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Rosen Believes RIAA is Wrong about P2P Lawsuits

Newer Guy writes "Former RIAA head Hilary Rosen now believes that the RIAA is wrong by pursuing their lawsuits of individuals for using P2P programs. In a blog post, she writes that she believes the lawsuits have 'outlived their usefulness' and states that the content providers really need to come up with their own download systems. She also is down on DRM, calling Apple's DRM 'a pain.'"

19 of 287 comments (clear)

  1. Have You Ever Noticed? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Former RIAA head Hilary Rosen now believes that the RIAA is wrong by pursuing their lawsuits of individuals for using P2P programs.
    Have you ever noticed that it's easier to assume the higher moral ground when your job is no longer riding on your views & political statements? Now for your entertainment, you can not only hear it from United States Generals but also former RIAA employees!
    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Have You Ever Noticed? by Blimey85 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      DRM no matter who it's from is still DRM. Just because you haven't hit a limit with Apple's DRM doesn't mean that other users haven't. IMHO there is absolutely no way to effectively stop pirating. Maybe if we started beheading people for pirating we might be able to slow things down but I'm not certain that even something that drastic would have much effect.

      We all have this "I'll never get caught" attitude and so no matter what happens to the next guy, we feel immune. Lots of people got sued by the RIAA but I never had a problem finding any song I was looking for. Soulseek still worked as well as ever. Their threats and subsequent action in the form of lawsuits did nothing to deter me nor millions of other people from pirating songs, movies, whatever.

      So what good does DRM, threats, lawsuits, or any of the other tactics that have been used, what good does any of it do? It doesn't stop piracy. It doesn't even seem to slow it down. Torrent sites get taken down and new ones pop up. Software such as Napster gets shut down and other software comes along to fill the void. The train keeps on rolling. The people who get hurt are the ones who our buying the material legally or who have bought hardware that has restrictions. My Sony network music player (can't really call it an mp3 player since it's primary use is to play atrac files) allows me to transfer whatever I want to the player, but I can't move the songs back off the player to my computer. I had a Creativer player previously that allowed me to move everything both ways and it was a lot less hassle. Sure Sony's format takes up a lot less space and I like the fact that it's offered but I'd also like to be able to convert back to mp3 if I want to move the songs off the device. Especially songs that I've kept in the mp3 format. These limits haven't stopped me from pirating music, they've just frustrated me and made me consider devices from other companies that don't have the same limitations.

      The media companies need to realize that there is a way to make more profit but it's not by forcing limitations on us. Make things easier and more available through legit channels and more and more people will abandon piracy. Give us downloads that we can use however we want for a very small fee and people will flock to that. Give us tv shows without commericals for $.99 each that are avail the same day as the episode airs on tv and let us subscribe to the shows we want to see. I'd pay good money for that service. As it is I download my shows the day after they air and I never see any commercials plus I get the widescreen versions even though I don't have an hdtv. The downloaded episodes look better on my tv than what I can get from using my dvr. I'm not going to watch the commericals either way but I am willing to pay for a high quality, fast downloading, widescreen version of my favorite shows as long as it's better than what I'm doing now. Give it to me sooner, faster, and for only maybe $.99 and you'll rake in the dough.

      --
      How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
    2. Re:Have You Ever Noticed? by jambarama · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a no brainer. Obvious to anyone but the current president of the RIAA. She did blog on Lawrence Lessigs site a while back and I think some posters made some intelligent responses to her points.

      The same thing happened with Jack Valenti after he stepped down. All of a sudden he grew a brain and realized that some of the practices/technologies the MPAA developed/pushed while he was president weren't good for customers. Surprise surprise!

      I think what has happened is that now they are just normal consumers and the realize what a pain in the rear the stuff they pushed is to real people.

    3. Re:Have You Ever Noticed? by Kihaji · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you understand what it means to be an elected official at all? Clintons personal opinions are not what should have shaped his policies. An elected official is there to represent the people of the nation, not just himself. The fact that he seemed to be able to separate the two, shows me he at least had a basic idea of what it meant to be a good President.

  2. Hmm by Achra · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's all well and good, but I want to hear about how the Current head of the RIAA believes these things.

    --
    Each processor would proceed sequentially as if it had been better for them not to rise against Saul.
  3. We've seen this cycle before... by davecb · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm in the middle of trying to post the following to the Huffington Post, but it seems not to be able to see this particular Hilary Rosen posting... we may have a link to a very new article.

    I suspect that the RIAA members are just re-living the tempest in a teapot we had in the software businesses: we used to ship programs with all sorts of expensive copy protection devices.

    One of my employers then shipped their product without protection and saw no difference whatsoever in the rate of copying. So they dropped the "dongle", and saved precious dollars by doing so.

    Now my publisher and others are doing the same thing with electronic copies of their books, with similar good results.

    I expect we'll see the same with both music and movies. Commercial copiers will be dealt with by the courts, and individuals will be so minor a problems as to be ignored.

    --dave

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
    1. Re:We've seen this cycle before... by EonBlueTooL · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to support the RIAA which I don't, but I really do have a hard time believing that. If its a niched program you have a specific audience. Photoshop being a great example, not everyone wants it. There is a specific crowd who are looking for it and will pirate it for personal use (probably pretty computer literate people). Assuming they take a hobby professional they will most likly have to get a legal copy for a business.

      Downloading music on the other hand is a different story. EVERYONE wants music, and EVERYONE can download it easily. I've got some pretty computer illiterate friends and if they can download kazaa, and stuff their drives with $XX gigs of music then there obviously isn't that entry barrier. Not to mention once its downloaded it just works. The ease of use, not having to leave your home, not having to spend any money, getting entire compilations of artists works plus extras in one package, decent sound quality, relativly fast, the lack of money kids have and the lack of money their parents do to afford $xxxxx thousand dollars of music, coupled with everyone enjoying music and the simplicity of it, I would hate to be the RIAA up against that.

      On the other hand they arn't going to defeat it, and they're a group of idiots for not trying to come up with a new way to make money as the world has change.

  4. The buyers are the problem all too often by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ok, fess up, how many of you have downloaded gigs of MP3s before with no intention of going out to see the band live or buy the merchandise? DRM exists primarily because many college students today enjoy a quasi-middle class lifestyle on campus and still rape and pillage the file sharing networks. I'd be a lot less cynical if I didn't see a lot of the guys I knew flat out not give two shits about supporting small bands because they'd rather buy a case of beer than actually pay for the music they listened to at the party or in their apartment/dorm. And I'm not talking about bands like Metallica, but Lacuna Coil, Nightwish, theStart and others like them.

    What we need is less DRM and more basic law enforcement action. It'd be a lot more effective for them to monitor bandwidth usage on campus and then start "wiretapping" students who are heavy users to see just what the hell they're doing. Chances are, it ain't home movies, porn or Linux ISOs they're sending.Then send them a bill for $5-$10/file traded illegally. Treat it like a minor property crime like stealing a candy bar and maybe juries will actually go for it.

    1. Re:The buyers are the problem all too often by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure the recording industry would love that. But why should those of us who don't rip content illegally pay up lots of money to subsidise those of you who do?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  5. Re:the DRM statement by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > It's one of the least-annoying there is.
    This is astroturfing and unsubstantiated FUD.

    > Apple probably didn't want to add it at all but only did it grudgingly,
    More astroturfing or possibly groteseque stupidity -- Proprietary DRM is the cornerstone of Apple's online music business

    > I don't get why she's complaining about Apple's DRM specifically.
    Because it has 90% of the market. Initally, the RIAA probably thought non-interoperable DRM was a great idea because Apple, Real, and Microsoft would split the market, and people would end up re-purchasing music depending on device compatibility.

    However at this point, Apple is so dominate, the market for online music can never really grow larger than Apple wants it to be. There's whole categories of digital music devices that are not feasible right now because of the lack of iTMS compatibility. So while Apple grew the market from nothing, now that it's established. they are really the limiting factor to the total size of the market and how the songs are priced and marketed.

    Or at least that's how the RIAA would see it -- and they're not always exactly objective. But still, if there were to do it over again, they would be industry-wide standards for DRM.

    --
    Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
  6. Re:the DRM statement by shaitand · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here we go, we should have known the apple apologizers would come out. Look, Apple is one of the most vile anti-consumer monster corporations out there. Learn to the live with that. Apple gives not one flying fluck about its 'loyal fans' but it knows a buck when it sees one. If Apple fought more restrictive DRM it was because they thought it would hurt their bottom line not for the sake of their customers.

    As for which DRM to attack, it makes the most sense to complain about the least obtrusive DRM you can find. That way things start off on the basis that, that minimal DRM is too much. Otherwise that minimal DRM would become the best compromise we could hope for.

  7. Her Role by HardCase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rosen's blog points out that it was in her "role as Chairman and CEO of the Recording Indsutry [sic] Assciation [sic] of America" that she participated in planning the lawsuits. I suppose that means that in her "role" as a private citizen she had some objection to them.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that there can be a difference between a person's public and private opinions. In Rosen's case, maybe the difference is extreme. If she really didn't support the lawsuits, maybe that's the reason that she resigned - who knows. But somehow it seems kind of slimey to chair an organization like the RIAA while the decisions are being made, then take the position that she bears no responsibility for the lawsuits because she'd already made the decision to leave:

    I don't honestly know what I would have done about the individual lawsuits had I stayed. I certainly participated in multiple planning and debate sessions about them. There were good arguments on both sides and the staff at the RIAA are thoughtful, good people who work hard to protect their constituency. Thankfully my plan to leave was firmly in place and I didn't have to make that tough call or take the heat for the one that was made.

    The CEO isn't a dictator - decisions are commonly made in companies that the CEO doesn't necessarily agree with, but that carry the support of other executives. But it's pretty craven to let a plan go forward, then quit and say that you really had nothing to do with it because you were going to quit anyway.

    But what really caught my eye was the extraordinary amount of misspellings and basic grammar errors in her blog entry. I'm no grammar nazi, but I have to say that I was stunned.

    Oh yeah, to the submitter of the story: Rosen says that Apple's proprietary DRM "bugs" her. Hilary Rosen can say stupid things on her own - you don't need to make quotes up.

    -h-

  8. Is this really the same thing... by algerath · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I am not saying I agree with the RIAA business practices, they are pretty shitty. Are shitty business tactics in the same ballpark as "hanoi Jane" or Hitler? I might even classify the RIAA as evil, but as far as I know they have not committed acts bordering on treason nor have they committed genocide. Let's keep some perspective here Hitler, WOW

    Algerath

  9. Re:the DRM statement by Have+Blue · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is astroturfing and unsubstantiated FUD.
    What stores have less annoying DRM? There are stores with zero DRM, but see point 2 for why that's not feasible for Apple.

    Proprietary DRM is the cornerstone of Apple's online music business
    No, RIAA music is the cornerstone of Apple's online music business. DRM was how Apple secured their cooperation. Do you think the music store would have been a fraction as successful as it was if it was stocked with unknown independents?

  10. The most liberal DRM... by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Would you like me to put you in the Loosest Set of Handcuffs ever invented? $18.95 today only.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:The most liberal DRM... by Secrity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would call playing music using a standard MP3 player to be normal use. OK bright boy, tell me how to play Apple DRM'ed music on my MP3 player, without having to burn a CD.

  11. So what office is she running for? by HiThere · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is obviously preparing her to run for office as a "protector of the people".

    You don't think she's any more trustworthy now than before do you? When someone has proven repeatedly that they cannot be trusted, why would you trust their "conversion"?

    I'll wait for some proof a bit stronger than a public statement before I start taking anything she says are worthy of belief. "Actions speak louder than words" may not be true, but I find them much more convincing.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  12. Re:the DRM statement by telbij · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look, Apple is one of the most vile anti-consumer monster corporations out there. Learn to the live with that. Apple gives not one flying fluck about its 'loyal fans' but it knows a buck when it sees one. If Apple fought more restrictive DRM it was because they thought it would hurt their bottom line not for the sake of their customers.

    Welcome to America buddy. Why should anyone think that Apple would be different than any other company? By this standard all corporations are vile anti-consumer monsters. Why the double standard? The only distinguishing aspect of Apple for me is that they make products I like (not in the 90s, but I really dig Mac OS X).

    If there's something that I think makes a company 'viley-anti-consumer' it would have to be lobbying for laws to protect monopolies or other business practices that harm the public. The most vile corporations in my mind are the ones that exploit natural resources and create huge amounts of pollution, thus making profits at the expense of things that should belong to all of us. I find it hard to demonize a company for simply creating and marketing a product that I don't like for some reason.

  13. Re:Did Hilary Rosen have a "spiritual awakening"? by iminplaya · · Score: 4, Insightful
    But you have to give her credit for seeing that the RIAA was/is on a bad course.
    No I don't. You have to be blind not to see that the RIAA is on a bad course, and she knew it all along. Now she's having an epiphany? I don't think so. It doesn't take any guts to say what she says, now that she got her money. If what she says now is to have any meaning, then she should repay all the money lost by the people that she trashed. What she is saying is the same as a politician taking "responsibilty" for their mistakes after they get caught in some despicable act or their negligence. Empty words knowing full well that they will suffer no consequences. Color me unimpressed.
    --
    What?