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A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

Burlap writes "Using technology developed at MIT, 4-person startup Avanti Metal hopes to reduce the cost of producing Titanium from the current $40 per pound to a mere $3. The article discusses how a special combinations of oxides and electrolysis separates the titanium metal from the Earth's abundant titanium oxide ore."

14 of 335 comments (clear)

  1. I'm surprised by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No one found this earlier. The Hall-Heroult Process for aluminium is basically the same,and has been known for well over a century.

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    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
  2. Great for chainmaillers by Kabuthunk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sweet! I'm sure this will likely have a significantly higher impact on pretty much all products as is, but this will affect me in a slightly different way. I'm one of the few that make chainmail as a hobby. Titanium chainmail is significantly lighter, rusts less, etc, etc. Significantly better for metalcraft than stainless steel or galvanized steel or anything like that in my opinion.

    So, having cheaper working materials = excellent for people like me :}

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    1. Re:Great for chainmaillers by CracktownHts · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Forgive me for commenting on something I know next to nothing about, but would you actually be able to work with titanium the way you work with whatever you normally use (I assume steel)? I believe Parker (the pen company) had to cancel their titanium pen (the T-1) in the early 1970s because it was too difficult to work with. They only made it for a few months and the surviving ones trade hands for around a thousand bucks these days.

  3. One of my first jobs by IamNotAgeek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I worked at a titanium manufacturing plant where I analyzed samples for nitrogen contamination. Even though it was a pretty low level repetitive job, I still felt like a scientist working in a lab wearing a lab coat and the head chemist was a guy from Sweden named Jurgen (?sp). I also remember that the titanium tetrachloride was so volatile that just a spoonfull released into the atmosphere would create a huge white cloud and the fire department would show up and management would have to fill out an incident report. Good memories, except for the time I got hydrofluoric acid on my fingers, very painfull, and of course when I accidently breathed in some vapors and had frequent nosebleeds for several years afterwards.

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    All generalities are dangerous except ones that start with "All /.ers"
  4. Chainmail by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 3, Interesting
    You make chainmail? Truly, a geek among geeks. You ought to be careful -- if the amount of geekosity in a given area of space gets too high, it can collapse into a dork-hole.

    Just jeffin' ya. Sounds like an interesting hobby. Know anyone who makes swords? I've heard that the metallurgy that goes into a modern metal blade is quite impressive, and that modern swords -- despite being made almost entire by hobbyists -- are far superior to the swords of antiquity.

  5. Re:Ad problem. by Doppler00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Then why not get a ring made out of Tungsten? It's pretty expensive too and twice as dense as gold.

  6. modern swords by bodrell · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Know anyone who makes swords? I've heard that the metallurgy that goes into a modern metal blade is quite impressive, and that modern swords -- despite being made almost entire by hobbyists -- are far superior to the swords of antiquity.
    You weren't addressing me, but regardless . . .

    My brother knows one of these modern-day master swordsmakers. One of the new tricks is to use high quality braided cable as a starting material. You flux it or something, then heat and pound. Like starting out with a Damascus or samurai style laminated blade, but woven instead of folded. Sounded pretty cool to me.

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    Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
    1. Re:modern swords by LordNightwalker · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yup, I helped a friend make small strips of that for use in knifemaking. It's relatively easy; all you need is a gas forge (he helped me make mine, there's not much to it actually), an anvil, borax, steel cable, a welding machine and some large forging pliers to hold the hot piece of metal while beating it with a hammer. Oh, and you need a decent hammer too; one with hardened faces; soft ones won't do.

      The process is simple; you tie off one end of the cable with some wire, before the point where it starts to untangle. You then cut off the untangled part relatively close to the point where you tied it off. Then weld the end fixed, so it won't untangle again. Repeat the same process a bit down the cable; how far depends on how long a strip you want to create. You then fire up your gas forge, wait for it to heat up completely, and just put the rod in. Wait untill it glows the right shade of red, take it out of the fire, then either throw borax on it using a large salt-shaker type of thing, or just roll the rod into a large bowl of borax. This will form a layer of borax around the rod. Back into the forge, the borax will seep between the strands of the cable, eating away at the impurities contained within. Repeat this process a couple of times... actually, a lot of times... The borax will drip into your forge, and it will eventually eat through the hull, so you better use one with a decent ceramic coating to prevent or slow down this process. Anyway, after you've repeated this process enough times, it's time to start welding the cable into a proper strip.

      Make sure you wear decent protection, because when you hit that cable with your hammer, borax might shoot out, and hot borax will leave wounds that will ooze puss for days when it hits your bare skin. Even if you don't care about a couple of scars and some temporary discomfort, at least be smart enough to wear eye protection. Great, let's get on with it. Take the rod out of the forge, it's best to work in pairs so one can hold it with the pliers while laying it on the anvil, while the other smashes away at it with the hammer. Start beating it at one end, and do a couple of centimeters at a time. At first your goal is to create a rod with a square cross section; once you have that, you repeat the process, this time flattening it into a strip. Every time the metal cools off (starts glowing dimmer), put it back in the forge, and when it's heated up enough again, repeat the process, but start where you left off, slowly working your way from one end of the rod to the other. You'll notice that the metal will warp under the blows of your hammer; this is perfectly normal. Just turn it around, and you can smash it straight again. First hammer it on four sides to a square cross section, when you've covered the whole rod, repeat but this time beating it only on two sides so you end up with a strip.

      Eventually, you'll end up with a rudimentary strip of cable damascus a couple of millimeters thick. Flatten it with a belt sander or whatever you have at your disposal, cut it into a straight strip, and you have a nice piece of cable damascus for stock removal production of knives (meaning you file the shape of the knife out of the bare strip, leaving the edge about 1mm in thickness, heat treat it, then polish and sharpen it). Of course you don't have to go the stock removal route; if you're more inclined to actually forge your knife/sword out of the rod, then work towards the shape you want for your knife/sword instead of a straight strip, and finish it off by belt sanding it to its final shape, heat treating it, then polishing and sharpening it.

      You can find lots of info on knife/sword forging online if you google around a bit, and there's tons of books written on the subject. I'm just lucky I have a couple of friends who inducted me into this obscure art, though I wish I had more time to actually finish the designs I started... ;)

      For those interested in this kind of stuff, a good starting point might be the knife makers forums on bladeforums.

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  7. Re:Aluminium? by bodrell · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Meanwhile, aluminum has issues. At best it makes your soda taste yucky after a while.

    Sorry, but there's no direct contact between the soda and the metal. The cans are lined with a thin coating of some sort. Otherwise the soda would indeed dissolve the can.

    In case you're doubting, here's the experiment that showed me what's up: Wash two soda cans. Score the inside of one of the cans, just a tiny scratch going all the way around, to penetrate the protective coating. Then fill both cans with an acidic solution and let them sit around a few hours. Dump out the acid, and you can tear apart the scored can as if it were paper. Chemistry magic trick.

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    Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
  8. Re:Aluminium? by r00t · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can tear apart an unscored can as if it were paper. They are really thin these days.

    Steel was once used, but we had to switch to aluminum because Coke ate through the steel too fast.

  9. Re:Ad problem. by afidel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually that durability can be one of the biggest problems with Titanium rings, trauma sheers can't cut them so if you have any kind of severe sweeling problem there's a good chance of digit loss because the ER won't be able to remove the ring. That and the fact that my father gave me his ring are the reason I didn't get a titanium one. (He hadn't worn his in 20 years due to working with the machining industry and seeing several people lose their hands in machines due to wedding bands).

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  10. Re:Apples and oranges... by modecx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Oh, the colors are beautiful, I can't disagree. I've seen paintings from the 70s that apparently used an electrified brush that acted as anode, and the technique would build an oxide layer on the surface of the Ti. The really cool thing was that by varying the thickness of the oxide layer, any color from white to yellow to blue to dark brown could be achieved because of the way light plays with titanium oxide... And there were no other compounds but Titanium and Titanium Oxide used for the whole painting! I've always been impressed with that stuff.

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  11. Re:Apples and oranges... by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > Ti is an American strategic resource, none of which is found in the U.S.

    Titanium is the 9th most common element in the Earth's crust and is found everywhere, including the US. While the US presently imports titanium (from Canada and Australia, for example) domestic production could easily be increased.

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  12. Re:Ad problem. by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Rockwell numbers are kind of arbitrary. What the hell does 57 on Rockwell C mean in real-world terms? Think about what Rockwell and the like test: you apply a known force to a ball or diamond of a known cross-section and measure the resultant deformation. Force per unit area... is PSI. Or KPa. Those are non-arbitrary terms, or at least they're one level less arbitrary than Vickers or Rockwell numbers. "The yield strength in tension is about 1/3 of the hardness" and yield strengths are measured in KPa (if you're in a civilized country) or PSI (otherwise).

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