to suppress its peoples rights. the reason? who knows..

      Power, money, Jesus, hot and cold running hookers.

      I think that pretty much covers it.

      One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong. . .

      KFG

    3. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by ChrisGilliard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD

      Try telling that to the families of the 2000+ people that died on 9/11/01.

      --
      No Sigs!
    4. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by olego · · Score: 3, Informative

      Running. Hookers don't run.

    5. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by Retric · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let's see annual death total from TERRORISM 2000 to 2006
      ~2k from 9/11 + 2.5k in Iraq(Which seems silly but we can add them in if you want...) / 6 = ~750 / year.

      So my annual risk from TERRORISM is about 250,000,000 / 750 US deaths / year or so my risk is around 1 in 333,333 per year.

      Let's compare that to:
      "Normal" Homicide which kills over 20,000 people in the US every year. Which means I am 27 times as likely to be killed by someone in the US vs. a foreign TERRORIST.

      Motor Vehicle Crashes: 26,000+ US deaths / year aka 35x as likely to kill me vs. Al Qaeda, yet I still drive.

      Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity: 365,000 US deaths / year aka 467x as likely to kill me which is why I work out and try to keep a healthy diet.

      Yet we are spending how much to fight TERRORISM?

    6. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by ChrisGilliard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When do people quit using their names and our memories of them to excuse taking our rights and freedoms away. America is being raped by its own leaders.

      I was responding to the statement that "terrorism is fud period". For people that lost relatives in the terrorist attacks, it's more than just FUD period. I said nothing about taking freedoms away, etc. I wasn't even responding to the article.

      And you are just as guilty as our President for spreading your idiotic rhetoric.

      I said nothing about politics. You as a human should be able to see that the previous post was extremely insensative and just plain old not true. Terrorism is more than FUD. If it were just FUD, no one would have died. Even if you hate Bush, etc....you should really think about what you say.

      Its too late, get freaking over it.

      Forget about politics for a minute and just think about what you're saying. It's too late, [your family member is dead], get freaking over it. I'm not trying to justify any policies, etc. I'm just pointing out that terrorism is real. I'm sorry that it's an inconvenient fact, but the truth is the truth.

      --
      No Sigs!
    7. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful
      How much economic damage was caused by those car accidents?
      I don't know, do you? I'd imagine the destruction of hundreds of thousands of cars, and tens of thousands of productive lives cut short each year is extremely costly. Speaking of which, I heard an insurance commercial today claiming that termites cause more damage to homes than hurricanes, tornadoes, and eartquakes combined. But it's hard to care about gradual things, no matter how significant.
      And by 9/11?
      What did the parent say? Terrorism is FUD. I think he meant this Administration actually promotes fear of terrorism, which is arguably true. But here's something that's inarguably true: terrorists terrorize in order to cause terror. Terror itself is an high degree of fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD). The very word "terrorism" places emphacis on emotional trauma to survivors, rather than the direct consequences of violence, because it's the terror, moreso than the destruction itself, that has an impact. That's why crashing planes into buildings is terrorism, whereas selling cigarettes is not.

      I'm not saying we shouldn't combat the terrorists, but I'm saying we should remember than their main weapon against us is fear. Contrast that against, say, the Soviets, whose main weapon against us was hydrogen bombs. I'll take the terrorists any day.

    8. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by misleb · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ahhh! The corpses of the Twin Towers victims. Being waved around loudly on facist poles since Sep-2001.

      Since when has it become fashionable for Polish political extremists to wear corpses? That seems like a pretty big public health problem.

      -matthew

      --
      "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
    9. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "This stone keeps tigers away."

      "Really?"

      "See any tigers around?"

    10. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by Aceticon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Terrorism is real!
      The fear of terrorism is real!

      The importance given to terrorism and the weight of that fear are unreal (even surreal).

      Nobody denies that terrorism exists or that it has affected the lives of several people.
      Then again, lightning bolts are real too and they have affected the lives of several people.

      Still, governments are hardly curtailing people's liberty to go out on a storm or forcing then to wear a chain-mail suit when doing so.

      Yet some people are willing to accept and even agree that, to protect themselfs from terrorism, more and more power should be delivered in the hands of some while at the same time making those that get that power less and less accountable.

      How did we, as members of "democratic" societies, managed to get even the twisted caricature of democracy that we have instead of police states if beyond me.

    11. Re:TERRORISM IS FUD PERIOD by 4D6963 · · Score: 3, Informative
      ~2k from 9/11 + 2.5k in Iraq(Which seems silly but we can add them in if you want...) / 6 = ~750 / year.

      No you should exclude the deaths of americans in Iraq, since I presume you've never been to Iraq and never will (and for the people who do, their odds should be calculated differently). If you calculate the odds for an american to die from terrorism, well normally you should use last year's figure but that wouldn't fun because IIRC from 2002 to now no american died from terrorism on the american territory (correct me if i'm wrong) so let's just use almost 5-year old 9/11 so you can have odds different than 0.

      So with 3,000 death (from wikipedia : "At least 2,986 people were killed in total") for about 300,000,000 people (from wikipedia : "As of July 2006, there are an estimated 298,444,215 people in the United States") in 6 years, you have, provided that we consider that another 9/11 might happen within the next 6 years, which is quite unlikely, 1 out of 600,000 odds of dying from terrorism within a one-year period.

      No good reason to be scared, according to me, but if you're one of the persons who think they are likely to win lottery, you should be crapping your pants.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
  3. Oh please... by Audent · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is that the best they can come up with?

    Attacks on SCADA systems?

    Who puts their vital power infrastructure controls online anyway?

    I cry FUD, and let slip the dogs of mainstream media.

    --
    I am a leaf on the wind
  4. Chicken Littles? by informatico · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Reminds me of the up coming horrors of Y2K that amounted to a few slot machines not working after midnight.

    Although chicken littles can be right once in a while given the sheer number of warnings tossed about, and then no one listens to them when they should have ;).

    --
    1. Re:Chicken Littles? by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe there was no Y2K disaster because people where pooring over code and fixing them before they happened?

      I saw some testing of systems in '95, I can tell you for a fact that they would have failed in some very spectacular ways.

      It's like knowing there is going to be a tidle wave on a specific time. Then building a huge wall to prevent it. Then when the wave comes and the wall prevents people from dying people say "That wasn't so bad, we shouldn't have built the wall"

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Chicken Littles? by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're confusing the cause of the problem with what would have been the results if it had not been taken care of.

      I worked on Y2K remediations that impacted everything from payroll to fire alarm systems. Another was responsible for scheduling medical supply deliveries to EMT rigs. I know people who worked on phone systems (911 dialing, anyone?), hospital HVAC, food storage systems, and water treatment facilities.

      Why no big problem? Because we all worked our asses off, that's why. Calendar roll-forward trials on paralllel copies of the systems produced everything from total failures of HVAC to people not getting paid and medical shipments dying in the freight schedules. Those things were only avoided because they were fixed. Should the people who originally paid for those systems have not cut the corner, or pressed their original engineers on the issue? Sure. But they didn't. Just like the people that designed much of what's still vulnerable today - only instead of the calendar, it's accidents and malice to fret about.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  5. Really... more sabotage than TERROR, isn't it? by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I mean, really, this all sounds more like industrial sabotage than terror. I mean, are you really going to have people running in fear for their lives that... say... the next time they fill up their car, the gas pump might explode? Or that any pill that they take next could be their last?

    Most acts that they're looking at would be one time things, and isolated/restricted in nature. (Also making it easy to identify/avoid/fix.) I can't see that something like this would actually cause terror.

    Again, CyberSabotage. Nothing more.

  6. It's FUD by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It would take an expert insider a lot of work to cause the kind of catastrophes the author is predicting here. Making a bomb is quick, easy way to kill a lot of people, and it gets a lot more media attention. It's also much closer to Al-Quaeda's traditional area of expertise.

    --
    I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
  7. My question... by laughingcoyote · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA:

    "Chatter on Scada attacks is increasing," says Borg, referring to patterns of behaviour that suggest that criminal gangs and militant groups are now fully capable of unleashing such attacks.

    Then especially in the case of terrorists, WHY THE HELL HAVEN'T THEY DONE IT YET? If one of them had a shot at bombing the White House tomorrow, do you think he'd say "Eh...no, I'd rather wait until next week and hope they don't improve security by then."

    This is not fearmongering for money. This is fearmongering for POWER-and the power they're going to shoot for is the power to control the Internet.

    What a hell of an ironic name for that guy, Borg. I think that might tell us about everything we need to know.

    --
    To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  8. Fearmongering for an increased budget by beavis88 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Period.

    1. Re:Fearmongering for an increased budget by Slur · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If only this kind of fear-mongering worked for things that matter on a broader, deeper scale...

      I'm thinking particularly of the incessant decay of the US quality of life due to the usurpation of our systems of agriculture, education, health, and welfare by private interests. The failure to properly develop these systems is leading inexorably to the collapse of the USA. No one is afraid because the frog in the slow boiling pot never knows its predicament till it's too late.

      People should also be trembling at the insane schemes being used to divert of the people's wealth through the "war-funnel" directly into the pockets of a few industrialists, primarily to fund the further usurpation of the people's government by corporatists.

      For some reason, even after the horrors of Nazism, our current brand of Fascism doesn't seem to scare people, even as it undermines and threatens our lives in a thousand subtle ways. The air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, and the society we live in are becoming increasingly dangerous to our own health. Yet no one stirs as their neighbors are snatched up from empty factory floors and sent to foreign lands to be maimed and killed to enrich Halliburton. No one even blinks as petroleum and agriculture collude to foster diseases that keep the pharmaceutical stocks ballooning.

      east timor, petroleum, nafta, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, 9-11, coyness, illegal surveillance, gmo seeds, data mining, mad cow disease, mandatory testing, guantanamo bay, rampant privatization, obtuseness, selling off the commons, executive war crimes, strip mining, the war on terra, faux news, cafta, kissinger, allende, iraq, bunker busters, missing billions, media culpa, torture, abu ghraib, reality television....

      The connections are clear and simple. The machine now bleeds the people, everywhere, without conscience.

      Be afraid, be very afraid.

      --
      -- thinkyhead software and media
  9. Why the hell... by ZiakII · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Think of the control systems for chemical plants, railway lines, or manufacturing facilities. Shutting these systems down is a nuisance. Causing them to do the wrong thing at the wrong time is much worse."

    Am I the only one who is thinking? Why the hell are these things connected to the Internet then? And if its an absolute must why not setup the companies using a system like the US Governments's SIPRNet

  10. on to something here? by dazzawazza · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd like to suggest he is on something rather than on to something.

  11. Terror Via Highway Conditions Sign... by GeneralEmergency · · Score: 5, Interesting



    Many years ago, I worked for a small company that had a contract to service the massive dot matrix signs that are spaced every few miles along the Southern California freeway network.

    As part of the job, we were given a portable ascii terminal to enter test pattern data directly into the sign controller. Just for fun, we held an internal contest to think up 'What was the worst possible thing that we could type into the portable terminal for posting over the freeway at rush hour'.

    The winner?

    "INCOMING NUKE ATTACK - EST 15 MIN"

    Just imagine the bedlam .

    --
    "A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
    GeneralEmergency
    1. Re:Terror Via Highway Conditions Sign... by NSObject · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not as scary as Klaatu Barada Nikto.

    2. Re:Terror Via Highway Conditions Sign... by esmrg · · Score: 5, Funny

      If I had been driving along and seen "INCOMING NUKE ATTACK - EST 15 MIN", I would not have believed it, because - those signs are never correct.

      I would have expected the nuke attack to start in about 30 to 45 min instead.

  12. End of internet (and world) predicted. Film at 11 by crmartin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Okay, folks, tell me: what can a cyber-terrorist do to a car that will cause it to burst into flames in a few weeks? All I can think of offhand is changing the spec for the gas line to gum rubber instead of neopreme, or soemthing like that --- and, of course, no one involved will ever notice, because cars are completely assembled by robots and no human ever sees the specs, buys the materials, or checks the figures.

    And, if they were to do so, what happens? Someone announces a recall and a bunch of people take their cars to the dealerships.

    Hell, why not do it the cheap way: wait until there is an accident, and just announce that it was done by your super secret ninja terror 31ee7 hax0rs.

    Or consider the sources: this guy from the "U.S. Cyber Consequences Unit" --- with their empty website on a non-government '.us' domain.

    Remember, kids, only a few years ago, the world didn't need computers to run. Chemical plants and other control systems have failsafes and safety valves and emergency shutdowns; people survive power blackouts, even if the birth rate does go up; we still have analog radios and mechanical water valves.

    On the other hand --- here's some guy with a nifty-sounding name on a web-site, and Richard Clarke, who has been making a living from running around with his hair on fire ever since he said cyber-terror was a bigger threat than al Qaeda. Get a little attention, and people will start taking their calls again; maybe the USCCA" can even hire someone to make a web site.

    Who benefits from this story?

  13. great... by SekShunAte · · Score: 5, Funny

    now that it's been publicized we'll have terrorists sittin around in their boxers and socks drinkin beer at their puter screen giggling when they confuse the subway employees on the recipe for a roast beef sandwich.

  14. Wolf, Wolf, not Chicken Little by billstewart · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You've got the wrong childrens' story here. The Bush Administration has been crying "Wolf Wolf" since they started running for office, and their military-FBI-spook allies in Washington have been crying it for years before that. Their most important political strategy has been to keep announcing things that Americans should be afraid of and announcing that they're strong decisive leaders who can protect us from the enemies that are trying to kill your children and hate your freedom. (Their other main strategy has been to preemptively smear their potential opponents, usually by saying that they're not strong enough or decisive enough to protect our families from our enemies as well as saying they don't share our values - "Kerry the Flip-flopper" trumps "Kerry the War Hero" any day, much more effectively than "Kerry the Liberal".) It doesn't matter that the wolf didn't show up this time, or that the "credible evidence" or "terrorist chatter" didn't turn into an attack, because We Scared The Wolf Away Again, But There Are Still More Wolves To Be Afraid Of.

    Cindy Sheehan was really effective against Bush for a while because she's a strong family-protection figure who made it clear that Bush had endangered her family rather than protecting it. And Katrina was even more effective, because it demonstrated that Bush wasn't decisive, or strong, or competent, when faced with an actual threat that he couldn't control but could have responded to. Osama bin Laden was just fine - if you're crying Wolf Wolf and a real Wolf shows up on occasion, that demonstrates that your strong leadership is needed just like you said.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  15. Homeland Security Knows Nothing by caller9 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would like to see some discourse on the ability of these FUD spewers to actually react or inform people on actual network security.

    I attended a cyber security thing once put on by these guys. It was completely worthless. When I say completely worthless I'm talking screendoor on a submarine worthless.

    A scenario: "Half of your computers on the network are infected by a virus, it is tying up your internet bandwidth trying to spread itself, what do you do? what...do...you...do?"

    Ok, for 1 if you're worth a damn you don't open port 25 outbound to client PCs anyway and proxy most internet traffic. The only outbound ports are for legacy systems with dedicated IPs. Second, say you do notice your bandwidth is consumed by something. Sniff the port, and close the firewall rule for said traffic until you have the info to take further action. Implicit deny anyone?

    Their scenario was geared toward the morons of the IT industry who might truly be perplexed by such a situation, but I found it laughable.

    That wasn't the totally useless part. The exercise as it was to be performed: IT provides the info on systems we are running and possible vulnerabilities. They come up with semi-plausable scenarios to exploit them. But in this event the EOC is fake-active and public safety officials are in a paper simulation of cyber attacks going on in their network. Notably, the analog radio system at the core is not mentioned.

    For every problem the solution would be to call IT. IT isn't even part of the exercise. Our fire chief who knows fire and fire personnel management inside and out, doesn't know the difference between PCL6 and PostScript. Nor would anyone in their right mind ask him to write an ACL for cisco equipment much less give him enable priviledges. Not that he would ask for them, he knows better. He knows that if you have a leaky pipe you call a plumber, not an ambulance.

    So the point of the whole exercise it to blow taxpayer money, ensure that public safety knows the numbers of appropriate IT personnel, possibly expose idiotic IT practices, and give public safety guys a little more FUD stress they could do without.

    Have they even simulated what would happen if a local ISP had a truck full of manure driven into it. That could easily take out half a city's internet and probably a few people downstream in a single point of failure. Would it effect first responders? Not at all. They have radios.

    I can't imagine many scenarios where cyber terrorism would be life threatening. Possibly have an economic impact, but I bet it would pale in comparison to phishing scams which they can't even police now.

  16. Re:How likely was 9/11 until it happened by datafr0g · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So I don't think this guy is fearmongering. He is doing his job just as a firemen who tells you your house is going to burn down.

    After reading your comment I found that I totally agree with you. He's not fearmongering but the article sure is!

    I didn't see a single quote in that article with reference to terrorism. The quotes from those interviewed refered to criminal activities, but the terms "terrorism" and "cyber-terrorism" were thrown in by the jornalist. Why? Does it matter if they're "terrorists" or not? I couldn't care less - the potential consequences are what matters.

    The only reason why the reporter uses the word "Terrorist" is because it gets far more attention than the pre 9/11 "Hacker".

    --
    "Who says nothing is impossible? Some people do it every day!" - Alfred E. Neuman
  17. Re:Very Real Indeed! by justchris · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You are correct sir! China has absolutely no problem whatsoever with foreign terrorists!

    Instead they have what they consider a growing problem with domestic terrorists. That's right, their own citizens taking terrorist actions against their government. Except we in America don't consider it terrorism because we don't like the Communist totalitarian rulers of China. So you tell me which is preferable, being hated by extremist members of other countries, or being hated by the general population of your own country. Take your time, I'll wait.

    --
    just some guy