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AP Looks at Piracy, Misses the Point

TechDirt is reporting that the Associated Press has covered several stories recently about what a "huge threat" piracy is in other countries. This article, however, argues that they have perhaps missed out on the whole story by ignoring the other side of the coin. From the article: "the AP doesn't bother to mention how all that piracy helped created new and different business models for musicians in China that let them thrive despite the piracy (actually, in some cases, because of it). Nor does the AP bother to mention how software piracy helped boost certain aspects of the industry in China by decreasing the cost of inputs."

16 of 406 comments (clear)

  1. Is this a surprise? by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since the AP believes its own business model is based on copyright, and gives bloggers who repost their articles a hard time, is it any surprise that they would defend copyright?

    1. Re:Is this a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Let's look at the simple black and white of the matter. Piracy is theft. Whether you agree with it or not, it's theft.


      Assuming you mean unathorised copying of copyrighted works then no, it's not theft. It is, however, illegal in most jurisdictions relevant to anyone here.

      So, according to the OP, theft is good.


      For Christ's sake. Anybody can do better than that at elementary logic. EVEN if we were to concede that copyright infringement is theft and EVEN if the previous poster had said "copyright infringement is good" that would at most lead to the conclusion that the previous poster believes that SOME theft is good. Which, of course, any reasoning person believes in any event.

      If the subject under discussion was the morality of theft then the interesting question is more along the lines of "when is theft justified", not whether it ever can be.
    2. Re:Is this a surprise? by NickFortune · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Piracy is theft. Whether you agree with it or not, it's theft.

      Agreed. In fact it's worse than that. Piracy is armed robbery with violence. On the high seas, to boot.

      However, copyright violation (which is what we seem to be discussing here) remains copyright violation. And that's also "whether you agree with it or not"

      So, according to the OP, theft is good.

      Well, if it turns out that TFA really is discussing the violent seizure of goods at sea, then I'd have to conceed you were right. Otherwise, the main point I took was that there remains considerable room for debate as to the actual vs perceived benefits of current copyright legislation.

      That's certainly a new one for me.

      Splendid! There's nothing like exposure to new ideas to widen ones horizons. Don't you think?

      --
      Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
    3. Re:Is this a surprise? by MustardMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Funny, I didn't see the grandparent arguing that it was OK. I saw him arguing the idiotic use of the word "piracy", and even more, arguing the idiotic statement that copyright infringement is "theft". Whether it's OK or not to a given person depends on that specific person's set of values - it sure as fuck isn't the same thing as theft, though, which just about anyone can agree is a bad thing.

    4. Re:Is this a surprise? by malkavian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, I've made a few complaints to the Advertising Standards Authority (over here in the UK).
      Adverts are allowed to be 'economical' with the truth, but they're not allowed to outright lie. Otherwise, it comes under 'false advertising', and the involved companies can get spanked quite hard.
      The whole 'Piracy is theft' slogan, put large on the screen is a bare faced lie.
      At the moment, I'd hazard a guess that not a lot of people complain about this, but, given a wider base of complainers, perhaps the ASA will wake up and tell the entertainment industry that it's a bad thing to put on the screens.

      Incidentally, there's another ad going round in the cinemas here, about not getting 'pre release' pirate movies..
      I could disagree with them on the quality issue, but they keep stating the rest of it is all about the experience of going to the show on the big screen, and I'm 100% behind them on that. I wish, if they had to do the whole brainwashing/indoctrination thing, that they'd actually pick a rational reason, not the knee jerk "Black is white because we say so. Disbelieve us and we'll beat you with a stick." approach.

    5. Re:Is this a surprise? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Too many sources have too much of a one-faced approach to the story

      No, the problem is that they have the same one faced approach.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  2. Did AP also miss.... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

    reporting on how well glaziers, builders, carpenters and building merchants also did in New Orleans after Katrina?

  3. inputs of production by hardwarehacker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You have a good point, but let's take it one step further. In a developed country, such as the US, capital (software in this case)is relatively inexpensive and labor is relatively expensive (ie why we have H1B visas).
    Now in the case of a developing nation, such as China, labor is relatively inexpensive and capital is relatively expensive. Numerous microeconomic models have different ways of combining capital and labor which yields output. The important thing here is that "cost" of captial goods are often the limiting factor for a developing nation. Piracy does lower this cost allowing developing nations to deliver capital intense (techy) goods at a lower per-unit cost. So one could make the arguement that by people in developed countries (such as the US) they are in effect allowing developing nations to produce good at an artifically lower price. However I don't see how lowering the price of music/videos much effect on a developed nation ...

  4. Re:So let me get this straight... by honkycat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You raise some very interesting points.

    The thing that I think makes this such a difficult problem is that, it would seem, the music/movie/entertainment industry as it is and has been since the middle of last century (ie, since the advent of practical mechanical/electronic publication of music/movies/etc) is built on a model that fundamentally requires that high-quality duplication be expensive. That is no longer true. As a result, one of two things will happen. Either the system will be changed so that it IS once again expensive to duplicate these products, or the production system will change to be compatible with free or near-free copying.

    The legal wrangling that's been going on is all essentially trying to make duplication expensive. It's not technically expensive any more, so the powers that be are adding legal and social costs (through laws or public villification of offenders). They're also trying to make it technically expensive through artificial means (copy protecting hardware, e.g.).

    In my opinion, this is destined to fail. I don't believe you can achieve the level of enforcement necessary to rub out piracy (arrrrr) or the technical sophistication to outwit all the world's engineers who want to make a high-quality copy of a file they possess. The cat is out of the bag, technologically, and it ain't going back in.

    It's a scary prospect, both for the entertainment producers and for the end users. No one knows what a market compatible with near-free duplication costs will support. It's never been done before. The producers stand to lose a lot, since they can't predict where to go to protect their interests in this unknown environment. The end users also stand to lose since it is quite possible that the number of artists who can be supported will fall drastically. Of course, it could end up being better for everyone in the long run. But it's really pretty close to impossible to predict.

    Anyway, just some thoughts. I don't have any prescriptive answers for how to deal with this phase change. The best I can do is urge copyright reform to help society face up to the fact that free and easy copying is going to be the way of the future and hope that we can responsibly manage the transition.

    Oh, and screw the **AA. :-)

  5. Re:Yes, you idiot, it's defined in US Code as "the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I followed a few links from that Google search but failed to find a single one that pointed to a definition in the US code that included copyright infringement as theft. If there is a link there then please post it. Otherwise stop calling a spade a theft.

  6. Piracy Undermines Culture by ObligatoryUserName · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Tim Wu just had an article on Slate last week about how China is trying to grow their own film industry.

    One of the interesting points: China has to orient (no pun intended) their films to an American audience because rampant piracy in China means that there isn't enough of a local market to support Chinese films.

    I've heard the same thing from Chinese video game makers, they have to make games that will sell in places where copyright is to some degree respected because they would starve trying to live off the money they can make in their home market.

    If everyone pirated everything we would have no Lord of the Rings movies, no video games like Halo or Grand Theft Auto -- we'd still have small indy films and subscription games like WoW, but piracy only works now because it's a group of parasites feeding off media that the rest of us pay for.

  7. You've got to be kidding, right? by catdevnull · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Missed the point? You've got to be kidding me.

    Do the math: AP provides stories to publishers. Publishers are owned by large companies who publish stuff--like books, music, movies.

    Did you REALLY expect them to bite the hand that feeds them?
    Why would they publish a story that favors piracy helping people when they could push the agenda their way to protect the interests of the corporations pirates are hurting?

    Look--piracy is stealing no matter what kind of spit shine you put on it. Are the BSA, MPAA, and RIAA going a bit over the top about it? Yes. Does that somehow make piracy right? No. It's still stealing. Just because the AP isn't picking up on what some techblog mentioned on slashdot doesn't make them morons. I think we glorify our own technical punditry beyond the tempest in the teapot that it really is.

    It's never about what is the "best"--it's always about what's more popular. That's where the money is. Windows and VHS are testments to that. It's all about margins and paying off the share holders.

    The REAL story is going to be which of the publishers (movie studios and record labels included) survive the learning curve of the new business model--the computer as an entertainment hub. The whole MP3 thing blew up not because of piracy but because it was EASY and CHEAP. That's what consumers want--easy and a fair price. The content providers are catching on--hence all the TV-a-la-carte on the iTMS.

    Is it the best? Probably not. But is it lucrative? Hell, yeah. You don't have to be Warren Buffet to figure that out.

    It's all about the Benjamins, baby.

    --

    I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
  8. Futurama by MasterC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok, I guess I'm a bad geek or something. I just never watched Futurama. Perhaps because I can't stand ads so I rarely watch TV to begin with.

    That said, I didn't watch Futurama until I downloaded some episodes quite some time since the first run was cancelled. Then I downloaded the entire series and watched them. Now I own all four volumes on DVD and am looking forward to the next run.

    Maybe this example is the exception and not the rule, but the fact of the matter is that my "piracy" or "illegal download" led to Fox getting some cash out of my pocket for the DVD. Cash that they would not have gotten otherwise. At the end of the day, I don't care what the AP says or does not say: piracy has caused me to spend more money than I would have without it. I'm tired of crappy entertainment or lack of creative writing talent ([sarcasm]I can't *WAIT* for the remake of the revenge of the nerds[/sarcasm]). I want to use it and then decide if it's worth my money: if not I move on; if so I buy it.

    If I can't do that then I'll abandon/boycott/ignore the whole damn thing until I can. It's like being in the matrix and taking the red pill: once you snap out of the mindless, lemming-like world of the MPAA/RIAA/whatever-there-is-for-TV-networks-AA you take note of how crappy it was being Thomas A. Anderson.

    And I'll watch nothing but TV ads & infomercials before I get suckered into the "you don't really own X any more and you have to pay $1.99 ever time you want to watch it." Sorry, but fuck that. Keep your damn blue pill.

    --
    :wq
  9. Ok, let's look at what copyright enfringing causes by rucs_hack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1: Unreasonable patents caused early film makers to head out west to california, to this little place called hollywood, where they created an industry which makes billions from their product.

    2: Video recorders cause hollywood to become worried because people can 'illegally' copy stuff, and they try to kill it, but it leads them into a prosperity never before seen, eventually spuring research into the dvd.

    3: Filesharing causes media companies to become paranoid about loss of profit, then spurs the creation of online media delivery, again vastly increasing the potential profits of said media companies.

    I wonder what the next thing is that they'll fight till it suddenly turns into a money maker?

  10. Re:So let me get this straight... by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You really cheapen the concept of civil disobedience if you start using it to obtain crappy music for free.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  11. Re:What other side of the coin? by shark72 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "IMHO, an artist should be concerned with one thing: the spreading of his art."

    Not food, clothing, shelter, feeding their family?

    I see on your xanga that you are married. Would your wife be happy if you told her that you would no longer try to earn money for what you do? I also see that you just bought a new Mac -- great! Did you buy that with money you earned by working?

    "Art used to be thought of as a means of promoting thought and creativity but gradually began to be thought of as a means of profit and popularity."

    Art has been made for profit since the history of currency. Shakespeare, Mozart, and countless other grand masters were in it for the money. Sure, they liked what they did, but they were in it for the money -- just as you might have chosen a career in programming or IT because you enjoy it, but you're doing it for the money.

    "Are artists going to make as much money? Probably not. Should that be their focus? I don't think so."

    Well, I think that people in [INSERT ANDREW NAGY'S PROFESSION HERE] are too money-focused, and paying people like Andrew should be voluntary. Will Andrew make as much money? Probably not. But we'll get [THE OUTPUT OF ANDREW NAGY'S PROFESSION] for free, or at least cheaper.

    I also see from your xanga that you are a religous man. Please re-read Luke 6:31, Luke 10:27 and Matthew 7:12 and consider how you can reconcile your attitude toward artists with the teachings of Jesus.

    --
    Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.