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Has My Cell Number Been Cloned?
2bepissedoff asks: "According to my T-mobile phone bill, I have been receiving incoming calls from a 'NBR unavailable', since February, with talk time ranging from 1 minute to an hour. The strangest thing is, I have never received these calls (my phone doesn't ring and I haven't talked to the caller). I only started noticing them when my phone bill was charged over $40 more than my regular bill. Of course, I have a family plan (2 people only, 2 lines) and I talked to my partner. The answer: he too had not received any of these calls, especially over 300 minutes per month of them. We called up T-mobile twice and claim the possibility of phone cloning. Both representatives hung up on me, thinking I was trying to con them or something. Any advice to what this could be?"
I did a little investigation and I've noticed that some of the NBR minutes overlap with calls I actually make. For example:
'2/22 at 3:28 pm "NBR unavailable" 17mins usage.
2/22 at 3:44 pm "-(# I made)---" 3mins usage.
So if you add up the time 3:28pm + 17 mins = 3:45 pm. The time when I made my call was at 3:44 pm. This reoccurs several times. I still do not think this is enough evidence to convince T-mobile of Phone Cloning. So I am thinking of switching either my number or my service provider. "
'2/22 at 3:28 pm "NBR unavailable" 17mins usage.
2/22 at 3:44 pm "-(# I made)---" 3mins usage.
So if you add up the time 3:28pm + 17 mins = 3:45 pm. The time when I made my call was at 3:44 pm. This reoccurs several times. I still do not think this is enough evidence to convince T-mobile of Phone Cloning. So I am thinking of switching either my number or my service provider. "
I still do not think this is enough evidence to convince T-mobile of Phone Cloning. So I am thinking of switching either my number or my service provider.
You ask the question, "Has my cell number been cloned?" I ask the more pressing question... "Has your brain turned to mush?" DUH, if you're getting calls that you're not getting, then there's a problem.
You say "Both representatives hung up on me, thinking I was trying to con them or something." I say, you need to adjust your message to give them the facts -- customer support reps are only human. If you ramble on with your life story, or rant and rave, or interject useless details, then you might get hung up on. But T-Mobile gave me good service when I had them (I only dropped them because they didn't have good service in the middle of nowhere, where I live). If you call and say "Here are the calls that I neither made nor received. Please remove them from my bill and block me from ever recieving calls from the associated numbers." I can't imagine they'd refuse.
There's also the distinct possibility that the owner of the second line isn't being straight with you. I'm reminded of a poem I read on the bus:
By the time you swear you're his,
Shivering and sighing,
And he vows his passion is
Infinite, undying -
Lady, make a note of this:
One of you is lying.
-Dorothy Parker, Unfortunate Coincidence
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Wow... that was uncalled for. I had assumed by partner, he meant business partner. I will be taking on a business partner soon, and I would put him in a "family" plan if I had that type of service, because inter-calling would free in most cases. Even if it isn't his "business" partner, so what? Why do you have to use all the language? And of course, you assume the first person is a guy.
Kernel Krunch - Part of a Complete OS
Or your partner is cheating on you, did receive those calls, and is lying to you about it.
(Just saying. It happens all the time.)
Here's some advice: Don't take that shit.
That's the best advice you'll get. You pay them to provide you with mobile phone service and in return they promise to provide that service. The onus is on them; if someone is illegally using your phone number and wracking up hundreds or thousands of dollars in calls you did not make, they have a vested interest in determining if this is true and putting a stop to it. The easiest way for them to do that is freeze yor account and issue you a new phone number. I have T-Mobile and managed to lose my phone in France; I called them immediately and they were able to freeze my account that instant, preventing anyone from making calls and I was able to get a replacement as soon as I got back.
Try calling again -- keep calling until you get someone to listen. Try to cut right to the heart of the matter -- tell them you think someone is making calls using your number. A CSR should be able to pull up your current calling records and verify what you're terlling them easily enough.
As an aside, why is it possible for calls from the same number to be going on simultaneously? Wouldn't there be something to prevent that, unless you were using a three-way calling option?
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
I'm a big fan of T-Mobile, one of the only quality mobile networks in the US (even if they're restricted to the crappy 1900MHz band), so I'm disappointed you apparently are getting bad customer service from them.
I do recommend being careful about how you word it, when you talk about "phone cloning" and stuff then you're getting ahead of yourself. Let's address that first though:
Phone cloning is possible with GSM, but improbable, someone would be going to great lengths, buying equipment worth thousands of dollars, just to save a few dollars to make outgoing calls (the cloned cell is going to be unusable for incoming calls, after all.) While mobile phone cloning was a great business in the mid-nineties, that was when it was easier (plenty of analog phones, which could be cloned just be reflashing a second phone), and when mobile phones weren't exactly accessable to a sizable portion of the population.
Today, you can pretty much anonymously buy a prepaid mobile phone from any store, with a wide variety of minimum costs, generally of less than $10 a month from at least two major brands (T-Mobile and Cingular.) There aren't many people who'd want to clone phones, with the risks associated and the costs of doing the cloning to begin with, and the limitations on receiving calls, given the circumstances.
Your example isn't that convincing either as such circumstances would occur during call waiting or conference calling. I use both regularly, so my bill is full of these things.
The two most realistic circumstances are that there's a software error on T-Mobile's side, or that you're simply mistaken (possibly in terms of receiving the calls, or possibly in terms of how you're interpreting the bill.) Stop talking in terms of "My phone has been cloned!" and tell them that you and your partner believe these calls to be non-existant. Explain that they appear on your side of the bill, under your number, and you know you didn't receive them. Ask them to investigate.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
We called up T-mobile twice and claim the possibility of phone cloning. Both representatives hung up on me, thinking I was trying to con them or something.
The problem is that you're trying to supply a conclusive diagnosis to the T-mobile rep when you actually ahve no freakin' idea why those charges are appearing. Quit trying to offer them an explanation up front. That sounds like a con. Just give them the symptoms-- i.e. calls/charges on the bill that aren't yours-- and let them figure out what's happening.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
The total telecom costs are more competitive and come out less expensive in a system like ours (North America - mobile party pays for incoming and terminating calls; no landline to mobile termination fees).
In the UK (and most other countries), the landline-to-mobile rate is fixed at a high price. The mobile companies have no strong incentive to lower their termination fees, because they're not charging "their" customers - it's the other schmucks (landline customers) who get the shaft (customers they want to steal away from landline!). Of course there could be some limited competition on the landline side to get the "lowest" mobile termination fees, but in the end the landline carriers still have to negotiate that with the mobile provider. How much would 1000 minutes cost from landline to mobile in the UK? £36.10 - £215.40, depending on the carrier and time-of-day?
In the North American system, the entire minute bucket of incoming and outgoing minutes is negotiated between the mobile provider and their direct customer. Therefore, there is significant competition between carriers to provide the lowest total price. In other words, when you select a carrier here, you are negotiating the price on both sides. Over there, you are only negotiating the outgoing side of the equation (for the most part). How much would 1000 minutes (either direction) cost in the US? $40 (or free on nights/weekends)?
In the future, it seems like unlimited wireless is a distinct possibility (it already exists in my market!). In North America, that means that there will be no mobile-related charges whatsoever for incoming or outgoing. Do you think that foreign carriers will let go of mobile termination fees even if/when outgoing calls become free (unlimited)? In my case, I could pay $70/month and nobody would pay any per-minute fees to or from my phone!
What? What about when you are on the ground and happen to be standing in between 3 different towers, an equal distance from each? Wouldn't that be the same kind of situation you are talking about in an air plane?
Because all the cells need to negotiate with each other to ensure that your phone is only logged in to one cell at a time? And if you're on a plane, not only can your mobile see a lot of cells (meaning that negotiation is expensive), but because you're moving fast, the system has to renegotiate very frequently as you move from cell to cell?
No, GSM can handle this quite well. In towns with a high base station density, it is also possible that multiple cells are visible.
Claus
Whereas you do make valid points which are very possibly true, you dont say why my point is nonsense. It is perfectly possible that both of us are right!
I told you, I worked for LogicaCMG, we provide manufacture Mobile Network equipment (Logica Mobile Networks). If you dont know who LogicaCMG is and the size of its involvement in Telecoms, well back in 2003, 75% of the worlds SMS all went through LogicaCMG Software. So now you know my experience, and expertise, let me continue.
WHen a plane that is so high up crosses a densely populated city with a high cell density A cellphone will attempt to log onto many of those cells at the same time. Both the phone and the cells on the network will see almost equal "signal strengths" (distance between plane and ground is greater than distqance between cells, litttle bit of elementary geometry required here.. sorry I dont have a picture decribing the phemonenom). As such the netowrk does some form of conflict resolution which is communication and processor intensive.
s the plane is flying at a high speed, its possibel the phone is connecting on and off to many cells in a short time (signals are weaker too), this causes a lot of strain on the network, sometimes causing it to go down temporarily as its automatically restarted.
Multiply this by 100 or more phones on a single plane, and you can see how much of a strain this can be on the network.
A network glitch like this looks bad to the operator, as customers on the ground are cut off their calls for a few seconds (there are some SLAs that operators have to publish here in regards to call disconnections)
Our reasearch was actually contracted by Orange, and O2 in 1997 to helpfind ways to improve the ability to deal with mobiles on planes affecting cells on the ground.
We have tested this phenomenon in our test labs many times to try and improve the systems.
Together with better switching algoritms on the cells, and also the use of PICO trancievers located on the plane itself, we believe we have found some solutions for operators.
But it is TRUE that the mobile networks were imforming the FAA and other airline bodies about this problem. Face it, they woudl me most happy for the extra income created when thier phones are used in the air, but currently their systems can break when they are.
Before anyone informs me that cells were being used in one of the 9/11 planes. The plane was flying low over an area with much lower cell density.
Have a nice day!
actually he said the calls were RECEIVED (incoming). if i called someone, and can tell that a person "accidently" answered the phone (whilst it was in their pocket) I would hang up, and try ringing again. I woudl not hold the call for an hour!
To be honest, it looks like his partner probably had another "partner".. who called that line "number witheld", and was just fobbing him off, sayign that his phone may be cloned. That seems the most likely situation.
(the fact the calls were INCOMMING, and the number was unavailable are the biggest clues)
Have a nice day!
Just one little problem with your hypotheses. You're going to a STORE for this information. If you want that data, you need to go past retail, past even customer service, and up the chain of command. The FBI would never start an investigation by requesting call records from a STORE.
You most likely don't know your phone system well. There's NEVER a case where the phone company doesn't get your phone number and/or who called you. Billing would be sucktastic if the phone company ever didn't have the called and calling party numbers. They wouldn't know who to bill for the call!
--
Me spell chucker work grate. Need grandma chicken.
It is both. Airline operators prohibit operating radio transmitting equipment on board an airplane in flight (FAA requires that any equipment that is going to be used be tested for safe operation on commercial flights), but even private pilots aren't allowed to use cell phones in the air due to FCC regulations.
Adjacent cell towers coordinate frequencies in use, and do handoffs to the next cell as you move from one to the other. In an airplane, you are "adjacent" to many towers at once, even those that are so far apart that they can't coordinate and hand off. Even though YOUR call may end up working, you're probably disconnecting other calls over a wide area as you step on their frequency (and since you're about 5 miles away from the cell you're actually talking to that's directly below you, your signal is still about 50% as strong over a 5 mile radius around that tower).