Slashback: Wikipedia Correction, NASA Tape, BPI Rejected

Slashback tonight brings some clarifications and updates to previous Slashdot stories including: Reuters offers correction to Wikipedia slam, Lord of the Rings stage show ends, duct tape holds NASA together again, UK ISP rejects BPI request, Maine renews middle-school laptop program, British ID cards get a rethink, and China to further regulate internet use -- Read on for details.

Reuters offers correction to Wikipedia slam. junger writes "Reuters put out a hit piece on Wikipedia, saying that the encyclopedia wasn't credible in 'covering' the breaking news of the death of Enron's Ken Lay, but then Reuters has to correct their own story because they couldn't properly identify one of their sources."

Lord of the Rings stage show ends. l8f57 writes "After only 3 months, the 'Lord Of The Rings' stage show in Toronto, Ontario Canada is ending early. According to the Globe & Mail, the producers are blaming the critics for giving it a bad review. It looks like the last show is scheduled for September 3, 2006. Ticketmaster still has tickets available for shows up to the end."

Duct tape holds NASA together again. vasanth writes to tell us NASA has solved another problem with their favorite repair device, a roll of duct tape. From the article: "First pressed into service during the homemade repairs that saved Apollo 13 from disaster in 1970, the tape has since been at the center of a variety of ingenious quick fixes dreamed up by the space agency's scientists. The latest patch-up will secure British astronaut Piers Sellers to his jet-propelled backpack today for the final spacewalk of the shuttle Discovery's 13-day mission to the International Space Station."

UK ISP rejects BPI request. Glyn writes "One of the ISPs that the British recording industry tried to strong-arm into terminating customers' accounts on accusation of file-sharing has responded with an emphatic no. From the response: 'You have sent us a spreadsheet setting out a list of 17 IP addresses you allege belong to Tiscali customers, whom you allege have infringed the copyright of your members, together with the dates and times and with which sound recording you allege that they have done so. You have also sent us extracts of screenshots of the shared drive of one of those customers. You state that such evidence is "overwhelming". However, you have provided no actual evidence in respect of 16 of the accounts. Further, you have provided no evidence of downloading taking place nor have you provided evidence that the shared drive was connected by the relevant IP address at the relevant time. Similar requests we have dealt with in the past, have included such information and, indeed, the bodies conducting those investigations have felt that a court would consider it necessary to see such evidence, supported by sworn statements, before being able to grant any order.'"

Maine renews middle-school laptop program. markhb writes "The State of Maine has renewed its controversial 'Laptops for Middle-schoolers' program this week. Apple won the contract once again, this time for $41 million, and gets to provide another 36,000 brand-spanking-new iBooks. New this time around: all districts will be required to let the kids take the laptops home, and private and parochial schools will also be invited to join in the fun!"

British ID cards get a rethink. OutOfMyTree writes "The British ID card scheme will miss its planned roll-out date of 2008, according to leaked emails seen by the Sunday Times. In fact civil servants leading the project are afraid that if government ministers keep on 'ignoring reality' the whole mess may be bad enough to delay the acceptance of ID cards for another generation. The contracts already in place are in difficulties because of 'the amount of rethinking going on about identity management', and the escalating costs."

China to further regulate internet use. anaesthetica writes "Director of the Information Office of the State Council, Cai Wu, has announced that new internet control measures are needed. New initiatives include monitoring blogs and search engines, as well as mandatory cellphone and website registration. With 16 million bloggers and 97 million search engine users, the Chinese authorities see search engines as the 'choke point' for information. From the article: 'The potential new regulations, which are still in the discussion stage, are being considered at a time of exploding Internet and cellphone use that has created the freest atmosphere of communication this country has known under Communist rule, despite strenuous government efforts to contain it.'"

Comments

Critical vulnerability

[Kelson]

the producers are blaming the critics for giving it a bad review.

OK, critics sometimes do miss the point. It's not uncommon for a newspaper to assign the critic who likes family dramas to review the latest sci-fi extravaganza, in which case a bad review means nothing more than that the critic wasn't in the target audience for the film.

That said, if Lord of the Rings: The Musical really was as bad as the reviews suggested, the problem isn't the reviews, but the show. In that case, the bad reviews are only a symptom.

Has anyone here seen the show? I remember the reviews were terrible, but Toronto is a little out of my way...

Re:Critical vulnerability

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a pretty big fan of LOTR, and I saw the show with my family a few weeks ago.

Its as marvelous a show as someone could make of LOTR. That being said, after seeing it I think LOTR just doesn't appear adapt well to live theatre. They spent tons of money on it, the choreography is astounding, etc, etc, and portions of it are actually from the books and weren't in the movies (kudos to the writers).

But in the end, they know that its a double-edged sword: they get tickets because of the movies, but they get bad reviews because of them too, since everyone goes there expecting to see some "live" form of the LOTR films. And its not. Its theatre.

But as an avid fan of both LOTR and theatre, I still highly recommend it.
Take this as you will.

- Anon

Re:Critical vulnerability

[Philosopher-Geek]

It seems that you've hit the nail on the head talking about the double-edged sword. I can rent the movies for a few dollars and see more special effects and actors I know and trust rather than shell out much more (10x that, or so) to see a show I'm not familiar with (haven'tseen multiple times or at least heard everyone talk about) or other things. Plus, the commercials ran for it did not seem to convey a sense of it staying with the book. From my pov, it looked it was going to be something entirely different. So, it's not only bad critics in the press, but bad press that they put out.

Re:Critical vulnerability

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw it in its 4th week. I live in Toronto and bought a Mirvish series subscription just because of the LOTR. I sat through "Moving Out" as a result. Perhaps that is to everyone's taste, but I have discovered that I now intensely hate Billy Joel.

Anyway, yes, I would argue that the LOTR onstage was pretty bad. It's long. Three acts. Over three hours. My wife did not make the third act.

Visually, stunning. Seeing the Balrog at the end of Scene 1 was probably the best bit of the entire show. I would argue that probably act 1 was the best of the show. The only song I could remember afterward was the Prancing Pony number where they sang "The Road goes On"...

Acts 2 and 3 were just getting long and longer. Yes, ents look cool. And orcs walk neat. But think about how hard it is to convey something like Helm's deep with a covey of 20 actors and assorted extras.

I would argue that probably a bigger dose of snip-snip was necessary.

Gollum was ok. Frodo and sam, blah blah. Maybe I gots the Frodo fatigue.

Also Gandalf sucked. Did not like him at all.

One thing I did like was they did have the Scourge of the Shire at the end.

Re:Critical vulnerability

[JohnWiney]

I saw it a few weeks ago. The show was good - the Balrog was amazing - but the major criticisms are right. It is too long. The songs are unmemberable. It spends too long on side issues, at the cost of the plot.

This is a show that needed workshopping - trial, review and fixup. Unfortunately, at $27M in production costs, the only way to do that was to find somewhere with a big enough theatre and audience to put it on and pay some of the costs. Now they'll fix it up, remount it on London, and try again. It will probably still need work, but the next version will no doubt be a lot better. Then they'll put together a road version, and we'll get to pay again to see what we should have seen in the first place.

Re:Critical vulnerability

[Anonymous Coward]

wikipedia sucks

Re:Critical vulnerability

[gnixdep]

I saw it. It wasn't *bad* as much as it smacked of a show which tried to cram eighty hours of dialog and description into three hours. It felt as though all of the actors were running at a sprint, trying to shave time.

That, and most of the music wasn't that great.

They did a lot of things right... the Black Riders were amoung the most impressive stage presences I've ever seen, but overall, it was dissapointing. I'm glad I saw it, I'm not sad it's closing, perhaps they'll re-write and try again in a few years... perhaps less of a musical, and more of a stage play.

Re:Critical vulnerability

[why-is-it]

OK, critics sometimes do miss the point. It's not uncommon for a newspaper to assign the critic who likes family dramas to review the latest sci-fi extravaganza, in which case a bad review means nothing more than that the critic wasn't in the target audience for the film.

I don't think this was the case here. All of the Toronto theatre critics hated LoTR. The pop-culture critics gave it the benefit of the doubt. I think that they knew it wasn't very good, but they wanted the show to succeeed and bring visitors back to Toronto.

That said, if Lord of the Rings: The Musical really was as bad as the reviews suggested, the problem isn't the reviews, but the show. In that case, the bad reviews are only a symptom.

It depends on where your point of view. I believe that the musical was average as a spectacle, but it was terrible live theatre. The theatre critics called it like it was. If you are a Tolkien fanboy, you will enjoy what you see and hear. If you are a fan of live theatre and not Tolkien, you will leave before the third act.

I think the producers ignored two facts:

• The population has been over-exposed with Tolkien
• The core group of fans are nerds, and nerds can't get dates. The ticket-buying population for this show is only one-half of any other show out there.

It will be interesting to see if the show can succeed in London or New York, considering how badly it tanked in Toronto...

mwa ha ha

[spykemail]

Sounds like Reuters committed a classic internet blunder: doing the very thing you're critisizing while critisizing it.

Yay for ducktape, British ISPs with balls, and the State of Maine (why the hell are they getting iBooks though?).

Re:mwa ha ha

[peragrin]

Easier to administer, and no known viruses in the wild and both potential exploits were either patched before the exploit was noticed or within hours afterwards.

When reliability is needed because kids are smart and will get around other defenses you don't want windows that break easily. hence why most schools have safety glass for their doors and windows.

Re:mwa ha ha

[Kelson]

Reuters committed a classic internet blunder: doing the very thing you're critisizing while critisizing it.

Classic blunders.... Ah, yes! As I recall, the most famous is never get involved in a flame war in Asia....

Re:mwa ha ha

[spykemail]

Check me if I'm wrong but aren't iBooks going out of style fast? MacBooks / MacBook Pros for the win?

Re:mwa ha ha

[Achromatic1978]

You hit the nail on the head with the 'classic internet blunder' - people lambasting Reuters/AP/conventional media for their flaws when things like Wikipedia are just as flawed.

Something something glass houses something something stones.

Re:mwa ha ha

[linguae]

why the hell are they getting iBooks though

Remember:

• A great deal of educational software hasn't been made into Universal Binaries yet (and translating PPC code to x86 is a performance hit, although Rosetta is doing very well).
• Speaking of software, some people in the education market haven't even moved off of Classic yet. (For example, at my university, the physics department still used a Classic application for physics motion diagrams. I saw Framemaker a few years ago at a graphics lab a year ago at a community college; to my knowledge, there is no OS X version of Framemaker. The physics department has invested in the Mac since the 80s; I once saw a stack of Macintosh SEs, SE/30s, Classics, and an old Power Mac 9600 around).

A G4 Mac with Classic support would fit the education market's needs better, for now. Once OS X-ported software gets Universal Binary support, and once people finally let go of Classic, then we'll see the education market adopt the Intel Macs in much larger numbers. (With all PowerPC Macs except for the Power Mac G5 discontinued, Classic users better find or code alternatives to their programs if they intend on upgrading.)

Re:mwa ha ha

[geminidomino]

Sounds like Reuters committed a classic internet blunder: doing the very thing you're critisizing while critisizing it.

At least they didn't go in against a Sicilian when death was on the line!

Re:mwa ha ha

[Shaper_pmp]

Sorry - did I miss something... did Wikipedia publish a hatchet-job indictment of AP?

No, wait, it was yet another example of Old Media going after New Media.

And proving in the process that while New Media may have its flaws, they aren't anything that Old Media doesn't also often suffer from. And that one of the true major differences between the two is that New Media tends to be more visible, transparent and honest about them when they occur.

What was your point again?

Stupid critics

[illuminatedwax]

Don't these critics realize that people are trying to make a living here?!!!

Re:Stupid critics

[gilroy]

In the crazy world we now inhabit, expect to see a lawsuit against the critics for restraint of trade.

Re:Stupid critics

[Anonymous Coward]

Good lord! Are the moderators fucking blind?? My other comment I can see being a troll, but this was clearly a joke and NOWHERE NEAR OFF TOPIC.

It's bubbling! It's growing! It's scary looking!

[Anonymous Coward]

Love that quote from the astronaut, putting putty down... right before losing a spatula to space.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/07/12/space.shu ttle.ap/index.html

Kapton not Duct

[Anonymous Coward]

CNN says it's Kapton Tape not Duct Tape

Re:Kapton not Duct

[Sean Riordan]

Almost certainly was Kapton. Better thermal properties and doesn't off gas much. Is a nice space industry equivalent to Duct tape though.

Reuters vs Wikipedia

[Pheersome]

Oh noes, somebody at Reuters made a mistake! Amazing as this may sound, professional news organizations do issue corrections from time to time. Why am I not defending Wikipedia in the same statement? The charged and misleading language that appeared on Wikipedia was intentionally put up by some random person.

"And journalism has sunk to a new low"? Come down off your high horse, Mr Unger.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.jasonunger.com/2006/07/11/how-to-mooch- traffic-to-your-blog/

is valid blog commentary on how to get people to read your tripe, at the very least it seems that his blog has garnered scuttlemonkey's attention. :(

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[AgNO3]

Also note that the reuters story was NOT WRONG. Just list the wrong source. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[sjames]

The charged and misleading language that appeared on Wikipedia was intentionally put up by some random person.

And? Some people are like that. After that, a great many people intentionally corrected the story and made sure it stayed that way.

Wikipedia, mainstream encyclopedias and news make errors for differing reasons. All three have correction mechanisms that mostly work. Nobody would have made a big deal of the Reuters correction at all if it hadn't been dripping with irony. It's as if a grammar nazi committed a comma splice.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[WilliamSChips]

The site is broken.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[unger814]

Pheersome, you obviously wouldn't know what irony was if it hit you over the head with a hammer. That statement was tongue-in-cheek.

The point is that Reuters slammed Wikipedia for not getting the facts straight, and in the process screwed up their own story.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[sanctimonius hypocrt]

"Hartman's Law of Prescriptivist Retaliation states that any article or statement about correct grammar, punctuation, or spelling is bound to contain at least one eror."

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[Pheersome]

That statement was tongue-in-cheek.

Mea culpa. Serves me right for taking some random blogger seriously. Still, there's enough "MSM is teh suck!!!1" noise out there that you'll have to pardon me for my confusion.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[Draknor]

eror

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume that was intentional.

But only because I don't have mod points :-)

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[Siward]

I've got to agree here. Reuters misidentified the person who gave them the cause of death. It wasn't as if the source originally said "died from alien anal probe" and then later recanted. I love Wikipedia and all, but this guy is doing them a disservice by pretending to understand actual journalism. Wikipedia would be better served by a critical article that shed light on both sides of the issue and offered some solutions or alternatives to the current method, not some tow-the-line, open-for-everyone-is-always-good mentality.

Frankly, I imagine that Wikipedia would be best served by pre-comment acception editors or moderators of some sort during major current event times. Of course it would be difficult (especially given the fact that Wikipedia users aren't tied to some predetermined schedule), but slowing down the flow of information -- even at the expense of correct but uncorroborated fact addition -- would surely be worthwhile during the early hours/days of a current event.

I can't speak for everyone, of course, but I would rather spend the first few hours after a story broke not seeing the whole picture instead of seeing completely conflicting and potentially oddball explanations. Not to say that Wikipedia is always like this during a current event, but the potential certainly exists as things stand right now.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[Anonymous Coward]

The Reuters story was not wrong. It just said that the family claimed he died of a heart attack when actually the family did not say that. Right.

What's really intesting about this is that most of the critics of Wikipedia are clearly motivated by fear of their jobs. Andrew Orlowski has at least admitted his bias almost openly ("can't _we_ do better") but the rest are just a bunch of trolls. Well, Orlowski is a troll too, but at least he's occasionally a funny troll.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[masterzora]

Given all Google results returning the exact string including "eror" and the fact that it just makes sense to be intentional, I'll take that as a yes.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[Anonymous Coward]

Also note that the reuters story was NOT WRONG. Just list the wrong source. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Of course it was wrong. They said a family member said something that they didn't.

If I say that Ken Lay's wife told me that he committed suicide then am I "NOT WRONG" as long as someone somewhere said it?

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[mdwh2]

If someone makes petty criticisms at Wikipedia, it's fair game to make petty criticisms back at them.

More generally though - yes Wikipedia can sometimes have mistakes, and may have some bias, and it might be reasonable to say it's not as good as say Britannica. However, when you're comparing it to the level of misinformation and bias that floods out of news organisations (Reuters included), there's simply no comparison.

I wish people would read the news with the same level of scepticism so many have for Wikipedia.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[crawling_chaos]

Isn't irony what I have to do when I forget to take the wash out of the dryer and hang it up?

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[tehcyder]

you obviously wouldn't know what irony was if it hit you over the head with a hammer

And it's the iron-y hammers that hurt the most.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[Fishstick]

have you no idea what irony is?

yeah, irony is like goldy and bronzy, only it's made of iron.

Re:Reuters vs Wikipedia

[skinfaxi]

"Frankly, I imagine that Wikipedia would be best served by pre-comment acception editors or moderators of some sort during major current event times. Of course it would be difficult (especially given the fact that Wikipedia users aren't tied to some predetermined schedule), but slowing down the flow of information -- even at the expense of correct but uncorroborated fact addition -- would surely be worthwhile during the early hours/days of a current event. "

What about some way of voting on chunks of content? "This content is good/bad/unverifiable/someone's opinion," etc. Voting restricted by IP address &/or email address? Maybe there could be text color cues to give hints as to how some information is viewed - i.e., red text means > 75% of votes say it's bad information.

Way to go

[MrShaggy]

ISP. Its nice to see someone not rolling over so easy. Maybe GOOGLE set precedent with the way they said no to the American government. Maybe this will be another 'just say no' generation :L

Re:Way to go

[zxsqkty]

They didn't say "no". They simply asked for more evidence before they act. They also set out the terms under which they would accept that evidence, based on previous successful legal challenges.

"Give us this, that, and the other and we'll play along."

Essentially they just pumped the ball back into the BPIs court, now we get to wait for their return volley.

I get the impression the BPI just shot out a standard letter from their legal dept., but the accusation's not sufficient evidence for the ISP to act against its customers. If they can provide the evidence the ISP is asking for we'll see a continuation of this story.

If not, the BPI will probably just try another tack.

(apologies for the mixed sporting metaphors. I know, as geeks, we try to avoid getting involved in physical activities...)

Re:Way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

cue the gov't introducing legislation requiring ISPs to shutdown accounts upon request no-questions-asked. They'd probably label it as being to target terrorist communcation and planning networks but just like every other piece of legislation with the T word all over it it gets used for shutting down anybody and everybody. see http://www.boagworld.com/archives/2006/04/uk_terro r_legislation_hits_website_owners.html

(not that anything i just said had anything to do with copyright theft at all, let alone condoned it, ahh sod it, i'll post as A/C anyhow)

iBooks?

[nebbian]

Errr... that would be MacBooks thank you.

Re:iBooks?

[rickb928]

It would be par for the course to have Apple foist left over iBooks on the MLTI.

Even better to have Apple keep making them for 4 more years. Spares and such being such fun when models go into end-of-life.

Ah, my former employer is no doubt toasting the State of Maine. Doing third-party repair is a lucrative business, considering Apple's ineptitude.

rick

Re:iBooks?

[linguae]

No, they are really getting iBooks. (The online Apple Store for Education at my school is still selling iBook G4s, even today). An end-of-the-line iBook would give you better performance at running PowerPC applications than a MacBook would (PPC emulation on a x86 results in a performance hit, although Rosetta seems to be handling the task well; and most big software packages won't have Universal Binaries until 2007). Remember that many education users still use Classic applications; you can't run Classic on an Intel Mac.

Buying a PowerPC Mac today isn't a crazy idea, especially if you want something proven to be reliable (have you heard about the problems plauging the MacBook and MacBook Pro lately?) and works flawlessly with existing (and old) software.

Re:iBooks?

[R3d M3rcury]

Actually, no. It is iBooks, not MacBooks.

Why?

• iBooks are cheaper. They're costing about $289/yr. The MacBooks would be more expensive.
• iBooks are more reliable. MacBooks are still getting the kinks worked out. You want to deal with recalling several thousand MacBooks?
• Most software is still PowerPC. Why pay extra money to run emulated software?

There's no need for the State of Maine to pay more money for hassles and reduced performance just to be on the bleeding edge. In four years, the kinks will be worked out of the hardware and probably most of the software will be Universal or Intel. Then they'll negotiate again.

If nothing else, this should shut up anybody who says, "Hey, Apple is going to drop the PowerPC versions of Mac OS X!" They'll probably be around for at least four more years...

Re:iBooks?

[Firehed]

I'd disagree, though you raise a valid point. First, we're already over halfway through 2006 (yikes!), so 2007 UniBin releases aren't that far off. Second, a Core Duo x86 chip running Rosetta emulation will often be equal to, if not faster than, the original PPC-software-on-PPC-hardware solution. Varies by application a bit, but AFAIK Rosetta is threaded and thus you gain back your performance hit and then some by having two cores. Seems like a bit of an oversight on someone's part (I'm going to have to lay the blame on Apple for this one) for not being able to emulate classic apps.

Depends on how long you want the machines to last, I suppose. If you've got a one-year refresh cycle, then iBooks would probably be the best choice. Much longer than that, I'd say that Macbooks would be a better choice unless there's a specific reason why they wouldn't work (namely, classic apps or an overlit computer lab glaring up all of those glossy screens).

Re:iBooks?

[markhb]

I found a deployment page on the MLTI site that has PDFs of all the materials that were sent out to the school systems. They are, indeed, as you say, G4 iBooks, with 1 GB RAM, OS X 10.4, a 40 GB hard drive and a new "online learning management system," StudyWiz, preinstalled, whatever that is. Note that the StudyWiz website claims the software is being installed in "all schools in the state," which is just plain wrong (it's only the 7th and 8th grades that are getting the MLTI stuff).

Re:iBooks?

[thesimplicity]

I live in Maine and have spent a bit of time at numerous schools involved with MLTI (workshops and things like that), and I can honestly say that these kids don't need MacBooks. All they're using them for is word processing and internet research. The state shouldn't have to pay X amount more per student just to have the newest technology when something considerably cheaper gets the job done. The real purpose of the program is just to get middle-schoolers comfortable in a computer environment (keep in mind Maine is a very poor state and most families don't have a home computer).... not only in terms of skill-sets, but also psychologically. I've met people in their 20s who were scared to death computers just due to limited exposure. Putting a reliable, cheap machine like an iBook into their hands and letting them learn with the same machine over a number of years is the strength of the program.

ISP v BPI

[Tx]

That's a strange one, because the ISP in question is well known to be p2p-unfriendly, in terms of blocking ports and throttling traffic. I'd have thought they'd be first in line to roll over for the BPI, can't help but wonder if their response is mainly for the good publicity it will generate.

Re:ISP v BPI

[topham]

Due to the Privacy regulations in the U.K. it wouldn't matter if they wanted to provide the data or not.

They are not allowed.

They need a court order.

Re:ISP v BPI

[peragrin]

Nope it's more they are covering their arse. read it again the BPI sent 17 notices, but 16 were lacking evidence. That means the 17th had enough evidence for the ISP lawyers to allow it to be "processed" in whatever the normal way is.

the ISP is simply not going to be sued by their customers for canceling accounts when no proof of illegal activities were done. Provide the evidence, and they will comply.

Re:ISP v BPI

[mooingyak]

read it again the BPI sent 17 notices, but 16 were lacking evidence. That means the 17th had enough evidence for the ISP lawyers to allow it to be "processed" in whatever the normal way is.

Actually, they said 16 completely lacked evidence, and one had crappy evidence. They responded with a no for all 17.

Is duct tape rated for outer space?

[technoextreme]

Im confused the bombardment of UV rays from the sun would mean that most plastic materials would turn into goop and become useless. Does that mean duct tape can withstand UV rays or is it just a kludge? I know there is certain tapes developed from NASA that I use every day but it isn't duct tape (It's Kapton tape).

Re:Is duct tape rated for outer space?

[kfg]

What if your ducts are made of Kapton?

KFG

Re:Is duct tape rated for outer space?

[ClickOnThis]

Im confused the bombardment of UV rays from the sun would mean that most plastic materials would turn into goop and become useless. Does that mean duct tape can withstand UV rays or is it just a kludge? I know there is certain tapes developed from NASA that I use every day but it isn't duct tape (It's Kapton tape).

First of all, they did actually use Kapton tape for the repair. It appears that somehow the news reports have confused it with duct tape because both are carried on shuttle missions.

I seriously doubt that duct tape is rated for outer space. It can withstand a wide temperature range (after all, it was designed to tape ducts, right?) but surely not as wide as Kapton (see the linked article.) Also, the adhesive on the tape has to be space-rated, and I'm not sure duct tape satisfies that requirement.

Another issue for materials used in space: they must not release gasses when exposed to a vacuum. This is not so much of an issue for the shuttle and the astronauts (the space environment around the shuttle is pretty filthy already) but it is important for unmanned satellites with sensitive instruments that can pick up such gasses as false readings of the space environment. Even a fingerprint on a surface exposed to a vacuum can cause a problem -- another good reason to assemble everything in a clean room and wear gloves. IIRC, Kapton satisfies all of these requirements, and I really doubt duct tape would. You can smell duct tape, so I suppose it would outgas in a vacuum like crazy, especially if you let it heat up.

Re:Is duct tape rated for outer space?

[mkiwi]

Duct tape was not created by mortal man. God saw the need to have an incredibly strong adhesive surface bound to a strip of synthetic fibers.

As such, duct tape can assume an infinite number of forms and uses, and is nearly impenetrable to all natural phenomena that faces it.

Indeed duct tape is the force that holds the world together and is the secret to all Physics-related questions.

Re:Is duct tape rated for outer space?

[jnik]

after all, it was designed to tape ducts, right?
Actually, nope. Duct usage came later, and really isn't a good idea.

Re:Is duct tape rated for outer space?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I thought I read somewhere that NASA does use some special tapes, that it's not generic duct tape.

Re:Is duct tape rated for outer space?

[StikyPad]

It is highly recommended, however, for taping ducks.

Re:Is duct tape rated for outer space?

[tehcyder]

duct tape...is it just a kludge?

I think it's safe to say that using duct tape lies at one end of the "Absolute-Kludge to Elegant-Engineering-Solution" spectrum.

Story was pro-Wikipedia

[crow]

Obviously the story was intended as a slam on Wikipedia, but I read it as just the opposite. The story was breaking, and within a very short time, the Wikipedia article evolved into something respectable. Sure, it took some wrong turns, but they didn't last for more than a few minutes. Reuters described Wikipedia working exactly the way it is supposed to work.

Re:Story was pro-Wikipedia

[StikyPad]

Exactly. Slander, vandalism, and misinformation aren't bugs, they're features!

Re:Story was pro-Wikipedia

[tbannist]

According to the article, it took Wikipedia about 3 minutes to get the story right and it took Reuters 24 hours to fix their story.

Wikipedia is unreliable but great

[mrcaseyj]

Anyone who thinks Wikipedia is reliable is crazy. Whether it's more or less reliable than traditional sources is irrelevant. Wikipedia is a revolutionary and extremely valuable means of information distribution. It's complementary to other sources. I don't think it's misleading, because they're very up front about where the information comes from (i.e. anybody). I fear that if it gets as popular as say google, that it may be destroyed by the same kind of manipulation that ravages the search engines.

Re:Wikipedia is unreliable but great

[epine]

This tripe gets upgraded as informative? If that post passes as "information" we hardly need to begin debating the Wikipedia.

the same kind of manipulation that ravages the search engines

Not displayed two nerve cells to rub together. Sesame Street goes to a lot of trouble to teach "same" and "different". They only fail in one respect: to point out that it is a lifelong learning project.

What search engine has a centralized, permanent revision history log with a "one click" undo-abuse button? What makes the Wikipedia situation the same as the search engine or spam or blog abuse problems? I can answer that question: approaching the situation with roughly the same level of intellectual accuity required to analyze the plot in Pirates of the Caribbean. They are good guys trying to get something done. There are bad guys who would like to game the system to their advantage. The bad guys have a revenue stream from their sales of creams and extensions. Good guys respond valiantly. Bad guys scale up faster than good guys, because they have more money to burn, and fewer scruples. Good guys hang heads and mope and tell teary stories about the sad end of the good old days.

Fast forward to reality. Bad guys orchestrate 10,000 spambots to hack the Wikipedia. Really pissed of Wikipedia PHP programmer writes script to auto-revert wholesale damage. Another small roadblock is soon erected to prevent "new user" accounts from making certain kinds of edits visible immediately. Bad guys crawl back into dark hole and return to their original campaign of identity fraud against the hopeless banking establishment that came up with the idea that making purchases over the phone by reciting a fixed string of credit-card digits was a good security mechanism.

Get a grip, people. Wikipedia is far harder to abuse than the payment system adopted by the world's richest and most powerful banking institutions. Yes, there will be some outages and growing pains. No, Wikipedia will not degenerate into a spam slum overnight, or anytime soon. Wikipedia is presently most vulnerable to DOS attacks not outright manipulation. Until Google volunteers to host the front-end squid-cache layer. The edit layer can be partially filtered to prioritize access from long-time editors in good standing. Collatoral damage to long-time Wikipedians trying to edit from behind the AOL proxy server. Great outpouring of grief. World comes to an end.

Re:Wikipedia is unreliable but great

[mrcaseyj]

I'm sorry if I confused anyone. I should have said "similar kind of manipulation". Wikipedia has a lot of effective defense mechanisms, but I think it will be degraded considerably if it ever becomes as big a target as google. In the early days of the web, search engines returned wonderfully useful results because they hadn't been wrecked by search engine optimization. Those days didn't last long. Wikipedia may be able to fight off total destruction, but I'll be amazed if it isn't severely degraded. Then again I'm amazed its done as well as it has.

>Bad guys crawl back into dark hole

You're very optimistic, but even if Wikipedia is smarter than banks are, that doesn't mean it'll beat the bad guys. The search engines have been and may always be severely degraded by the bad guys.

>No, Wikipedia will not degenerate into a spam slum overnight, or anytime soon.

I doubt you have any solid justification for your apparently high level of confidence, but lets hope you're right.

Re:Wikipedia is unreliable but great

[Anonymous Coward]

Fast forward to reality. Bad guys orchestrate 10,000 spambots to hack the Wikipedia. Really pissed of Wikipedia PHP programmer writes script to auto-revert wholesale damage. Another small roadblock is soon erected to prevent "new user" accounts from making certain kinds of edits visible immediately. Bad guys crawl back into dark hole and return to their original campaign of identity fraud against the hopeless banking establishment that came up with the idea that making purchases over the phone by reciting a fixed string of credit-card digits was a good security mechanism.

Junior high school kid is told to write a report on Mark Twain. Kid types "mark twain" into Google, and follows prominent link to Wikipedia. Kid copies and pastes a few paragraphs into report.

But hark: What is this, some sort of link that says "edit"? Could it be..? Click. Select all. Delete. Type. Submit. Giggles ensue as the staid article has been successfully replaced by the single word "fuck". My my, how naughty.

Fifteen minutes later, the vandalism has been reverted by one of the tireless editors, possibly using a tool such as VandalProof. But in the meanwhile half a dozen visitors have popped by and been rather unimpressed by Wikipedia. And this will be repeated hundreds of times that day on articles throughout Wikipedia.

Re:Wikipedia is unreliable but great

[Haeleth]

But hark: What is this, some sort of link that says "edit"? Could it be..? Click. Select all. Delete. Type. Submit. Giggles ensue as the staid article has been successfully replaced by the single word "fuck". My my, how naughty.

Fifteen minutes later, the vandalism has been reverted by one of the tireless editors, possibly using a tool such as VandalProof.

15 minutes? Hardly. Trivial vandalism like blanking or inserting profanities is typically reverted within seconds by TawkerBot or one of its clones.

LotR the musical

[woozlewuzzle]

My wife and I went to go see it in the spring and enjoyed it very much. Of course, we are both big LotR fans and know the story well. A large portion of the audience were seniors who get the tickets as part of their yearly subscription. Some walked out - there's know way you could follow the story without already knowing it ahead of time.

As a show for fans of the stories, I'd recommend it. For people who just love good theatre - this probably isn't it. Everything you'd like in a show - character development, a clear story line, etc. just aren't there.

Re:LotR the musical

[Skynyrd]

A large portion of the audience were seniors who get the tickets as part of their yearly subscription. Some walked out - there's know way you could follow the story without already knowing it ahead of time.

Perhaps they thought they were going to see the sequel to Lord of the Dance.

If that was the case, I'd leave too.

Re:LotR the musical

[goatan]

A large portion of the audience were seniors who get the tickets as part of their yearly subscription. Some walked out - there's know way you could follow the story without already knowing it ahead of time.

Perhaps they thought they were going to see the sequel to Lord of the Dance.

If that was the case, I'd leave too I wouldn't even bother to arrive.

Re:LotR the musical

[Astin]

I saw it, and I'm a huge fan of both LotR and musicals. It wasn't good.

I have an overly long post on my blog, but I'm not one for blog-whoring, so no link :)

Short version:

Pros:
- visually stunning - Balrog, Ents, Riders, etc... excellent. Stage direction is fantastic.
- great sound - theatre with surround sound is great
- Elevators in the stage - makes mountains mountains, and hills are hills, battles range over a changing landscape.
- they try to cover the major points in the book - razing of the shire is there, even Tom Bombadil is mentioned
- acting is okay. Some great performances (Gollum, Saruman), a few middling ones, and a couple REALLY bad ones (Galadriel comes to mind)

Cons:
- long and convoluted - expected with this source material, but if you haven't at least seen the movies, you're lost. Reading the books, and The Hobbit, and the Silmarillion helps.
- HORRIBLY edited. Basic edit strategy seems to be, "if everyone lives, cut it." Story jumps all over the place, and makes little sense. It's like someone skimmed the book and didn't discuss it with anybody who knows the series. They also move key scenes around, creating a domino effect that changes other scenes and in the end detracts greatly.
- see: terrible performances - the couple that are really bad really detract from their scenes. One big problem is Brent Carver's Gandalf - it's a mediocre performance. Not bad per se, but not the tour de force that Gandalf needs to be.
- Awful, forgettable songs. TWO songs are memorable, the rest are either terrible, out of place, or ripped off from another play (the call to battle might as well have been called "One Day More" or "Red and Black"). This isn't good for a MUSICAL
- Attempts to please the fanboys actually insult - the razing of the Shire for example - Sharkey and his men are all dressed in black trenchcoats and black slacks and t-shirts... it's like a low-budget Matrix scene.
- No heart whatsoever.
- There's more, but I'll stop here.

If you're easily distracted, then the technical aspects could maybe hide the deficincies. But if you actually watch the thing, it's tremendously disappointing on a number of levels. They're re-editing it for London, and dropping it by half an hour. Maybe they can fix some of their flubs.

Critics are REALLY lazy

[Quiet_Desperation]

I still remember some fool critic in the Los Angeles Times years ago criticizing an Iron Maiden album (Somewhere In Time) for having songs about weird topics (Alexander The Great, for example). He went on and on about how such topics were "nothing a teenager can sink their teeth into".

If the dumbass did even 2 seconds of research on Iron Maiden, he would have learned that lots of their songs are like that, and that's, in fact, why a lot of people like them. So he criticized from ignorance, and also put down a whole class of people (teenagers) in the process.

I *am* a double-edged sword...

[cagle_.25]

...you insensitive clod!

--Gurthang

And here's the difference

[Anonymous Coward]

Reuters' story was wrong, we had to wait until they corrected it. If they hadn't bothered, it'd remain like that forever. If it was a Wikipedia article, the community would have corrected it!

Re:And here's the difference

[Achromatic1978]

Errr, we still had to wait till Wikipedia corrected it - it's just that WP had more people around who /could/ correct it. And then uncorrect it. And then reinsert same information more subtlely to escape detection while pushing their own cause.

Your "point" has little to do with Reuters. If noone bothers to correct errors in Wikipedia, and some amazingly big errors have stood untouched in it for a long time, it'll remain like that forever.

Lest you think I'm a WP-hater, quite the opposite - I'm a regular contributor and editor.

Expensive darn laptops!

[Eric Smith]

That's over $1138 per laptop. Doesn't sound like a very good deal to me, especially for that large a quantity. I just bought an HP Pavilion dv5210us at Fry's for $649, and there's a $50 mail-in rebate. I'm fairly sure that if I called HP to try to place an order for 36,000 of them, the price would be even better. It has a 15 inch LCD with 1280x800 resolution, an AMD Turion ML-34 processor (64 bit, 1.8 GHz), 512MB of RAM, and a 60GB hard drive. It came with Windows XP Home, though the first thing I did was to replace that with Fedora Core 5. Anyhow, what's so wonderful about the laptops Apple is supplying for this contract that makes them worth almost twice the price?

I'm sure some of you are going to say "Mac OS", but I'm not at all convinced that Mac OS is a win for educational users, as there appears to be a far better selection of educational software for Windows.

If I was a Maine taxpayer, I think I'd be calling and writing my state legislators demanding an investigation.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[rickb928]

Some of us did. No luck.

Of course, the contract includes warranty support, Apple engineers providing bullet-proof, secure, unhackable images of OS X for student use, and inestimable technical support...

Yeah, I know. Unhackable. Just tellin' ya what the contractors say.

I've worked with a lot of Maine school systems to adapt their systems to the iBooks. It was a little like pulling teeth from a squid.

rick

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[idobi]

Absolutely! Because for that $649 you'll also throw in teacher training, wiring up the schools, software, and replacing the laptop should it get lost or broken.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[larkost]

And that investigation would reveal that Apple is also providing servers, wireless nodes (carts), service for the duration, training for the teachers (god help those poor trainers), and extensive support. I think your math is missing some components.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[linguae]

Are you using iBook ($949 for 12", $1199 for 14"; those are education prices) prices or MacBook prices? If you were using iBook prices, then I would definitely agree with your argument. If you were using MacBook prices, then that would be unfair. Your Pavillion isn't dual core and doesn't have the features that the MacBook has. (Now, if that Pavillion had a dual core processor of that speed for that price, then I'll make a special trip to Fry's one of these weekends....).

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[crossmr]

He's using 41,000,000/36,000=1138 and change.

and while many defend it as "wiring the schools and training the teachers, etc". If you bought 36,000 laptops at $650 a pop (thats retail you'd definitely get a better price buying bulk) Its only 23,040,000. thats 18,000,000 in "wiring fees".
at 300 kids per middle school (rough estimate) thats 120 schools. Setting up wireless access points and 120 servers should not cost 18,000,000.

Even if HP only knocked the price down $50, thast another 1.8 million. No apple is ripping them off.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Eric Smith]

While the contract includes "support", I very much doubt that it includes teacher training, software (other than the operating system and the software normally distributed with the operating system), or replacement of stolen machines.

To the extent that it does include any software beyond the OS, I can't imagine that it's particularly expensive software that can justify any significant portion of the total cost of the laptop.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Eric Smith]

I've seen vendor-provided "training". It's rubbish, and the support isn't much better. Certainly not worth paying double the price of the hardware. And the cost of a few server machines and wireless nodes should be in the noise compared to the cost of the laptops themselves. We're not talking enterprise class on-line transaction processing systems with SANs here. Just a few file servers.

If they had requested separate bids for computers and for support, I think they could have gotten a MUCH better deal on both.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Eric Smith]

Why do K-12 students need a dual-core processor? I think they can get a perfectly fine education using laptops that have a 1.8 GHz single-core Turion. Next you'll be telling us that the kids won't be able to learn anything unless they have the latest and greatest NVidia video cards.

And whether it's an iBook or a MacBook, it's overpriced. Aside from the overrated Mac OS, neither has any compelling advantage over the inexpensive HP Pavilion.

Sure, if you're going to spend your own money, get all sorts of fancy stuff. Maybe it's even worthwhile. But when you're spending the taxpayers' money, stick to the essentials. A $650 laptop will provide >99% of the educational value of a $949 or $1199 laptop.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[linguae]

Why do K-12 students need a dual-core processor?

Why didn't you state that already? I wouldn't have responded if you said something to that effect. You sounded like another one of those "Ohhh, I can get some HP/Dell/EMachines computer less than a Mac that doesn't have comparable stats" trolls, but with that point, you're not one of them.

Sure, if you're going to spend your own money, get all sorts of fancy stuff. Maybe it's even worthwhile. But when you're spending the taxpayers' money, stick to the essentials. A $650 laptop will provide >99% of the educational value of a $949 or $1199 laptop.

While we're at at, I wonder how those $100 laptops are doing? A $100 laptop will provide about 90% of the educational value of a $649 laptop, wouldn't it?

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Grail]

And whether it's an iBook or a MacBook, it's overpriced. Aside from the overrated Mac OS, neither has any compelling advantage over the inexpensive HP Pavilion.

Does HP offer schools anything like the Apple Mobile Learning Labs? No. Factor in the cost of the cart, wireless base station and laser printer. Next factor in the savings on continually reinstalling the operating system image due to kids browsing to "Comet Cursors" or "Kazaa" type sites.

I use an iMac at home simply because I want to play games or do work on my computer. I don't want the computer getting in the way, or making more work for me.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[rickb928]

Forget the wiring. Besides being wireLESS, that was done 4 or more years ago. This batch doesn't have to support nearly as much infrastructure. Already there.

This is the second 4-year or so deal. Oughta be a steeper discount, especially since Maine is fronting the iBook assembly lines for a while. Alas, this is no bargain in so many ways.

rick

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Anonymous Coward]

for the record I
A) have a degree in Computer Systems
B) have seen some of the Apple MLTI vendor-provided training
c) Work in a MLTI School district

and, it's worth it!

Also the service contract is nothing to be sneezed at.

And to the person who said that if he/she lived in Maine, he/she would be asking his/her state legislator for an investigation, I have this question: If this was the only computer that your son/daughter got to use, becuase you didn't have one at home... would you still feel this way?
Each 7th and 8th grader gets a laptop assigned to them, and this program is about more that just "The kids get a laptop to type on" It is also about teaching the students about responsibility

Also, please realize that these laptops aren't just given to the schools, the schools have to pay in each year for each laptop that they will be using... so I'd talk to you local school board members to see what they have to say about it.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Eric Smith]

I was only describing the stats of the inexpensive HP laptop to show that it was plenty good enough for education, not to try to claim that it matched the Apple laptop feature-for-feature. What's the point in spending more taxpayer money for features that aren't actually necessary or useful to promote the educational purpose of the machine?

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Eric Smith]

The cost of the cart, access point, and printer should be distributed over the cost of twenty to thirty laptops, so as I've said, it's lost in the noise. HP might not have a ready-made package, but I'm sure they'd be willing to put one together for a large order like that, as would any systems integrator.

And I've seen plenty of school labs that have routine, automated processes for reinstalling the OS on PCs, so the cost of doing that (if necessary) is minimal. But I'd assume that in elementary and middle school classes, the students won't be allowed direct access to the internet at large. They should have a more constrained environment. One way to do that at almost zero cost is to use VMware Player, which is available at no charge from VMware. You can set up the machine so the student only has access to the virtual machine, not the native OS. If the virtual machine image gets damaged, it can easily be reverted to a snapshot or restored from another copy on a network server. A few students might figure out how to screw up the host OS, but most won't.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have any access to the internet, but it doesn't need to be provided in every class at all times. There can be specific classes or specific stations in the library that have full internet access, thus the threat level to the other machines is reduced.

Anyhow, the point is that the effective cost of server and support portions of this contract is FAR higher than it should be. The Apple products and services may have some advantages, but equivalent products and services from other vendors are available at lower cost.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Eric Smith]

and, it's worth it!

Well, if an Anonymous Coward says so, it must be true, despite the lack of arguments to support the statement.

And to the person who said that if he/she lived in Maine, he/she would be asking his/her state legislator for an investigation, I have this question: If this was the only computer that your son/daughter got to use, becuase you didn't have one at home... would you still feel this way?

Yes, I would definitely still feel that the state could have obtained equivalent products that provide just as good support for education for less of my tax dollars. That would leave more of my tax dollars available for improving other aspects of the school system, such as hiring more teachers or building more classrooms, either of which would improve the quality of education more than the laptops (Apple or otherwise) will.

As it happens, I live in California, which has the worst ranked public schools in the nation. I would rather see the schools forgo laptops entirely, if the money could be spent on teachers and facilities. But the reality seems to be that any time the schools get more money, it gets spent on more administration rather than on anything worthwhile.

Maybe someday a good laptop setup with fancy educational software will be more effective than a teacher, but that day is not here.

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[Eric Smith]

What about my post was "flamebait"? Do the moderators really believe that students DO need a dual-core processor? Or that spending 50% more on a laptop improves the educational experience by anywhere near 50%?

Re:Expensive darn laptops!

[MrZaius]

Forgive me for not RTFMing, but, on top of all other things, $1138 would buy a MacBook, but instead they're using it to unload left over g4 iBooks, according to the article summary. Quite a deal for Apple.

Triple irony

[cagle_.25]

And in yet another ironic twist, attempting to follow the link to the source of the Reuters story on Wiki results in 403 - Forbidden.

I guess a good source is impossible to find.

civil liberties

[v1]

Isn't it strange how while the Chinese people are gaining and exercising new civil liberties despite the government, here in the US we are losing our civil liberties to the government, just about as fast as the Chinese are gaining them.

I wonder when they'll catch up with us?

Re:civil liberties

[windowpain]

"the Chinese people are gaining and exercising new civil liberties despite the government"

First of all, it's literally impossible to gain new civil liberties despite the government. By definition, civil liberties are laws that protect the individual from the government. If the government does not pass laws that protect the individual (or it chooses not to abide by such laws) you can try to step out of the way of the jackboot, but that doesn't mean you're exercising new civil liberties.

Second, what the hell are you smoking? China is one of the most depraved regimes on earth. The Chinese government has been credibly accused of murdering people because of their religion and then dissecting them and selling their organs!

Google these words:

harvesting organs falun gong

The spirit of Adolf Hitler is alive and well in China.

Re:civil liberties

[v1]

Step 1: do anything that pisses off say, the president
Step 2: get labeled a "terrorist" or "enemy combatant"
Step 2b: you just lost all your civil liberties
Step 3: whatever they want to do to you

How do we really have any civil liberties (protection from the govt as you describe it) when such laws exist that allow the government to ignore the laws?

It's very arguable that the actual letter of the law in America is no better than the letter of the law in China - it's just that other circumstances here in the USA prevent the government from taking the amount of control that china's government has, despite their actually having the legal authority to do it.

When you have "enemy combatant", "for reasons of national security", and "executive order", all the other laws really lose their true meaning. "We'll allow you to do that, unless we decide otherwise" is not true fredom.

Re:civil liberties

[VendettaMF]

Come on over and say that. See what happens.

In actuality all that will happen is that you will be mocked by anyone who cares to understand you.

Not to say the Chinese government is benevolent or anything, it quite clearly isn't, but to claim legally tried and convicted death penalties are murder is a mighty big slur on, say, Texas and Florida for starters...

No big government is ever pure. And until America and the UK makes some steps towards putting their own houses in order, well, no-one here would deny you the right to whinge about other countries, but don't expect to be taken seriously.

Re:civil liberties

[b3x]

Step 1: like what? i mean, what can you do to piss off the president? mock his ears, speaking ability, or his intelligence? like he gives a shit ...
Step 2: threatening peoples lives, plotting to kill people or destroy buildings, taking up arms against this country are all perfectly good reasons to have your "civil liberties" taken away. i strongly recommend you refrain from those activities, and you should be fine ...
Step 2b: see 2
Step 3: your a nut ...

Re:civil liberties

[frogstar_robot]

Not to say the Chinese government is benevolent or anything, it quite clearly isn't, but to claim legally tried and convicted death penalties are murder is a mighty big slur on, say, Texas and Florida for starters...

You can get the death penalty in China for tax evasion as well as over 2000 other offenses most of which aren't rape or murder. The death penalty in China is a whole 'nother kettle of fish from what we have here in the US. I'm not a fan of the death penalty in this country either but even I recognize the difference between the type of things it is applied to in the US and the type of things that earn in China. Even in Texas or Florida you have to do something pretty heinous (multiple murder, sex-related murder, murder-kidnapping, serial rape, ...get the picture?) to ride the gurney. Things like tax fraud aren't going to result in one of those nifty Death Buses pulling up in front of your jailhouse.

I'll also point out that organs aren't harvested from convicts unless they voluntarily agreed to do so. We also don't charge the families for the chemicals or bullets used to carry out executions. Furthermore, the families of the executed are further respected in that the bodies are returned to them for funeral rites. About the only thing in common between the death penalty in China and here is that convicts can die. The thresholds necessary to earn the penalty and the ways in which it is carried out couldn't be more different.

Re:civil liberties

[sauron_of_mordor]

Step 2: threatening peoples lives, plotting to kill people or destroy buildings, taking up arms against this country are all perfectly good reasons to have your "civil liberties" taken away. i strongly recommend you refrain from those activities, and you should be fine ... -> NO NO NO not without the due process of law. He is talking about people who were not afforded that. foreigners who take up arms against a nation are also subject to appropriate processes and conduct no matter what heinous crime you believe they commited. The way this works is evolutionary and "ok sounding" tweaks to your rights that result in ambiguity that can be exploited by a potentially malicious government. In the UK we see introduction of laws that makes it illegal to voice certain opinions about terrorism. When Hitler comes to power after the next election, be sure that he will exploit the lack of definition of "terrorism", "encourage", and "glorify" in that legislation to use the *law* as a weapon against "undesirable" elements in society. Step 3: your a nut ... nah - you just don't know enough history....

Re:civil liberties

[VendettaMF]

Shades of grey don't make strong arguments. And you left a few traditional death penalty earners out of the American list.

The question is, just how much do you have to cheat your government of to qualify as a traitor? How much do you have to steal toqualify as having taken the value of a human life? (And just to forestall, I'll guess the claim that we don't price human life in the west is floating across your mind, to which I'll just issue a pre-emptive "Bullshit".

Don't get me wrong, China has a heck of a lot of problems, and America/Britain etc have a ways to go as they pass on the way down, but China (at least in the cities) really ain't that bad. Quite damngood in fact.

Have I dealt mostly with richer more influential chinese people? Yes. Am I ignorant of the poorer folks situation? No. I've travelled as extensively outside the cities as a foreigner can. I've seen the "farming" communities, where a family will live for 3 months on the few mao they can get for a lost hubcap. But even at the worst here the lives are certainly no worse than those of the bums circling benches of every park/subway/underpass of NY...

As for the way it's carried out, dead is dead. A bullet in the base of the skull is every bit as painless as an anaesthesised lethal injection, and potentially a lot more humane than the chair.

As for the bodies, well, yeah, grant you that, though with the side note that folks here apparently just aren't that emotional about dead flesh. It's common practise that the hospital of death includes cremation and disposal in the basic bills when the time comes. So far in China I've seen two graves (technically tombs) and no urns.

Re:civil liberties

[dwayneabailey]

Taking up arms against this country is NOT a perfectly good reason to have civil liberties taken away. I direct you to the Declaration of Independence. "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." When this country declared itself independent (hence the clever title for the document), the "founding fathers" thought ahead enough to say that if the government was getting out of control, it is our right to take up arms against it, and remove it. I am all for safety, but the benefits must outweigh the costs. So far, I don't see that happening. I, for one, could do without all the covert operations the government is performing in the name of safety.

Re:civil liberties

[nexxuz]

Step 1: like what? i mean, what can you do to piss off the president? mock his ears, speaking ability, or his intelligence? like he gives a shit ...

Talk bad about his daddy.

Step 2: threatening peoples lives, plotting to kill people or destroy buildings, taking up arms against this country are all perfectly good reasons to have your "civil liberties" taken away. i strongly recommend you refrain from those activities, and you should be fine ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_t he_United_States_Constitution
Please read.

Step 3: your a nut ......

I really wish people could have "intelligent" conversations without resorting to 2nd grade name calling.

Re:Only idiots use Wikipedia!

[Anonymous Coward]

Err... You just pissed agains the wind.

Re:Stupid critics- old news: Oprah v Beef industry

[iamcf13]

In the crazy world we now inhabit, expect to see a lawsuit against the critics for restraint of trade.

Old news.

Oprah vs. Beef Industry

Relevent links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oprah_Winfrey_Sho w

Scroll down to 'Tuesdays With Dr Phil'

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859 -1&q=oprah+beef

Assorted related links via Google

Be thankfull meat processing isn't as bad now as it was in THE JUNGLE

'Uncut original' pay version on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1884365302/103-59 32692-9835849?v=glance&n=283155

Shouldn't this version be PD as well?

Anyone interested in just posting the 'uncut' portions somewhere so people can add it to their Project Gutenberg copies? If PG did it, they'd get into trouble for sure!

Slashdot CAPTCHA: calumny (old way to say 'defamation') coincidence?

We can help the Chinese people

[CurtMonash]

I say again -- beating Chinese censorship is easy in the short term, very hard in the long term, but probably also doable in the long term. But it needs a lot of smart techie brainpower from the outside to beat. http://www.monashreport.com/2006/04/17/how-to-beat -chinese-censorship-operation-peking-duck/ is my idea of a good place to start.

Mod parent funny

[bcat24]

Good joke. I wish I had mod points for you.

Tiscali does something right for a change!!

[Strolls]

This is the most positive news I have ever encountered with respect to Tiscali. My personal experience is with hours of phonecalls to their useless technical support over customers' ADSL connections.

But in this case, I think Tiscali did only one thing wrong in their letter The British Phonographic Industry Limited.... they should have added "please feel free to phone us to discuss this further"

I can just imagine the conversation now:

Tech support: my name is Sanjay, how can I help you?
<listens>
Tech support: so these people have been pirating your music? Have you tried reinstalling your modem drivers?

Re:Tiscali does something right for a change!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never actually had to call Tiscali over a technical matter, but I did have a few comedy moments when trying to sign up.

Me: Hello, I'd like to sign up for your broadband offer please. [Gives name and telephone number]

Tiscali (England): I'm sorry sir. You already have broadband and we can't just take over another company's line.

Me: Ermm... no. I don't have broadband.

Tiscali: Perhaps you've had broadband in the past?

Me: No. I'd like to pay you money for your services... may I please? (I didn't actually say this. I'm paraphrasing for humourous effect).

Tiscali: I'm sorry. You'll have to call British Telecom and sort it out with them.

[I call BT to be told in no uncertain terms that Tiscali are talking out of their arses. I call Tiscali again]

Me: Hello, I'd like to sign up for your broadband offer please. [Gives name and telephone number]

Tiscali: No problem sir.

I gave my telephone number and address. I go through the sign up procedure, and get the sales droid to read it back to me to ensure that everything is correct. One week later a postal letter arrives giving me my estimated connection date. Two weeks later I go to Tiscali's website to check on the progress to find a problem ticket for me saying that "My address is incorrect and does not match the BT record." [mind boggles]. I phone Tiscali's sales line again (freephone) ... and I'm told that they cannot deal with the problem since it's not a sales matter. I'll have to call their (pay) tech support number. I reply that it's not a technical problem. You've just got my address wrong, and you haven't sold me anything yet. I'm still trying to *buy* your service but can't because they can't make records properly. So I call their pay tech support number and get through to a woman with a strong Indian accent... who, much to my surprise, deals with the matter quickly and professionally.

Re:Tiscali does something right for a change!!

[Strolls]

So I call their pay tech support number and get through to a woman with a strong Indian accent... who, much to my surprise, deals with the matter quickly and professionally.

Yup. Indian tech support seems to be quite mixed - like everywhere, I guess - and I've had good experiences with them, too.
(Not Tiscali's though, I don't think).

One of the biggest gripes from my customers - who are not IT professionals by any means - is that they can't understand "a word they're saying" when they call Indian tech support. And it seems to be all the biggest ISPs - like BT & Tiscali - who market their services to Joe Consumer who also like to out-source their tech support in this way. Eventually they'll learn, but it may take a while - it seems to me that (at least here in the UK) Joe & Jane Consumer have a massive inertia about changing ISPs, and even if they know their ISP is crap it's easier than changing to someone else. But stitch them up enough and consumers have longer memories than elephants, and once they've left you it'll be a very long time before they come back.

Stroller.

Reuters threatened

[porkThreeWays]

Reuters and other traditional news organizations are threatened by Wikipedia and news blogs. The original article just looked like an opportunity to take some shots at wikipedia and was pretty lame. They frankly seem scared. It just seems extremely odd for them to report such a non-event.

I think instead of attacking new forms of information delivery they should work on becoming a more credible news source. Mainstream media has become horrible in the past few years.

"First pressed into service.."?

[Lord Bitman]

If duct tape wasnt already actively being used and seen as invaluable, how could it have been used for emergency repairs on Apollo 13? Did I miss the part where NASA modified a nuclear missile to special deliver the roll?

Search engines are better now.

[Slithe]

IMO, search engines, such as Google, return better results now than Yahoo!, Lycos, or Altavista returned in 1996. I remember one time where I searched for information about Starfox, and one of the returned results was "Fuck Tits Ass Nude". Searching for information on another video game, was where I learned the phrase "popping cherries". In recent years, I have only seen commercial hijacking of search engines if my query related to sexuality.

Re:Search engines are better now.

[mrcaseyj]

>IMO, search engines, such as Google, return better results now than Yahoo!, Lycos, or Altavista returned in 1996.

Which part of 1996? I don't remember which years but if my memory serves me, search quality degraded very rapidly when searching became popular. At one point, before I found out about Google, I had basically given up on search engines because they barely returned anything but garbage. Google was revolutionary, but it's nothing compared to what it would be if they didn't have to fight spammers. It's actually funny to think that there was a time when the "keywords" meta tag in web pages was actually given serious weight by search engines. For a search engine to put major trust in the keywords meta tag today would be about like trusting nobody would steal a pile of cash laying on the sidewalk. If you think Google gives good results today, imagine if nobody tried to fake out the search engines. The results would be massively better.

Pisses me off that...

[paulmer2003]

...These laptops are probally going to some suburb. I wish these kind of things happened where I live, in like Oakland California...Has anyone even fucking SEEN schools in Bay Area innercity? Among the nations worst. Fucking arnold said he cared about education no :(

Re:Pisses me off that...

[DaveV1.0]

From the blurb above:

The State of Maine has renewed its controversial 'Laptops for Middle-schoolers' program this week.

Next time, try reading. Or do you not know where MAINE is?

Re:Pisses me off that...

[spikedvodka]

These laptops are going to schools in [what counts for] large cities in Maine, but also the small rural schools and everything in between.

The program does help schools get computers into the classrooms

Re:Pisses me off that...

[Secrity]

The test scores show that Oakland schools truly do suck (even worse than LA schools), but that the other SF Bay Area schools are doing pretty well. What is it about Oakland that makes their schools so much worse than other SF Bay Area schools? Would giving laptops to Oakland students be a cost effective way to improve test scores?

According to an article in the SF Chronicle, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/ a/2006/01/22/BAG5QGRAK21.DTL&type=printable the San Francisco schools (which includes many Bay Area innercity schools) are doing quite well. Many parents have a problem with a lottery system which can mean that kids don't attend their neighborhood school and there is a perceived quality problem, but the schools themselves seem to actually be pretty good. San Francisco scored 745 on the last Academic Performance Index, with 800 considered excellent; San Jose and Berkeley both scored 737 and Los Angeles scored 649. It wasn't in the article, Oakland scored 634.

Re:Pisses me off that...

[Krojack]

There was a study done that showed something like 15% of American high school students don't even know where America is on a map. Maybe he's one of them?

Re:Pisses me off that...

[iokanaan]

Do not blame the schools or teachers for a child's lack of learning. The fault lies with the parents who do not teach their children to value education and decide the school is responsible for raising the child when on school premises. I've known many people who did very well scholastically while in a inner city school because their family supported and nurtured the child's mind.

Any fault for a child's bad education is on the parent's and family's head, they are responsible for ensuring the child is properly motivated and has the needed tools to improve their lives. Stop hiding behind the victimization attitude and step up to become a volunteer tutor if you think the schools need help. Start some grassroot organizations to lobby your government officials or elect new ones that will do something about.

Either way, quit bitching and do something to organize from within the community to improve it. The reason for any city residents' needs being ignored by politicians is because they don't vote or organize to show they will respond.

Jet pack?

[blackraven14250]

Does anyone else think it's a bad idea to strap your jetpack onto your back with duct tape??

Re:Jet pack?

[blmatthews]

Well, if it's a choice betweeen strapping it on with duct tape, and not having it strapped on at all...

Piers Sellers = U.S. citizen

[Anonymous Coward]

Piers Sellers was born in the UK, but he is a naturalized U.S. citizen. See his bio on nasa.gov.

OMG, Peter Sellers isn't dead, he's spaced!

[Anonymous Coward]

or was being the first man on the cover of Playboy more of a "giant leap"?

Robots in space

[blmatthews]

Not!

"First pressed into service during the homemade repairs that saved Apollo 13 from disaster in 1970, the tape has since been at the center of a variety of ingenious quick fixes dreamed up by the space agency's scientists. The latest patch-up will secure British astronaut Piers Sellers to his jet-propelled backpack today for the final spacewalk of the shuttle Discovery's 13-day mission to the International Space Station."

A perfect example of why the argument "robots are just as good as humans at space exploration" doesn't work. When was the last time a robot came up with an "ingenious quick fix"?

Re:Robots in space

[StrawberryFrog]

A perfect example of why the argument "robots are just as good as humans at space exploration" doesn't work. When was the last time a robot came up with an "ingenious quick fix"?

When was the last time that a fault on a robot/remotely controlled craft cost human lives? Robots are expendable.

When was the last time that a robot craft had to make the dangerous and expensive return journey to the Earth's surface? Robots have the advantage of not needing to do so unless there is a sample to return.

When was the last time that a craft with humans on board went to the surface of Mars or among the moons of Saturn? Robots have done both.

Robots are not "just as good as humans at space exploration" - their proven track record is that they have done so very much more. And that gap will only widen - the standard of robots is improving faster than the standard of human.

Re:Robots in space

[tehcyder]

When was the last time a robot came up with an "ingenious quick fix"?

Ah, but when was the last time you had to fire a robot for masturbating to animal porn outside a church while smoking crack and taking pot shots at passers-by with an air pistol? Eh?

We can

[ta bu shi da yu]

We could apply semi-protection, but at the same time you should have seen the article about the 7 July 2005 London bombings. Speculation was rife with, at one point, a edit coming in every 1-2 seconds. However, by now we have a very factual and very informative article. It's not always good to place semi-protection on a rapidly evolving article.

I think the bottom line, which everyone has so far missed, is that you should be checking your sources on Wikipedia before trusting it completely. I know I do, and I'm an administrator on the project.

Re:We can

[Siward]

I remember hearing about the fury of information coming in to Wikipedia after the bombings. The reason I mentioned an editor or moderator for an evolving current event is just that some people, like myself, would rather not see so much conflicting information. I'm not trying to say that editors or moderators should act like traditional newspaper editors; perhaps merely keeping out the ludicrous or poorly-formed edits would suffice (though I'm not entirely sure how many edits this would comprise as a current event unfolds). Of course the Wikipedia article is good now that the picture is clear and edits can be checked against the current pool of knowledge or investigated if nobody knows for certain.

I've always said that the criticisms against Wikipedia for being open and online are inane because anyone doing serious research checks their sources (regardless of the medium in which the information has been published), and no piece of information is worthwhile unless confirmed by other experts. However, I didn't think it worth mentioning given the lack of expert information while a current event unfolds -- even big media stories change during current events.

Re:We can

[tbannist]

Actually I think the point which many people are missing is: You should be checking your sources. There's a chance that anything you read/hear is wrong. If it's important make sure you back it up with independent corroberation.

Re:mwa ha ha - Think then post

[JPribe]

These are being bought by government for ***KIDS***

They are suppose to work, not look good or be *in*. That is why the kids wear $150 shoes....

OT: Chapter title

[The Cornishman]

Scouring, not Scourging. That chapter of the Return of the King is called The Scouring of the Shire. I think it was a mistake to leave this out of the film version; it's a vital piece of the narrative structure.

The Handyman's Secret Weapon ...

[allanbjork]

... Duct Tape!

Can you picture Red Green in a space suit saying that?

Re:mwa ha ha - Think then post

[utopianfiat]

You know, this isn't a Designer Shoe vs. no-name generic brand issue, this is a Expensive, Long-lasting shoe vs. A shoe that will explode

Duct tape

[ninewands]

NASA has solved another problem with their favorite repair device, a roll of duct tape.

Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, it has a dark side, and it binds the universe together.

Re:mwa ha ha - Think then post

[JPribe]

Hah! So true, you've got me on that one. I love that video.