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How to Win on Ebay: Snipe
grammar fascist writes "A study by South Korean physicists confirms what some of us have taken for granted for a long time: a single bid at end of auction nets the most wins. From the article: 'Plugging all those data into the model and testing the outcome in terms of how the auctions turned out, the team found that the probability of submitting a winning bid on an item indeed drops with each bid. "Our analysis explicitly shows that the winning strategy is to bid at the last moment as the first attempt rather than incremental bidding from the start." The study appears in the current Physical Review E journal.'"
Ebay allows users to set their secret maximum bid, so in a rational world a bidder just sets this at the highest price he's willing to pay. However, rational thought has nothing to do with markets (except in economics textbooks, for some reason), so people keep ratcheting up their maximum bid to win. The result is that the "max bid" system doesn't perform as it was intended, but it was a good idea.
Not the first good idea to be defeated by irrationalism, and not the last.
Use the Firehose to mod down Second Life stories!
People like to bid based on even dollar amounts. I've won auctions by bidding 2-3 cents more than the even dollar amount.
For example, if you want to bid $20 for something, bid $20.02 instead so if somebody else puts a bid of $20 on it, you still win.
Proxy bidding is supposed to allow easy auctions with fairness. The problem is the sniping phenomenon. And there is an easy fix: A bid will extend the auction by ~10 minutes if received in the last 10 minutes. Voila, no more sniping.
Yahoo! Japan already does something similar... I think its 15 minutes. Makes things much more fair for the seller.
-FL
Well, there you have it...like most things in life, you gotta figure out what you want and how badly.
If there is something I really want, I've set my alarm to wake up just to bid on the item...and crash back again after it is over.
I see nothing wrong with sniping. If you have set your bid to the absolute maximum you are willing to pay, and not a cent more...if no one snipes it at that $$ amount...you will still win. If someone outbids your bid at the last second...well, in your mind you should say.."They paid too much for that..."
This works pretty closely to a live auction. People can keep bidding till the hammer drops. Sure, it keeps going while bids keep coming in, but, that is the little difference between eBay and a live auction. At least with eBay you CAN win and don't HAVE to be there live.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
As the article says, sniping will only help you if the bidder you're trying to beat was willing to raise his own bid but didn't have the chance. This will only happen if the bidder you're trying to beat is inexperienced, stupid, untrusting of the automatic bid system, etc. However, since many such people bid on ebay, sniping certainly helps from time to time.
But the problem with this is that you never win the item. If you still just bid the one amount you're willing to pay, but you do it with a snipe, you're much more likely to actually get the auction item. Using a snipe program like jbidwatcher, it's just as easy to snipe as it is not to, so why wouldn't you?
Yeah, the auto-bid can prevent it, but only if the sniper bids too low, and too close to the end of auction to up his bid again. Has happened to me.
I admit I'm a sniper. I bid on ebay in either one of two ways.
Either I set my auto-bid at the maximum amount I think that item is worth and let it go (and if I get sniped, oh well).
Or, I set the auction on watch and then bid the max I want to pay for it within the last 20 seconds or so.
This way I never pay more than what I want, and sometimes get a pretty good deal. I see nothing wrong with it at all. I don't need any special software or tools to win, I just stay attentive and watch my items. Anyone else can outsnipe me at the same time. It's happened several times. I don't get bent out of shape over it. I just look for another one.
Adding a ten minute extension wouldn't really solve this. It would work great for sellers because the emotionally invested bidders would run up their bids more than they otherwise would. The buyers however would be better off just joining the snipers rather than fighting them. If everyone sniped it would basically revert to the pre-sniping days.
But think about a real auction: If the auctioneer says "going once...twice..." the item doesn't just go to the person who threw up their paddle at the last moment. It gets extended for another five seconds or so. Now, maybe the same dynamics don't work in the web world, but at least it puts perspective into it.
What if eBay also had another auction type in addition to normal and Buy It Now ones: silent auctions. It tells you when it ends, the seller may optionally give a reccomended amount, and you get to put in your bid, without knowing what anyone else put down. Now you'd be more compelled to put your maximum bid down.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
But what is that maximum?
If there's an item that you're willing to pay up to $10 for, you would probably still take it for $10.05. If it's one that's worth $10.05, you'd probably still consider it a pretty good deal for $10.10. That's where proxy bidding fails, because in the end, unless you enter a massively overpriced proxy bid, you're just going to be sniped by some other guy by 5 cents.
"My counter-claim, equally unsupported, is that if everybody bidded my way, the final price of the auction goods would be insignificantly different."
Possibly true. But not everyone bids your way. That's the problem.
"I don't believe they have an inflationary effect. That effect is illusion. The "real price" is not the "current winning bid", it's "the highest someone will pay for it". Sniping has no effect whatsoever on the real number."
Do you believe in the existence of incremental bidders? Have you seen someone bid in ebay and then get outbid then bid again? Have you seen someone put in lots and lots of little bids until his latest one just outstrips the maximum bid.
If you change your statement to: The winning bid on ebay is the highest that someone will pay for it, *if they put their maximum bid in on time*, then I'll agree with you.
Then I'll agree with you. The thing is, that the incremental bidders obviously aren't always placing their maximum bids. Sniping is just a way of making sure that they're less likely to.
"There are enough irrational bidders to push every item 5-10% over what I'd bid for them, because to them winning itself has value and it doesn't to me; I just want the item."
Sniping's job is to cut some of those guys out of the game, because the irrational bidders (the ones who will bid just-a-bit-more-than-the-other-guy) don't have a chance to irrationally bid.
Funnilly enough, I stopped ebaying ages ago too...
I've been thinking of adding something to my auctions saying "$2 discount if you bid before the last hour". Hence effectively implementing a "sniper fee" to discourage snipers--the idea being that by encouraging early bidders, you effectively raise the visible value of the item. Has anyone tried this?
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
In the big supply-demand chain, if you are bidding on high demand / low supply items then you'll get raked across the coals with last-minute sniping. But if you want tickets to tonight's Aerosmith, then that's what you're facing.
I'm into Magic cards (i.e. collectibles), where the bidding is often very different. For the most part e-bay doesn't have oodles of truly unique collectibles, just a few. If I'm looking for specific batch of Magic cards, I just set e-bay to e-mail me every couple of days when new auctions come up. When I find an auction I place my max bid and then I forget it. There's enough throughput on e-bay that I can just bid on the next one.
With a 50% variation on some similar auctions and various ending times (to foil snipers?), I don't have to watch over my bid. If I'm not getting my item for $X then I can raise my future bids or just keep trying. Again, these items are always coming up for auction, so this is ideal for the set it and leave it approach. Every once in a while, you'll even get a dead fish, where you're the only "real" bidder and you hit that 50% cheaper mark. I've bottom-fed a good part of my collection in this fashion.
In this case, the snipers just get their cards earlier (in exchange for paying more). And I stand the best chances of getting my goods for the price I'm willing to pay.
Maximum is probably just above what you're comfortable paying. So if your "maximum" is 10, and you think "I wouldn't quite be comfortable paying 12 for this", bid 12.
The chances of it going right up to 12 and stopping are pretty unlikely. If you get it for less, you'll feel good about yourself. If you lose by 10 cents, then you're happy you didn't end up paying 12, since you weren't comfortable with that anyway. If you get it dead on 12, then it's a small loss - but it's the least-likely result. There's generally a narrow range between "worth it" and "uncomfortable paying this".
I'd rather have my max picked out ahead of time than bother with sniping. It's not a game, it's not hunting - it's a purchase.
Last post!
It's a pretty standard finding. Bidder strategies will adjust to any changes in auction formats.
Standard English auctions, Dutch auctions, first price sealed bid auctions, second price sealed bid auctions all end up at pretty much the same price - they just get there by a different route. But English auctions (as well as second price sealed bid auctions) generally have the advantage of truthful revelation of valuation by the bidders.