Internet Explorer 7 Beta 3 Reviewed

An anonymous reader writes to mention a review of the latest Beta release for Internet Explorer 7 on Paul Thurrott's SuperSite. From the article: "While it's not enough to make me switch from Firefox yet--I still love certain Firefox features such as inline search--it's no longer an object of ridicule either. IE 7.0 Beta 3 includes huge functional and security advantages of IE 6 and is an absolute no brainer for anyone choosing to stick with IE. If you are an IE user, head over to the Microsoft Web site and pick up IE 7.0 Beta 3 today." ZDNet has some first impressions of the release as well.

Comments

a finer compliment

[yagu]

From the article (emphasis mine): "While it's not enough to make me switch from Firefox yet--I still love certain Firefox features such as inline search--it's no longer an object of ridicule either. "

A finer compliment (no longer an object of ridicule) couldn't be had. This from Thurrott, a Microsoft sychophant. So, it's come to this, Microsoft feints and jabs, feints and jabs, and after ten years (more?) of internet browsing that's how high the bar is set for them. I can't wait for Vista.

Re:a finer compliment

[heinousjay]

Well, to be fair (since you said 10 years or more) there was a period of time from the release of IE 4 to the release of 5.5 that it was essentially the best browser available. It's only since development basically stopped that it has been trounced so hard.

Re:a finer compliment

[Bogtha]

Or, to put it another way, as long as there was viable competition, Microsoft continually improved their browser. When Internet Explorer achieved its objective of killing the competition, Microsoft cancelled development and left it to rot. Now there is viable competition again, Microsoft is scrambling to get back in the game.

This is precisely why monopolies abusing their position to kill the competition is so harmful and why "it's a better product" is no defence.

Re:a finer compliment

[vistic]

i believe you meant "sycophant"... and not "sychophant", which is a crazy elephant... not to be confused with "psychopants" which were a 70's fad.

Re:a finer compliment

[malkavian]

There were a few browsers around in the 'Browser Wars' timeframe. The most common of which was Netscape. And Netscape was a 'Pay For' browser. In much the same way that Opera is now.
Microsoft basically cut the rug from under that. By dumping a product with the OS. In '98 and beyond, everyone that bought a PC already had a browser in. By putting the cost of the browser in with the OS, you'd already paid to have IE with your machine. Netscape didn't have a look in. So, in other words to get Netscape, you'd have to buy two browsers (if you'd bought windows). First IE, which was paid for in the OS price, then adding Netscape on top (if you bought the properly licensed version).
With revenues cut off at the knees, the company couldn't afford to throw money at research and development the way MS could (people were still buying Windows, so they were still selling browsers by default). So, the inevitable decline went on. As a company, you can't fight the bottomless purse (which is what MS had to fund their browser with, funding it from their profitable OS & Office side) who is dumping product for free.
They killed Netscape the company stone dead. It was sold eventually for a fraction of what it was worth as an open market company in a competitive environment.
And it's been languishing ever since.
Firefox, as an open source project, and an incredibly successful one, can compete on price, as it doesn't require the kind of funding that Netscape did as a company.
Opera does a good job of keeping it's brower around, but still, it's marginalised by MS having the browser in the OS, and also by Firefox. It's a hard fight to keep that running.
MS killed a lot of things. Jobs, tax revenues, competition. And the other browsers. It wasn't a beating, it was scorched earth policy. Nothing survives (even their own browser stagnated, thus, marking the segment of the market as 'dead').
But like all scorched earth, in time, shoots grow again, and eventually an ecosystem can develop once more (Firefox, Opera etc).
We just see if MS gets to play the same cards again this time round.

Re:a finer compliment

[clontzman]

And Netscape was a 'Pay For' browser. In much the same way that Opera is now.

Netscape was licensed as a 'pay for' browser, but it was purely by license. Most people (and businesses) ran the freely downloadable version and very, very few people ever paid for Netscape (unless they bought it with a book). It's like saying that WinZip is a 'pay for' product -- what you're saying is factual, but in practice most people who use it aren't paying customers.

Netscape's business model was to sell server software, not browsers. IIS and Apache did them more damage than IE did.

Also, Opera's completely free now.

How strange...

[scgops]

...to see an article on /. saying something positive about a Microsoft product.

I guess we'll start seeing flames any minute now...

CSS?

[aymanh]

I did a quick search for "CSS" in those reviews, got zero hits. I skimmed through the lists of enhancements, and looks like almost everything has been available in other browsers for years. 'Nuff said.

Not Feature Complete

[Nicholas Evans]

IE7 may have all of the features Microsoft wanted it to have, but it still lacks reak XHTML support.

They've had how many years to get their shit together, but we're still stuck with 'sorry, our implementation is a hack even though we helped write the standard, maybe you'll get THE BASIC FEATURES OF THE WORLD WIDE WEB implemented in 2015!

News for nerds! Ahah

[drspliff]

Uhh, this is a technology site for nerds isn't it? I was expecting a real review of a web browser, not this pseudo-tech magazine style 'yes this product exists' kind of review. The amount of times he mentions 'feature complete' also really bugs me.

Review Outline:
  - They scraped some of the crap off IE 6
  - They've "improved it under the cover".
  - It's now got features that most other browsers have.
  - It'll be released when vista comes around.

What the review should've had:
  - Memory usage comparisons
  - Backwards compatibility
  - Some screenshots of how it miserably fails the ACID2 test.
  - Does it finally have 32-bit colour PNG support?
  - Whats all this 7+ crap and why is it different?

Sorry Paul you're coming across as a hardcore Microsoftie in it for the money rather than trying to give an honest opinion, hope you make lots of money from advertising, but this is a piss poor review.. maybe I should so it to my grandma so she's got something to discuss while she's getting her hair done!

Re:News for nerds! Ahah

[toriver]

ACID2 test: It fails miserably, just like every other browser out there

Except Konqueror, Safari and Opera 9.

Re:News for nerds! Ahah

[jZnat]

Uh, Konqueror, Safari, and Opera all fully pass the Acid 2 test, and Firefox passes it on the reflow branch (a specific development branch). Thanks for playing.

Re:News for nerds! Ahah

[Doomstalk]

you know what...fuck the acid test.the fact that only 3 browsers pass it and that's just because they wanted to pass this particular test...it TELLS YOU SOMETHING.
it's unrealistic.

The ACID test isn't just some sort of browser back patting wankfest. Well ok, it sorta is, but it's still important. The point is that the internet is based off of standards. All browsers that feature the latest HTML and CSS specs should display pages in exactly the same way. If they don't interoperability goes out the window, and we get hack-laden web sites (a-la sites that depend on bugs in IE6 to make sure they display correctly across all browsers), or worse yet, browser specific web sites. ACID2 is designed to make it easy to test consistency across browsers.

if the functions that are implemented there were so importat every browser would support them.they don't... [sic] there for nobody really gives a fuck about the acid test.

That's a fallacy, pure and simple. A lot of web developers would LOVE to take advantage of the features CSS 2.0 has to offer. The reason why they're so rarely used has nothing to do with their usefulness, and a lot to do with Internet Explorer. Microsoft's browser is notorious for inaccurate, incomplete, or nonexistent standards compliance, but it's still the most popular around. Until Microsoft gets off its duff and makes its browser compliant with modern standards, the internet will be stuck with a 6 year old version of the W3C conventions, and a buggy one at that. If/when they get it done, I'm sure a lot of the features ACID tests will go into wide use.

Re:Anyone have

[aymanh]

Someone linked to this list in a previous discussion, one of my favorite quotes:

Obviously, we have heard the feedback asking us to be more standards-compliant in our rendering behavior. We must balance this ask with the need of our customers (and end users) to have their pages not be broken. To find a balance we introduced a strict mode in IE6 that lets authors opt in into the more standards compliant rendering (and, if you're putting in a modern DOCTYPE declaration, you're being opted in automatically). Pages authored under non-strict mode (or "quirks mode") will not change behavior in IE7 - so the fixes we've done to be more CSS compliant won't appear under quirks mode.

So wannabe web designers will still be able to create broken pages and get away with it on IE6 AND IE7.

Re:Anyone have

[marcello_dl]

Ha! I know the answer, it will have 100% support of:
- Microsoft HTML(tm)
- Microsoft CSS4(tm)
- Microsoft XHTML(tm)
- Microsoft XForms and ActiveX and other eXotic eXtensions.

No help for web developers

[ecc962]

"If you are an IE user, head over to the Microsoft Web site and pick up IE 7.0 Beta 3 today."

Except of course unless you're a web developer in which case you still need IE6 on your machine for testing those delightful CSS quirks and, as ever, you can't run two versions of IE on the same machine.

It's odd. MS's developer tools are generally pretty good but they do seem to fall down a bit for those of us who write web applications, especially given the recent rise in far more complex scripting and so on with the whole Web 2.0 buzz / AJAX thing. Oh well.

meh

[ElephanTS]

Can't wait to get my hands on tabbed browsing. It sounds really good.

my review

[no-body]

- go and download the thing
First have to validate the system about it's "genuity" and get a key and who knows what it's doing during that process, in any case some sniffing around is done and probably the systems Serial number is recorded.
Once the key is gotten and pasted into a field, download startd...
Then execute the install file - first the system will need to be upgraded, with the "Automatic" upgrade option prominently displayed.
No, I want to do the manual install and see what is coming onto the system.
Well, well, well -the Windows Genuine Advantage is one package in a bundle and _has_ to be installed.

Once the system is upgraded with all the goodies, the IE7B3 installer runs but complains that there is already a previous version of IE7B? installed and it has to be uninstalled first from the Control Panel.But this program has no uninstaller!!

Result: Live with the old IE7 version and have the WGA phone home every day...

Does this suck? Yesssss!!!
M$ is digging their own grave with this type of BS!

Re:my review

[edflyerssn007]

Start -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs -> Windows Internet Explorer Beta 2.

Follow the wizard to uninstall.

You're welcome. -ed

Re:Anyone have

[rtilghman]

I haven't tested Beta3, but without looking I can tell you that the standards support is relatively unchanged since Beta2. The CSS team for IE7 has stated, point blank, that virtually no further changes will be made to the engine on this front. A freaking catastrophe.

Why is this a nightmare? In order to avoid unnecessary workarounds MS eliminated ALL (yes, ALL) the workarounds used by client side devs to solve the core issues with regard to how MS renders CSS and HTML. This includes things like the guillotene bug (where content and images inside a floated box just disappear enitely), etc. However, THEY DIDN'T FIX ANY OF THE BUGS.

This means that we're now going to be headed back to the days when we have to render separately for different browsers, meaning XSLT is going to see a resurgence, costs are going to double, and folks are going to have to go back and recode all their existing apps so they render correctly in IE7.

Welcome to the wonderful world of IE development. By incompetent retards, for incompetent retards, led by a visionary bonobo chimp.

-rt

Very positive!

[mangu]

saying something positive about a Microsoft product

Hmmm, let's see:

"it's not enough to make me switch from Firefox"

"it's no longer an object of ridicule either"

"...for anyone choosing to stick with IE"

"If you are an IE user..."

"I still feel that most users would be better off with a more feature-packed browser like Firefox"

I'm not quite sure that "non-negative" is the same as "positive". I also need to look up on the definition for "lukewarm reception".

Re:VALIDATE IT?????

[nurb432]

Do you really think they care about feedback? They will just shove it down Windows user's throats anyway. the average person doesnt really have a choice.

This is great news

[sl4shd0rk]

"Internet Explorer 7.0 Beta 3 is a solid, feature-packed browser that all IE users should flock to immediately"

I am going to switch immediately, and you should too.

It breaks the new slashdot layout

[melted]

Installed it yesterday on my old Dell laptop. Turns out it breaks slashdot layout, sidebars to be exact. WTF? I thought it was supposed to have better support for CSS, not worse!

the Right Direction

[spykemail]

This is definitely a step in the right direction (the Firefox direction that is). I agree that anyone who insists upon using Internet Explorer should get this the moment it's released. Now if only Microsoft can start adopting important standards in 10 years.

The problem I have is this: if IE7 reverses the spread of Firefox, what's to stop Microsoft from repeating history and ceasing all serious development again?

Use FileMirrors to find download URLs

[enosys]

When a website wants you to go through a bunch of hoops like WGA to download a file there's often a very simple way around that. You can probably find the URL on FileMirrors. If it's something popular like an IE beta it'll probably be on the front page so you won't even have to search. Oh, and here's a link to IE7BETA3-WindowsXP-x86-enu.exe.

Software freedom still matters more than features.

[jbn-o]

"While it's not enough to make me switch from Firefox yet--I still love certain Firefox features such as inline search--it's no longer an object of ridicule either. IE 7.0 Beta 3 includes huge functional and security advantages of IE 6 and is an absolute no brainer for anyone choosing to stick with IE."

MSIE is proprietary. Those three words cover a great deal of what is wrong with Thurrott's review, even granting him his status as a Microsoft sycophant (as another poster pointed out).

• Security advantages are largely unknown because nobody can inspect the program. We'll undoubtedly learn that MSIE 7 is riddled with security problems which Microsoft will be slow to fix, if they fix them at all. Nobody else will be allowed to improve the program and distribute their improved software. These freedoms are what proprietors deny you and your community. This is the well-established pattern of many proprietors, Microsoft being only one. I seem to recall that MSIE 7 had security problems well before this pre-release.
• Yes, being "no longer an object of ridicule" is damning with faint praise.
• Feature counts are what's wrong with a lot of corporate media; covering the horserace without questioning the underlying, more important, reasons why things are the way they are. Covering the underlying reasons would expose that software freedom is more important than feature counts, and in particular with web browsers one need not give up one to get the other. The Mozilla Foundation has been lacking here too; they don't talk about software freedom as a reason to favor Firefox (or any of their other fine programs). They are buying into a contest that they'll undoubtedly lose to a more monied and advertisement-conscious organization—Microsoft—and we'll see this when MSIE regains significant numbers of the popularity percentage points it lost to Firefox over the last few years.

Missing a crucial point

[exKingZog]

People here have missed an important point: IE7 finally supports such basic CSS properties as position: fixed, min/max-width and fixes a few of the more annoying bugs; it also now supports PNG alpha transparency.

Once IE7 becomes widely adopted, we can finally start USING some of these features without worrying about them not being compatible with IE. We need to encourage people to upgrade, and if they won't upgrade to Firefox or Opera, then at least they can upgrade to IE7 and give us an easier time developing web pages.