Has My Cell Number Been Cloned?

2bepissedoff asks: "According to my T-mobile phone bill, I have been receiving incoming calls from a 'NBR unavailable', since February, with talk time ranging from 1 minute to an hour. The strangest thing is, I have never received these calls (my phone doesn't ring and I haven't talked to the caller). I only started noticing them when my phone bill was charged over $40 more than my regular bill. Of course, I have a family plan (2 people only, 2 lines) and I talked to my partner. The answer: he too had not received any of these calls, especially over 300 minutes per month of them. We called up T-mobile twice and claim the possibility of phone cloning. Both representatives hung up on me, thinking I was trying to con them or something. Any advice to what this could be?" I did a little investigation and I've noticed that some of the NBR minutes overlap with calls I actually make. For example:

'2/22 at 3:28 pm "NBR unavailable" 17mins usage.
2/22 at 3:44 pm "-(# I made)---" 3mins usage.

So if you add up the time 3:28pm + 17 mins = 3:45 pm. The time when I made my call was at 3:44 pm. This reoccurs several times. I still do not think this is enough evidence to convince T-mobile of Phone Cloning. So I am thinking of switching either my number or my service provider. "

Comments

Do Not Put Up With That

[eldavojohn]

Both representatives hung up on me, thinking I was trying to con them or something. Any advice to what this could be?

Here's some advice: Don't take that shit.

You're a human being. But more importantly, you're a paying customer. Call them up, get the guy's name. Inform him that if he hangs up, you'll contact his supervisor. Then ask him what zip code these calls were made from, they should be able to figure that out. Verify that it's something reasonable.

If they won't believe you and you can convince them you're not making the calls, try calling the number and letting your phone ring. See if anyone picks up.

If that doesn't work, simply demand they change your number for you.

If they refuse to do that, be sure to inform them where you're taking your business.

Personally, I'd be pretty damned pissed if anyone ever hung up on me when I was simply inquiring as to why they were charging me money. In fact, I know right where I'd file that complaint.

If I had a credit card associated with the account, I'd call my credit card company and dispute the charge. You explain to the credit card company that they hung up on you twice. What the operator will do is put you on hold while they contact T-Mobile. The operator should introduce you to the T-Mobile rep and try to resolve the issue. If T-Mobile has a call from a credit card company, I'm certain they'll be a bit more understanding when they're looking at the possibility of having to chase down a stopped payment.

Re:Do Not Put Up With That

[barzok]

Don't bother with the BBB. Your time is better spent moving up the T-Mobile chain of command. The BBB has no teeth and won't help your case against them.

I filed a claim with the BBB a couple years ago and all I did was fill out paperwork (well, web forms). I was never interviewed by the BBB, never called by the BBB, and they never (to my knowledge) contacted the company I filed the claim against to work with them as my advocate. I have no evidence that they did anything at all.

The hours I spent documenting & compiling everything for the BBB, everything I sent them, may as well have been pitched into a black hole.

I've had this problem also..

[GonzoTech]

.. With Verizon Wireless. They wouldn't help me resolve the issue over tech support forums, or through phone call tech support. Know how I got it fixed?

I showed up at a Verizon Wireless sales center, yelling and complaining (trust me, I can throw quite the tantrum,) until a manager finally got in touch with someone to fix the issue.

I got three months of free service for the trouble.. and since I've had perfect phone bills.

Never underestimate the power of being an ass when you're not treated fairly..

Re:switching the number won't work

[SenseiLeNoir]

If its a GSM phone, I very much doubt any cloning has occured for the following reasons.

BTW, I used to work for Logica, in the telecoms division, and have a LOT of knowledge of GSM systems, and how they work. I am also a T-Mobile (UK) customer.

Remember these facts:

- A GSM phone has a unique IMEI number.
- Each GSM phone has a unique SIM card with a unique SIM number. This SIM number is attacted on a central computer to your account.
- Although the SIM card does contain your number, it is many for informative, and not operational purposes.

When you switch on your phone and it logs onto your network, it sends its IMEI number, and its SIM number to the network. The network then looks up the SIM number and associates it with a number. As it stands, only one SIM number can ever be associated with a phone number. When i tried getting a new SIM to replace my aging SIM, the old one was disconnected before the new SIM was issued, as it is simply not possible to associate a number with two SIMs. You can associate a SIM with two or more numbers, but not the other way round.

If someone HAS cloned your SIM, and both phones are attached at the same time, the network would register a fault, as a SINGLE sim number is assiciated at two different locations. It woudl create a fault in the system which would prevent both yours and the clone SIM from working. This is actually one of the main reasons why Cellphones are not usable on Planes (even if it is prooven to be safe to the electronics). The phone woudl try to log onto multiple cells at the same time, causing a lot of strain on the network, or even malfunction.

A SIM can only be "effectively" cloned if the original was never used afterwards. If both the Original SIM and the Clone was used at the same time, the network will try and continuesly switch between the two cells its registered to, unless both are on the same cell. if both are on the same cell, further issues would happen.

I am not sayign that cloning is impossible, its just extremely unlikely.

I woudl think the most likely causes of this situation are:
- Are you *sure* your partner is not recieving the calls? Really sure?
- Maybe, if you visited another country (or performed roaming) there might be some residual temporary numbers assigned to your phone.

However, the way the records are kept, you shoudl find that its pretty easy for the phone company to determine what happend. Who made the phone call, what handset was in use, where the call was recieved.

Finally I do not know the laws of the US, but here in the UK, the first point of call if you think your phone has been cloned or if your believe that a crime has been committed regarding your phone is the POLICE.

In UK, if we recieve am abusive call, calling the phone company will not be any help. They will rightly ask you to contact the police first, and they will work with the police to resolve the matter.

Re:No, Technology isn't magic.

[PayPaI]

You can press a phone code to turn off your call id, and number forwarding, so that the recieving party cannot trace you. (in the u.s.) This was done so that victims of abuse could call home without fear of being traced. The phone company dosen't get that number either.

Lies. The company gets the number no matter what. CID blocking is just that: blocks anyone with "Caller ID" from getting your number. Anyone with ANI will still get it. Do you think that you could block CID when you call 911? "Sorry, we don't know where you are!"

Re:It's probably the NSA

[Mistlefoot]

As an employee of a cell phone company who works in Customer Care I'll offer my two bits.

1) When you call customer care ask for and write the down the Care agents name. If they hang up on (unless you are being incredibily agressive and swearing) that information will be handy to their Supervisor. Call back and let that be known.

2) Both the IMEI number on the handset and Sim Care will be recorded. If both do not match on a disputed call this is strong evidence of cloning.

3) You have 3 way calling, you have voice mail - two calls at one time is not an anomaly in itself.

4) Ask for a Supervisor if you do not recieve care at a lower level.

5) View your online account and watch you billing daily if you think this is a cloning problem. Trying to remember a call from 5 weeks ago is not easy.

6) Don't dispute calls in general. Dispute specific calls. We can look up specific calls. Saying I have 47 billed minutes I didn't use means nothing. Saying, the call to 123-456-7890 on 6/03/06 at 2:57pm was not made by me. We can actually help with that.

7) Correspond via email instead of calling. Over the phone pressure exists to keep the lenght of the call down. Via email agents can research your issue without having to leave you on hold - the pressure for resolution in a 5 minute phone call is not there.

8) When you hear this often in a Call center you do become immune to it. People lie all the time - a popular one is "I have bad coverage" only to find out after reviewing their account that they've used 2800 minutes this month and are happy to accept a discounted handset with a 2 year deal. People with truly bad coverage do not renew for two years and have 2800 minutes usage per month. As such, it is easy for a Care agent to dismiss you without much investigation. Do not give up after 1 or 2 calls (or email). This does not mean that you are right, merely that your issue will be investigated more thoroughly the second or third time. This is normal in many businesses.