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The Shallow Roots of the Human Family Tree

An anonymous reader writes to mention an AP story about research discussing the relatively recent origins of every human on earth. Despite the age of our species, every human on earth can trace their ancestry back to someone who may have lived as recently as the Golden Age of Greece (around 500 BC). From the article: "It is human nature to wonder about our ancestors -- who they were, where they lived, what they were like. People trace their genealogy, collect antiques and visit historical sites hoping to capture just a glimpse of those who came before, to locate themselves in the sweep of history and position themselves in the web of human existence. But few people realize just how intricately that web connects them not just to people living on the planet today, but to everyone who ever lived."

22 of 760 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Family Tree Grafting by Peyna · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Makes you wonder why children take the male's family name

    A: You live in a patrilineal society.

    Not everyone has live or currently does live in such a society. Arguably, matrilinealization is the more intuitive method, becase you can be pretty certain who is the mother of the child.

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    What?
  2. Easy to forget by quokkapox · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If you don't explicitly document your ancestry, you'll forget it. There are things my parents don't know which my remaining grandparent has long since forgotten. We have family pictures of people we don't know anymore.

    The fact is, we live in the present, and that's what is important. I couldn't care less if your great-great-grandmother was the queen of spain, or if your grandfather's second cousin's dad was a slave. That needn't have any effect on how I interact with you.

    --
    it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
    1. Re:Easy to forget by rinkjustice · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Knowing your past helps understand who you are, and what you'll likely be up against in the future. If, by chance, you suffer from a particular disease or disorder, it's important to know what side of the family you inherited that genetic malady from, and how seriously it affected those ancestors. It helps you feel less weird and alone, and if your ancestors lived to a ripe old age, then that should give you hope for the future.

      It's also "a good thing"TM not to be forgotten forever in time. Your ancestors may have lived intersting lives and have interesting stories to tell. They were likey good people who don't deserve to be sloughed off into distant and lost memory.

  3. Christians claim to be children of Abraham? by ems2 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It means when Muslims, Jews or Christians claim to be children of Abraham, they are all bound to be right.
    I know Jews and some Muslims claim to be children of Abraham but I never heard of a group of Christians claiming to be children of Abraham.
    1. Re:Christians claim to be children of Abraham? by Khomar · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Never fear. Had the Prophet met Christ, there would only be one of those religions around today -- that whose leader wasn't killed in the ensuing war.

      I found your comment somewhat comical considering that Jesus did die. Not from a war, but because he allowed the leaders of his day capture and crucify him. He then rose from the dead which marked the beginning of Christianity. Given his teaching, the Christians would not have been the ones fighting the war.

      If the proposed situation did occur, the muslims would have probably attacked the Christians (just as the Romans did), but the Christian church has always grown the fastest when it has been under the greatest persecution. Net result: the large Christian church you see today. Just because one side can kill better than the other does not mean that the more peaceful side will not win in the end.*

      * Admittedly, many people have used the name of Christ to justify their wars (just as people always some kind of justification for what they want to do that is wrong), but I think you would find that very rarely was it truly done in the name of Christ and in keeping with His teachings.

      --

      I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!

    2. Re:Christians claim to be children of Abraham? by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Christianity became a successful religion only because of its follower's willingness to use violence to capture, torture and kill their opponents. By infiltrating the halls of power and gaining influence over the secular means of repression they were able to extend their reach even further.

      You have it around the wrong way. Christianity in general spread first to a region, then ambitious political men rode it to try and achieve their own agendas. Trying to force religion on a population against their will is an act of futility. Most of the violence you're talking about (the notable incidents are the various crusades and the Spanish inquisition) were fueled by politics, with a Christian sugar-coating to stop people complaining about them.

      Also, assuming the current records of Jesus' words are reasonably accurate (and if you have any that are more accurate I'd like to know) it's certain that he did not see himself as a prophet to the Jewish people. In Matthew, for instance, in what is known as the Great Commission, Jesus tells his disciples "therefore go and make disciples of all nations". His dealings with other people (say, the Samaritan woman at the well) also make it clear that his message is not exlusively for Jews, although his personal ministry was generally in Israel, and hence, he had a largely Jewish audience.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    3. Re:Christians claim to be children of Abraham? by Triv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      oh. my. god. Or rather, apparently, yours.

      It was a joke. It was funny. I dare you to find a situation where god leading a spectacular, heavenly rendition of the Hokey Pokey ISN'T funny.

      Chill, dude. Seriously. You're gonna give yourself an aneurism if you're not careful.

      Triv

  4. The start of a long road by 99luftballon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Given the worldwide geographical spread of Homo sapiens it's a believable number. As recently as 75,000 years ago we lost around two thirds of the population in the Lake Toba eruption and there have been a fair few fluctuations since then.

    The stuff later in the article is interesting. One question it raises is the effect of the increases in travel will have on the genetic mix. Traditionally the vast majority of the population married someone within a small radius of their initial home. As larger numbers of people move further away there could be some interesting effects.

    1. Re:The start of a long road by El+Torico · · Score: 4, Insightful

      500 BC vs. 73,000 BC? That's a very big difference, and I'm inclined to believe the latter number. The article gives ranges; one is a very wide range of 5000 BC to 1 AD. However, the article is too vague to find out what rates of migration were used and why they were used. It would be interesting to see if actual historical migrations were used. There are a lot of other variables that need to be taken into account.

      Also, how well does this match up with the "genetic drift model"? The numbers don't agree, so further refinement is necessary.

      Based on another article on this, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/04093 0122428.htm, it appears that the point isn't "All of us have one common ancestor in the collective sense, but that any two of us, regardless of distance, have a common ancestor who lived at about that time." That's just the way I interpret it.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    2. Re:The start of a long road by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is, they start with a set of mathematical assumptions and then do calculations and get this result. As with most purely computational studies that get outlandish results, I'm more likely to question the assumptions than believe the result. And I say this as someone who works with a lot of stats and probabality in my profession, and having made the same mistakes. The thing is, like all theorists, having made the prediction they need to find genetic evidence to back it up. Unfortunately, they're not going to find it.

      The studies I've seen that actually studied genetic evidence give a figure closer to 10s of thousands of years.. There's no way it's as short as the 2000 years they claim, just based on common sense - look at the different peoples in different regions - they most certainly *don't* share the same gene pool. Also, there are multiple versions of the Y chromosome floating around that don't converge that recently.

      The Genographic Project is currently estimating 60K years for the "Genographic Adam" from whom everyone on earth is dsecended, not 2K. I think you may be correct on the interpretation of "any two people are connected by some common ancestor 2000-5000 years ago," which is just a modification of the Kevin Bacon game. It's not the same as "everyone is descended from some common person 2000-5000 years ago - and from the interpretation in the /. article, that's definitely what they mean. And it's dead wrong.

  5. Re:Eww yuck! by kimvette · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No it wouldn't. Despite the wealth of information available today, racists will consider people with different color skin or slightly differently shaped eyes to be less than human. There is no rationale behind it whatsoever and having a pedigree to show that say, (for the most common example) a white supremacist and Martin Luther King Jr. share common ancestors 60 or so generations back would not change their attitudes.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  6. Re:Family Tree Grafting by radtea · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The test is probably real, it's just that there isn't really set "race genes."

    That's because "race" is far more of a social phenomenon than a biological phenomenon, and the obsession with defining or determining which race a person belongs to is something that does not stem from anything other than politics and sociology. It is a question that no biologist would ever think to ask, because race is not a useful or interesting biological category. There are two reasons for this.

    The first is that few if any racial characteristics show any significant discontinuity in the population at large--the lightest-skinned "black" person is lighter than the darkest-skinned "white" person. Without such discontinuities the idea of race becomes entirely arbitrary, based on a line drawn for purely political purposes.

    The second is that insofar as there are relatively-disconnected pools of genes in the human population, they are small and don't last very long because of our aggressive pursuit of exogamy (breeding outside our kin-group). Most primate species practice inbreeding more than outbreeding. In humans it is rather the opposite. In simple terms, most of us are of mixed race. This is especially true of North Americans with regard to mixing of blacks and whites, for well-known reasons.

    Anyone who believes that "racial purity" is either possible or desirable is merely proclaiming their ignorance of human biology.

    --
    Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  7. Re:Eww yuck! by radtea · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is no rationale behind it whatsoever and having a pedigree to show that say, (for the most common example) a white supremacist and Martin Luther King Jr. share common ancestors 60 or so generations back would not change their attitudes.

    I agree it won't change their attitude, but given the deplorable fact of extensive inter-breeding between mostly black slaves and mostly-white plantation owners prior to the Civil War, it is extremely likely that a white supremacist in the U.S. South and Martin Luther King Jr. would share a common ancestor a lot less than 60 generations back.

    The idea of "racial purity" is a myth for stupid people, and as more knowledge of human genetics and human ancestry accumulates this will become so obvious that even people stupid enough to be racists will have a hard time avoiding it. We will find there is a literal handful of "racially pure" people on the planet, and they will be from isolated tribes who simply lacked the opportunity to practice the vigorous out-breeding that is part of humanity's evolutionary modus operandi.

    --
    Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  8. Re:Additional Startling Implication: Genetic Disea by Grym · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Humans, before we had modern technology that allowed us to travel great distances in short periods of time, had very little contact outside of our own tribes. To put, humans lived within their own tribes for hundreds of thousands of years.

    I've just completed a bachelor's degree in Biology and a graduate level course in evolutionary genetics and I have never heard of these kinds of statements from any scientific source. In fact, the only place I have heard them from were from people who stress racial purity and--more specifically--white supremacy.

    Regardless, what you're saying is ridiculous. Humans are the most prolific mammal on the face of the earth; we're everywhere. We are this way because it is our nature to be both curious and aggressive. You're not giving our ancestors or the human drive for exploration enough credit. Besides, even under your theory, how did the individual ethnic groups arrive in their respective regions were it not for this migration, mmm? (Hint for the uninitiated: the typical answer to this is "God put them there.")

    For any human population a certain number of migrants is a given. This inevitably creates geneflow between populations which are otherwise isolated. The result is that human populations are generally homogenous, despite the great geographic distances separating the groups themselves. A very extreme example of this effect is demonstrated with ring species, whose sub-populations are actually infertile with one another (clearly not the case with people) but still maintain a common character (ie. they do not diverge) because of geneflow.

    To be certain, there are differences between racial and ethnic groups, but these differences are superficial and do not reflect the genome as a whole. Scientific studies of DNA microsattelites have confirmed this time and time again. In fact, the study in the article is just one of many.

    . Why do you think the traits of various ethnic groups were selected? Do you think they are randomly arranged? No, they were selected based on adaptations to the environment of that group of people. Mixing in differnet traits that do not fit well into that environment will result in those traits being removed.

    Yes and no. What you're talking about is a homozygous advantage. For many populations this is true--but not for people. Why? Because we aren't necessarily beholden to our environments anymore. If you're less tolerant of the sun, you can wear sunscreen. If you're less tolerant to the heat, you can get air conditioning. Even in the most extreme cases, homozygous advantage doesn't apply. For instance, populations that have lived in the Andes mountains have developed genetic adaptations that allow them to breathe in much lower concentrations of oxygen than normally allowed. And yet, still, most tourists to these mountains are still able to survive (and even enjoy themselves) by supplementing their oxygen.

    But if no the environment, what are humans subject to? Their own genes. To some extent this can be compensated for. (I know I for one would probably have died in ages past because of my nearsightedness.) But even with today's technology, genetic defects are often untreatable and sometimes fatal. This is particularly relevant in the case of recessive genetic disorders, where the extreme effects of a homozygous recessive trait can be masked. This creates a situation where heterozygotes are superior, because of a reduced likelihood of genetic disorders. I'm pretty sure this is the scientific basis of the OP's more-simplified statements.

    In practice, however, this is often difficult to take advantage of because our assignment of race is completely arbitrary and based upon the phenotype of an individual and not his or her genotype. So, for instance, a black and white couple in Claxton, Georgia (a historic site of genetic samplin

  9. Re:Indeed, Jewishness by the+phantom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Offtopic, but I feel it is important to point out that there is a great deal of difference between matrilineal organization and matriarchy. Matriarchy is where the women hold political, social, and/or religious power. In a matriarchy, the women are the primary owners of private property, and make the decisions that affect what the group will do. There are almost no examples of matriarchal societies in human history. That is not to say that a few have not popped up, but they are very rare and far between. On the other hand, a matrilineal society is one in which inheritence (of name, property, clan association, moity association, position, &c.) is passed through the female line. Generally, men are still in charge, but relationships are tracked by way of the female line.

  10. Re:What native Tasmanian population? by cammoblammo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Truganini was the last Tasmanian.

    This one really gets Native Tasmanians going. True, there don't seem to be any left of non-mixed descent, but horny white sealers made damned sure the race didn't die out completely. There are still quite a few Tasmanian Aborigines in Tasmania today, and they get really upset when they get told they don't exist.

    A good argument for matrilinealism!

    --

    Cogito, ergo sig.

  11. Re:Family Tree Grafting by Cyryathorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Arguably, matrilinealization is the more intuitive method, becase you can be pretty certain who is the mother of the child."

    ... which is a good reason why family names get passed down patrilinearly! It gives the dad a stake in the life of the child, and it gives the child a claim on a particular father (even if it's the wrong one, biologically speaking).

  12. Re:Family Tree Grafting by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's an easy solution. Assume that Mrs. Smith marries Mr. Jones. They take the family name Jones-Smith. Their daughters, upon marrying, drop "Jones" (the father's name). Their sons, upon marrying, drop "Smith" (the mother's name). So if Ms. Jones-Smith marries Mr. Jefferson-Clark, they couple takes the name Jefferson-Smith. A person would then share a name with their father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc, as well as their mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, etc.

    You've described the essence of the traditional naming scheme in Iberia (Spain, Portugal). There's inconsistency about whether the paternal name comes first or last. The upper classes often preserve more than just two names, and sometimes tack on "de" and a place name. Most people just use two family names, though, which probably saves them a lot of writing over a lifetime.

    Of course, in most of Europe, family names often only go back a century or two, before which people had just a given name that could be augmented by a profession or place of origin or a descriptive term. Or just "'s son", which is often specific enough in a typical village. In Iceland, they still don't use family names, just patronymics.

    I know a number of people from Scandinavia who have a specific last name because their parents or grandparents bought a farm, and they adopted the farm's name (whose origin is often lost to history).

    A similar thing was done by the UK's royal family. They adopted the family name Windsor in 1917 to dissociate themselves from their German ancestors. They were at war with Germany, and wanted to sound English. Windsor was, of course, the name of one of their castles. A quick google for "Windsor royal family name" gets nearly 3 million hits, so you can easily read lots of takes on this particular family name.

    My favorite name from my family tree is Cameron, which is a simplified spelling of a Scots Gaelic phrase meaning "broken nose". It seems there was this particularly belligerent fellow who was a clan leader, and a lot of his relatives decided to adopt that insult as their name, as a way of thumbing their noses at the taunters.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  13. Re:Family Tree Grafting by The+Nordic+Beast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article fails to consider the Australian Aborigines, who crossed into Australia via a land bridge from Asia around 40,000 - 50,000 years ago. It's an interesting mathematical trick, but their result is so obviously empirically false, so I doubt their research even after excluding the Aborigines and other populations known to have been isolated from the rest of the world for many thousands of years. The parent gets the time period for the arrival of Aborigines in Australia correct, but is incorrect in asserting that they walked there over a land bridge. A no time during hominid history would you have been able to walk to Australia. The deep water trench between Bali and Lombock and between Borneo and Sulawesi (the so-called Wallace Line) marks fartherest you could have walked from Asia. Given there's generally been deep water between Timor and the rest of the eastern Indonesia archepelago and between Timor and Australia, the original Aborginies probably had to make three pretty sizeable water-borne leaps at a long before there is any archelogical evidence anywhere that people are using boats. This makes the mere existence of Aborigines in the Australia for that length of time is pretty astounding.

  14. Re:Family Tree Grafting by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have always expected that there would be a movement where a man and woman get married and pick a new family name.

    I know a number of couples who have done this. Actually, in each case they combined their original names in some clever way to make a combinatin that they liked.

    I've heard a number of lawyers explain that in all US states except Louisianna, the laws about names go back to English Common Law, where the rule was that you can use any name you like, as long as it isn't fraudulent. You can't pick a famous name and pretend to be that person, and you can't change your name to escape debts or prosecution. But if your name change (as in a marriage) is published in the official records, that constitutes public notice and you can't be charged with fraud after the change is officially published. They usually say this to explain why there's no legal problem with a woman keeping her original name after marriage. But I've also heard this used to explain why a couple that makes up a new family name and writes it on their marriage registration is fully within their rights, regardless of what ideas others may have on such things. And, historically speaking, neither practice is especially new or unusual in the English-speaking parts of the world.

    Funny story: One such couple is two women who recently married here in Massachusetts, where it has been legal for a few years (and so far it hasn't destroyed any mixed-sex marriages that anyone knows of, even if a lot of men think they're both very attractive women ;-). They recently renewed their passports, and sent in requests for a name change to their new combined last name. One was accepted (because they are legally married), one was rejected (because US federal law doesn't recognize same-sex marriage). Two different bureaucrats, two different decisions in exactly the same case.

    Of course, having a different name on your passport and other ids isn't at all unusual. Newly-married women routinely find themselves in this situation, and it doesn't seriously interfere with travelling. This couple mostly think it's funny. "Guess what those idiots in the passport office just did."

    What I'm looking forward to is the fun of watching US law adapt to the slowly-growing Muslim population. I can see a couple going off to Morrocco or Indonesia on vacation and coming home with a new wife in the family. I wouldn't be surprised if this has happened already, but they kept it quiet and didn't try to get official papers changed. But it's just a matter of time, and it'll be fun to follow the outrage and consternation from the bigot crowd, while the lawyers calmly ask what laws have been broken ...

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  15. Re:Family Tree Grafting by plunge · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Um, what the heck are you talking about? I'm not an expert in transplantation, but I'm familiar enough to know that what you're saying sounds like complete BS: a person's race is neither predictive nor particularly significant compared to all the other important factors. You're talking as if race were more important than blood type, which is pure crazytalk. I don't know what doctors told you this, but it sounds more like you heard what you wanted to hear.

    Differences in race are both fairly minor AND have more variance than they do absolute differences. Lactose tolerance is a particularly goofy example, because it's both such a minor difference AND still not as universal as you make it out. Not all Asians are lactose intolerant, and not all people from Wales aren't. There is no medical feature that's both universal to and unique to any "racial" group.

    I knew that racism was still a major cultural problem in China, but this takes the cake.

  16. Re:Family Tree Grafting by Tatarize · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >>Although there is no gene/set of genes that determine "race" because it is a social concept, the term is most likely used when a certain combination of genes that is prevalent in a "race" is found in a person.

    The point is that there is no gene or set of genes which determines race. Rather there are frequencies of genes which differ by region. In the tropic areas darker skin is more common, this is not to suggest there is a gene or gene set is unique to any group. Certainly there are probably a number of people commonly thought of as white who have a functional gene for skin melanin, just as the other allele is very likely present within other populations.

    The point is, within the gene pool the divisions of "race" are artificial. Subsets of genes within a certain range are not a valid basis for anything. This is the reason the test cited by the above post is due to fail, because you can't mark any gene as being restricted to any one "race".

    Genetically we are not white, black, asian, mexican, hawaiian, german, dutch, danish, irish, middle eastern, or jewish... we are human. The only time race matters is when people think that race matters.

    You can however, very accurately trace lineage with genetics. Given the Y chromosomes of every man on the planet you could track down anybody's family and how related they are to any other man. Given mitochrondrial DNA you could do the same for the maternal line. Given all the genes as a whole and all the junk DNA in them, you could track down anybody and exactly how they fit into global family tree. We could trace down each individual gene to it's source and assemble an amazingly complete ancestor list (nameless ofcourse) in the process.

    Genes are very very real, races on the other hand are pretty much nonsense.

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    It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.