Government May Help Bells Defend Against Wiretap Suits

Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "As lawsuits mount against phone companies from plaintiffs who allege their call records were handed over to the National Security Agency illegally, the companies' defense may get help from the U.S. government, the Wall Street Journal reports. From the article: 'The plaintiffs, who accuse Bell phone companies of privacy violations and are seeking billions of dollars in damages, would need to delve into the depths of the NSA's surveillance program to make their cases. But the government considers such information top secret, and legal experts expect the Bush administration to assert the "state secrets" privilege in the 20 or more lawsuits filed by privacy advocates in recent weeks. If judges accept the claim, as has been the case in nearly every instance in which it has been asserted since the early 1950s, the suits will dissolve.'"

Comments

Still Think the US isn't Headed for Fascism?

[eno2001]

Then you need to pull your head out slowly and cleanly and WAKE THE FUCK UP! George W. Bush is a criminal and needs to be impeached. NOW. Real Americans realize this. Idiot Americans don't. The only time an attack by a foreign power was ever carried out on U.S. soil was Pearl Harbour. 9/11 was done by the U.S. government. WAKE UP NOW!

Re:Still Think the US isn't Headed for Fascism?

[JavaLord]

Typically I don't respond to flamebait, however...

Still Think the US isn't Headed for Fascism?

The US isn't heading anywhere twards Fascism. The neocons are interventionalists, and imperialists via proxy. Really, this isn't anything new, because America has been fighting interventionist wars since Bush 1 was in office. Why do we continue to stick our nose in everyones business around the world against the advice of our founding fathers? While Hitler was a scourge to all of humanity, his legacy continues to haunt America, as America thinks they have some moral obligation to police the world, since when they didn't Hitler came to power. There is a collective guilt trip about not getting into WW2 earlier, and this leads to poor foreign policy.

Then you need to pull your head out slowly and cleanly and WAKE THE FUCK UP! George W. Bush is a criminal and needs to be impeached. NOW.

I'd hate to break it to you, but he's not a criminal. A weak president perhaps, but not a criminal.

Real Americans realize this. Idiot Americans don't.

Because anyone who disagrees with your personal beliefs must be an idiot. Isn't that the start of facist thinking? Perhaps you are heading twards facism, while the US is heading twards foriegn policy bankrupcy.

The only time an attack by a foreign power was ever carried out on U.S. soil was Pearl Harbour. 9/11 was done by the U.S. government. WAKE UP NOW!

I think you need to wake up now personally. I've watched loose change, and read the various internet theories about how 9/11 was done by our government. None of them lead to logical conclusions. Most are leftist propaganda. I can tell you why 9/11 happened with ease, they (the terrorists) were here, because we were over there. Bin Laden was unhappy with our continued support of israel, our military bases in the middle east, our propping up of corrupt regimes, and with our 1991 war in Iraq. He's said so in his statements. 9/11 happened for the same reason other terrorist events happen, an occupying force was in a foriegn land, the native people could not resist via standard military means so they resort to the weapon of the weak...Terrorism.

Instead of buying into these partisan theories, and coming up with arguements like "BUSH IS A WAR CRIMINAL!!!!@#! He is behind 9/11" go read the words of our founding fathers. Both Washington and Adams warned against our current foreign policy, and what it would lead to. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike the policies of Bush without coming up with fabricated stories based on hollywood logic.

Also, you might come to the conclusion that this isn't just a George W. Bush problem. It's a consistant policy from Bush 1, to Clinton, to Bush 2. They all thought America should policy the world, and Hillary will be the same way if she gets into office.

You may think most of this post has nothing to do with the original article, but in truth it has everything to do with it. If we weren't being the keystone cops of the world, we wouldn't have to deal with domestic terrorism from foreign fighters.

Re:Uncle Sam will get to collect all he wants.

[blcamp]

I don't break any laws as I conduct my telephone conversations, nor do (I would speculate) 99.99% of Americans. But if we catch terrorists and avert attacks, what's the harm in the government monitoring these phone calls?....And folks, please spare me the privacy argument/nonsense...

this statement is nothing more than a more sophisticated way of saying "if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear",


That's your interpretion/opinion, but you've missed my point. My point is that *I* don't fear what the Government is doing, I am NOT presuming to suggest whether *YOU* should or should not fear what they are doing. But you should understand they are going to do what they want anyway.

the last portion really disqualifies you from saying anymore on the subject.

As a US Citizen, I am eminently qualified to say whatever I choose to on this subject, under the First Amendment. Who the hell are you to say that I am not?

It reflects absolutely no respect for the constitutional protections for the people of this nation.


I am well aware of the protections granted under Consitution, chapter and verse. Spare me your lectures and condecension. I'm a lifelong American who loves this country and would lay my life down today for it if called upon (I'm too old to be in the military).

But you need to understand something: We are at WAR. And the enemies of our country do not give a goddamn about our liberties, or freedoms, our lives, and do not operate by any societal rules whatsoever. We therefore have to conduct ourselves under this reality, and understand something basic such as knowing that if an enemy combatant (or agent or participant, or whatever) is making a PHONE CALL to someone else, and either (or both ends) of that phone call happen to be in that country... the government MUST have that information, period.

LIKE IT OR NOT, NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS TRUMP CIVILIAN PRIVACY CONCERNS, PERIOD. DEAL WITH IT.

Blocking the government's ability to get the information it needs to potentially save lives or avert an attack, simply because you don't want the governement to know what you said to whomever is, in my view, giving indirect assistance to the enemy. YES, I SAID THAT.


Point1: there are many "unenforcible" and antiquated laws on the books which can be used against you if the dominant party doesnt like what you are doing or who you are associating with


So what? People can file lawsuits against you now if they don't like what you are doing. With a good lawyer, you can make anything "enforcible".


Point2: even if it is not used for legal abuse, it can be used for closed door blackmail/threats to keep the opposing political groups and corporations "in line"


This speaks to my original point: The government has the power, and can and will use it. Abuse or not, legal or not. As for me, it doesn't affect me. If it does you, too bad. Fight them all you want, but whatever the results are, deal with it and move on.


Point3: We have had technically feasible ways to invade people's privacy en wholesale since the late 40's but you didnt see it happen because when they try they face the public wrath


How would you know if it happened or not? I'm not a conspiacy theorist and don't wear a tinfoil hat, but seriously, how do you know what the government did or did not record since that time?


Point4: according to that statement above, why are they trying to invoke state secrets to hide their obvious breach of the constitution on multiple amendments? hmmm?


How about the survival of our country? If we don't do what is necessary to protect ourselves... if we don't take EVERY POSSIBLE MEASURE to prevent an attack (whatever manner or form it may be), THERE MAY WELL NOT BE A CONSTITUTION TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS WITH.

I FOR ONE WOULD RATHER HAVE A TEMPORARY BENDING OF THE RULES BY THE ONES WE ALREADY PUT IN CHARGE (remember that you a