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Metcalfe's Law Refutation Explained

sdpinpdx writes "According to this article in the July 2006 IEEE Spectrum Metcalfe's Law (that the value of a network is n^2) is wrong (it's probably only n log(n)). The authors speculate this had something to do with the .com bubble, and that their more conservative model might help alleviate the next one. The article includes an interesting quote from Metcalfe: 'The original point of my law (a 35mm slide circa 1980, way before George Gilder named it...) was to establish the existence of a cost-value crossover point--critical mass--before which networks don't pay. The trick is to get past that point, to establish critical mass.'" This would seem to be an update to a story we ran more than a year ago.

79 comments

  1. Whoa. A year ago! by KingEomer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hrm. The editors can't recognize that an article is a dupe of one submitted two days ago, but they can recognize that an article is related to one posted a year ago? Weird. :P

    1. Re:Whoa. A year ago! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > Hrm. The editors can't recognize that an article is a dupe of one submitted two days ago, but they can recognize that an article is related to one posted a year ago? Weird. :P

      The URL goes to a coral cache link. Took 'em a year to do that, too :)

    2. Re:Whoa. A year ago! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, from the sound of things, it would seem that this discussion on how unreliable the model is at determining the real-world value of each node on the network might be the silver bullet argument of why an edited publication like Slashdot manages to maintain a content value above that of Digg, which is user generated and whose major stories are user (and procedurally) driven.

      In the (likely) reality that each submitter and commenter on Slashdot was more likely to have something to submit or comment of value than their more numerous counterparts on Digg, Slashdot maintains a greater cumulative network value than Digg does.

      Or at least, it's why I keep coming here (and also why I haven't bothered making an account).

  2. Linky... by Jaysu · · Score: 0, Redundant
    --
    It has been said that 63% of all statistics are made up
    1. Re:Linky... by Jaysu · · Score: 5, Informative

      just kidding... try this one:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_Law

      --
      It has been said that 63% of all statistics are made up
    2. Re:Linky... by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thanks, you just lowered the value of the network by adding an incorrect link. ;)

    3. Re:Linky... by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      And two moderators further lowered the value of the network by modding up the broken link without clicking on it first.

      And we've both lowered the value of the netowrk by posting offtopic comments.

      I suspect this demostrates that the value of a network is closer to 1/n^2.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
  3. Hmm, so what if by JPribe · · Score: 4, Funny

    So what if I spend 10 minutes devising some silly and arbitrary, yet very simple formula to place value on something as subjective as the value of a network. But, I'll do one for patent lawsuits...though this formula will give the relative ignorance of the original patent, measured in PES-Bs (patent examiner smoke-breaks.) I think I will square it by LEMIs (Large Entity Monetary Incentives) and divide that by the total number of patents submitted in that CY (Calendar Year.)

    So we get: (PES-B ^ LEMI) / CY Patent total.

    Can I get that formula named after me??

    --

    Why go fast when you can go anywhere? O|||||||O
    1. Re:Hmm, so what if by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Sure, join the MBAs and the other astrologists, one more formula that doesn't calculate or predict anything sensible won't hurt.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Hmm, so what if by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      Minor point tho, you didn't do any squaring. You did PES-B to the power of LEMI, which will lead to higher end values if LEMI > 2.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    3. Re:Hmm, so what if by JPribe · · Score: 1

      While I appreciate the correction, I know and it just doesn't matter. I was being 100% facetious, even if I am actually 30% Interesting and 70% Funny...the point is that people try to model *anything* because "it looks better or more convincing," which of course is true: the sheeple always fall for it. Hell, I occasionally fall for it.

      --

      Why go fast when you can go anywhere? O|||||||O
    4. Re:Hmm, so what if by jaweekes · · Score: 1

      Why not? That's what happened with Moore's Law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moores_law

    5. Re:Hmm, so what if by DataSurge · · Score: 1

      Of course, what's exiting is Metcalfe's law * Moore's law = the new net. It's not just bigger, it can do more. Hey, it's a law! :-)

  4. Just tell me... by truthsearch · · Score: 1

    Look, just tell me how many pipes I need and when to buy a truck. Anything else is beyond our comprehension. Plus, does this even compensate for the poker chips and horses? I don't think so.

    1. Re:Just tell me... by NonSequor · · Score: 4, Funny

      The internet isn't made of pipes you fool. It's made of tubes.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    2. Re:Just tell me... by HoboMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

      Pipes, tubes, same difference. The real important thing is that we have those lottery balls to clean them out after the pocker chips get stuck.

      --
      Remember kids, tin foil doesn't work, so use LeadHat.
    3. Re:Just tell me... by EvanED · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't know whether this post (+ the knowledge of the reference) or the fact that it was modded 'insightful' is funnier...

    4. Re:Just tell me... by tashanna · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's right, the value of the tubes increases with the log. Just like pumbing.

      - Tash
      Vrooomm...

  5. Refutation? by Otter · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't think this is as much a "refutation" as it is three people's assertion countering some other guy's assertion. Since the one guy is richer than the other three put together, I'd say the burden of proof is on them.

    1. Re:Refutation? by treeves · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're probably right, but I thought I'd mention that one of the author's names I recognized as a top-notch mathematician: Andrew M. Odlyzko. I read about him in a book about the race to prove the Riemann Hypothesis.

      I'd say he's a pretty smart guy - I don't about practical or "street" smarts - but some smart people don't value money so highly.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  6. Some Ns Are More Equal Than Others by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That law treats a network as if its only value is its interconnectedness. Especially while some nodes send more info than they receive, some nodes are more valuable, and some connections are more valuable. Unless the actual information transmitted has no value to the network.

    Which is what I've gathered from Metcalfe's InfoWorld columns since then.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Some Ns Are More Equal Than Others by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 1
      It seems to me that there are cases where adding nodes to a network can make it less valuable.

      For example, email became less valuable when spammers discovered it.

    2. Re:Some Ns Are More Equal Than Others by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Its value to the spammers increased its value.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    3. Re:Some Ns Are More Equal Than Others by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      Decreasing its value to everyone else...

      Place a negitive value on some nodes, that a major spamming node may be worth a -10 on the network. It will soon me clear that Metcalfe's Law is an easy solution to the problem - neat, plausible, and wrong.

    4. Re:Some Ns Are More Equal Than Others by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I don't see that the value gain by the spamming nodes is equal to, or greater, than the loss by the rest of the nodes. That makes the variance of n even more pronounced.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  7. Value could be variable. by Kaenneth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Depending upon the uniqueness of each node.

    Having two different Legal dictionaries offers less definitions than having both a Legal and a Medical dictionary.

    Two bricklayers or two Carpenters may build a house slower than one carpenter and one bricklayer.

    And a car wouldn't get very far if all it's wheels spun clockwise.

    Back when computers were more specific purpose (This one is for Payroll, this one for Budget, this one for Customer tracking, this one for the actual Job...) linking them together had amazing potential, but now when an entire operation could be run off one machine (Quickbooks, Photoshop, Coreldraw, Web Browser, Fax server were all together one one machine I know of, and all critical for the business) there's not that much data that needs to move over a network to run the business.

    Wikipedia, for example, would still be very useful even if it had zero links to external sites, because in itself it encompasses so much. Amazon does not need to offer links to other retailers, because they sell near everything.

    1. Re:Value could be variable. by rowama · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia, for example, would still be very useful even if it had zero links to external sites...

      Yeah, but what if there were no incoming links -- HTTP_REFERRER and HUMAN_EYE links? All of those links give Wikipedia its value. If there were no readers, there would be no value.

    2. Re:Value could be variable. by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

      a car wouldn't get very far if all it's wheels spun clockwise.

      Uh, they all DO spin in the same direction (unlike the other examples where things are actually different) - what changes is your point of reference, looking from a different side ;)

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    3. Re:Value could be variable. by kfg · · Score: 1

      Two bricklayers or two Carpenters may build a house slower than one carpenter and one bricklayer.

      However, 27 carpenters and 46 bricklayers may build a house slower than one "special class" shop student who isn't allowed to handle anything "pointy."

      Unless they "cooperate" by assigning 70 people to go for coffee and donuts, at which point the house may stall at the meeting stage when all the time available gets used up argueing over who gets to drive.

      KFG

    4. Re:Value could be variable. by maird · · Score: 1

      I agree, the value of nodes (and even a single node) must be variable. The carpenters/bricklayers example is good but I think the specific/general purpose computers one is less so. The nodes have moved from the host to the applications themselves but the number of nodes hasn't reduced to one in the case of special purpose computers being replaced by a general purpose computer. That aside, there is lots of evidence that I find supportive of variable value nodes. The contents of a box that can't be opened (node with no links) can't have value except if it has negative worth, e.g. a box that can't be opened that contains a deadly virus. The contents of the box have negative worth to many nodes in the network so the lack of a link (not being in the network) has positive value to that network. If it connected to a suitable network would that whole network not then have lower value in proportion to the number of nodes that actually linked to the virus. OTOH, the value to the virus would be higher which tends to suggest the value of the network depends on the currency being used, i.e. even a single node can have variable value. An unconnected Wikipedia has no (possibly even negative) value to many but a high value to, say, Britannica but they are all on the same network. Or are they. I'm not qualified to say that they are for the purposes of validating a law. Perhaps my internal definition of network is too broad but it seems reasonable to me. The Amazon example is similar to the general/special purpose computer. The things Amazon sells might be argued as being nodes in their own right. But Amazon's value is really in the number of nodes (consumers) that connect to it, so not offering links to other retailers (which Amazon kind of does anyway) doesn't mean it has no connections but it does further indicate to me that the value each node in a network is not the same as the value of other nodes (which is the point of the rebuttal I believe). IOW, more of the people that connect to Amazon connect to it than to each other. Interestingly, what I contribute to Amazon benefits you if we share a taste in something or if we spend money that keeps Amazon afloat. It's almost as if I actively linked to you via a symbiotic protocol in the same network even though we never actually connected via the Amazon "protocol". Again, is my definition of network faulty.

    5. Re:Value could be variable. by nyctopterus · · Score: 0

      Yeah but surely "clockwise" and "anticlockwise" are point of reference concepts?

    6. Re:Value could be variable. by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      In other words, dupes reduce the value of the network.

  8. grap theory , brookes' law, spherical chickens by fermion · · Score: 4, Interesting
    One thing that people tend to do is take first approximations and limited domain fits and try to expand them to be a rule of life, the universe, and everything. Then when you try to explain that the chicken is not in fact spherical, they get really mad and call you a liar.

    The thing we seem to know from things like process control, is that it takes a finite amount overhead to manage any group, and a very finite amount of resources to bring an outsider into a group. This is Brookes; Law, that says bringing more people onto a late project will only make it later. We see this action around us right now.

    What I find most fascinating is how easily people will allow themselves to be deluded by a model, even though the reality is all around them. If we look at something like graph theory we see certain features. For instance, no one has an extremely large number of close friends. Most of us have what can be considered concentric circles of people we know, each group out is usually bigger, but more loosely connected. Communicating with the outer circles are very inefficient. Business are arranged the same way.I think what confused people is that the internet, like the telephone, made geographic distances less important, so it is easier to keep up communications with someone across the world, but that does not mean that the person's ability to relate has been increased.

    Additionally, not everyone, or everything, can competently complete all tasks, and not all processes can be factored to take advantage of all resources. At some point one is paying for overhead that does not deliver any added efficiency. I think this is what we are seeing in many international corporations. The corporation supports non-productive real estate, managers, IT, which forces the productive parts of the company to work harder and be less responsive to market forces.

    I would say that that a network initially has a n^2 benefit, but quickly transitions to nlog(n). This is not so. If anything cause the dot com crash, it was not understanding that at some point the overhead begins to be the dominant factor, and efficiency is lost.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  9. How is this supposed to say a thing about value? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Either I don't get it or this is virtual dick-waving. For what I'd say, it's not size that matters, it's how you use it.

    It's not the number of connected hosts that tell you about the value or quality of a network, or how much can be accomplished with it. You can network the biggest LAN in the world and have it play Quake all day, I'd put my money on the 5 computers calculating some more primes back in the basement.

    The value of a network lies in what it connects. Not in its size.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  10. A refutation of the Law, not of Metcalfe by honkycat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    According to the article (and common sense, because Metcalfe is not a short-sighted fool), Metcalfe acknowledges that his original reason for stating his "law" was simply to illustrate that even though small networks might not be interesting, once a certain size was reached, they would become compelling. For this, the distinction between n^2 and n.log(n) is pretty irrelevant -- the significant feature is that both are superlinear (as the article notes). Metcalfe was absolutely correct.

    This is not to say he was unique in recognizing this, or that it'd be surprising for someone invested in selling networks to claim they'll become important. The point is he was not attempting to carefully quantify the scaling effects of networking. Rather, he had an instinct that said networks will be big when they get big. The quickest back-of-the-envelope estimate of the scaling law says n.(n-1)~n^2, so he used that for his talk.

    When networks started to catch on, someone (the name is in the article but I'm too lazy to go back and look it up) grabbed ahold of this tidbit and named it Metcalfe's Law. Doing anything quantitative with this is ridiculous. It's obvious to everyone involved, Metcalfe included, that his "law" was just the simplest superlinear curve, not some carefully constructed value function. Even the new estimate -- n.log(n) -- is on pretty crude footing. I'm sure you can find a good analysis that gives this result, but there is so much ambiguity in what the value function should actually measure that it's hard to know you're doing the right thing.

    Basically, Metcalfe was right. Networks grow in value faster than they grow in node size. His "Law" may be wrong, but it was just a heuristic to begin with. Anyone basing a business model on the details of that law deserved to have their bubble burst.

    1. Re:A refutation of the Law, not of Metcalfe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For this, the distinction between n^2 and n.log(n) is pretty irrelevant -- the significant feature is that both are superlinear (as the article notes). Metcalfe was absolutely correct.

      log(n) grows exponentially slowly compared to n.

      So yeah, n*log(n) grows faster than n^1 and slower than n^2. But it is also true that n*log(n) grows more slowly than n^(1.000001) and so on.

      I'd say that, in a power law context, n^1 is a much better approximation to n*log(n) than n^2 is. Unless me math is totally screwed up, of course. It's been a few years.

    2. Re:A refutation of the Law, not of Metcalfe by honkycat · · Score: 1

      What you say is true, but whether n^2 or n is a better approximation to n.log(n) starts to depend on how big you assume n to be. If all you need is enough superlinearity to get the phase transition in network usefulness, then the distinction may be moot. "Absolutely" was the wrong word there, I really meant he was definitely correct. Absolutely, he was off in his math and therefore he was "absolutely" incorrect, but correct enough to take to the bank...

    3. Re:A refutation of the Law, not of Metcalfe by hicksw · · Score: 1

      Actually, the precise formula is

                n.log(log(n))

  11. In defense of n log(n) by E++99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    (Aside from the fact that 2^n and n^2 are both absurd in any kind of network I can think of), n log(n) has the advantage over all the other models mentioned in that it correctly gives a zero value for a network of one, which is not a network at all and obviously adds no value. Or if you want the combined value of the network and the networked, maybe it would be n + n log(n).

    1. Re:In defense of n log(n) by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      I think you are reading too much into the accuracy of the formula. It is only trying to show a general "shape" for the value, not an exact number. The value for n=1 is really irrelevant. If it were, we would simply add a constant to make it work. (n-1)^2 still gives us the same shape and the zero value.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:In defense of n log(n) by E++99 · · Score: 1

      True, but generally I think that simple formulas that reflect laws of nature (or economics or whatever) tend to still make sense when you plug in a one or a zero, if they are valid to begin with.

    3. Re:In defense of n log(n) by honkycat · · Score: 1

      Not if we're talking about asymptotic limits, as we are here. We're looking at the large n limit, when n is far from 0. Constant factors, scaling, etc, are thrown out. That's why we call Metcalfe's Law n^2 instead of n*(n-1)/2 (which, incidentally, also gives 0 at n=1, but that part is ignored).

    4. Re:In defense of n log(n) by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      Why is n^2 such an unbelievable function? Add n users to a group. How many relationships do you have? n(n-1)/2. As n becomes large, this reduces to n^2/2...

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    5. Re:In defense of n log(n) by E++99 · · Score: 1
      Why is n^2 such an unbelievable function? Add n users to a group. How many relationships do you have? n(n-1)/2. As n becomes large, this reduces to n^2/2...
      Maybe because as n becomes large, a smaller percentage of those n(n-1)/2 relationships are used in any real-life network. If you were going to start with n^2 there would have to be some inverse component added to the function to account for that.

      With n^2, the nth user adds 2n-1 value. That would mean that the next Internet user (the approx 1e9th) will add a million times more value to the Internet than the 1000th user did. That doesn't sound right to me.
  12. Value? by RinzeWind · · Score: 3, Funny

    So... what are the units of the result? Dollars? Web 2.0 beta credits?

    1. Re:Value? by Ithika · · Score: 1

      The same units as for ontological depth, by strange coincidence.

    2. Re:Value? by Ithika · · Score: 1

      Shit, I meant ontogenetic depth. Oops. :)

    3. Re:Value? by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Duh, Libraries Of Congress of course.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  13. Is it possible to refute such a hypothesis? by hey! · · Score: 1

    It is possible to refute this hypothesis, given that "value" is so vaguely defined? Stated as the original "law" states it, I'm not sure that value is something you can state in dollars and cents. If it isn't, I'm not sure what it means.

    Different aspects of the network which have "value" scale different ways.

    For example while the Internet has probably grown considerably since 1999, I don't really use more web sites regularly, or buy from more vendors than I used to. Yes there is Froogle and so on, but I'd bet most consumers after trying this sort of thing settle on a small set of vendors who have good but not necessarily optimal and have good enough service. I tend to go right to New Egg for example, rather than searching Froogle.

    It seems to me that the maximum number of providers (speaking in a broad sense) that a consumer is apt interact with, multiplied by the number of consumers, is a rough measure of the Internet's economic potential. Naturally this leaves aside B2B, but to be meaningful you'd have to disaggregate this sector. Businesses dealing in commodities are likely to expand in an N^2 fashion, but value for relationship oriented business is probably O(n).

    On the other hand... The Internet's disruptive potential probably is O(n^2). That is I may not connect to some random node out there, but I could and if there was a reason to I would. It creates the potential for "killer apps" that shift consumer behavior in unexpected ways.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Is it possible to refute such a hypothesis? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The actual 'law' is more of a 'there is a crossover point'. It is somewhere between 0 and n^2. Someone latched onto the n^2 bit.

      For example the value of a network could be 0. If everyone plugged their computers together but had nothing to say to each other it would be 0.

      It sounds like someone narrowed up the range a bit to be an upper bound of n(log(n)) to make it a more 'realistic' number. That is more emperical evidence than actual math. It appears to be a sampling 'law' much like moores law.

    2. Re:Is it possible to refute such a hypothesis? by shawb · · Score: 1

      This really depends on the network, and what you are trying to accomplish with it.

      Let's consider two major online sales venues (The models will be idealized a bit, but...)
      Amazon: Adding customers to Amazon does not really increase the value much to each customer, maybe Amazon is capable of getting better rates of bulk purchases from publishers, and is financially able to stock more books, but the growth of the value of Amazon is fairly linear with respect to number of users.
      eBay: Adding users to eBay has a direct positive correlation to existing users: More users mean it is more likely that shoppers will be able to find the items that you want, and people selling will more likely to find someone willing to buy the items at the desired price. There are exceptions, of course. Amazon does list other sellers as well, and therefore bringing in more customers means more people would be willing to offer their products on Amazon, which offers better selection to customers.
      Also, eBay would not have a literal N^2 total value curve, in that more users means that both buyers and sellers are going to run into more competition (driving prices up for the buyers when other people want to buy the same goods as you, driving selling price down for sellers due to other people offering the same item or an equivalent good.) But in general the ability to find someone willing to buy or sell rare items will increase as the number of users goes up.

      But any of these models really won't accurately model the total value of a network, although it MAY be possible to model a given implementation of a network designed for a given purpose, it would likely require a complex polynomial with some coefficients even being negative. At certain size ranges it is even possible that adding more nodes to the network reduces the total value: troublesome choke points can be stressed reducing reliability, or the network could grow large enough to allow for parasitic elements to thrive (Spam, Viruses, Spyware, Trolls, Scam Artists, etc) but then increasing the network size even further could overcome these negative traits, I.E. making the network large enough for checks and balances against the parasitic elements, making it financially worthwhile to solve the bottlenecks with new technology or physical network topologies.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  14. Does it really matter? by rowama · · Score: 1

    The article is a moderately interesting and loooooong account of how to tweak a growth law based on observations that the previous law does not explain history well enough. For those among us who have fortunes depending on this (let's see a raise of hands, please), it may be very important. But for the rest of us it really doesn't matter much. My concern is that /. may take Nlog(N) seconds longer to load (where N=number of posts), not whether CmdrTaco will make a bazillion instead of a gazillion next year.

  15. Analysts like Gilder like doing this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    So what if I spend 10 minutes devising some silly and arbitrary, yet very simple formula to place value on something as subjective as the value of a network.


    Can I get that formula named after me??



    Only if you can get some analyst like the George Gilder mentioned in TFA to popularize it. Remember, this is the guy who says Bernie Ebbers i sa nice guy and is a favorite editior fo Forbes (of SCO quality 'journalism') fame.

  16. The REAL motive for the law... by csoto · · Score: 1

    ...which everyone seems to be forgetting, was for Metcalfe to raise the value of 3COM stock. If networks weren't seen as "valuable," then people wouldn't buy networking equipment...

    --
    There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
  17. authors' analysis doesn't just miss the boat... by jrtom · · Score: 1

    ...it never even realizes that the boat existed.

    That is: the authors' analysis is fundamentally flawed in a couple of different respects.

    (1) They don't even attempt to establish an actual metric for the value of a network. Without that, any counterarguments to any previous assertions regarding network value that one might make are basically so much handwaving. (One can of course make the same objection to Metcalfe's Law, but saying "My hand-wavy claim is better than yours!" isn't much of an argument.)

    On a related note, any discussion of network value that doesn't even take into account the semantics of the network (i.e., what the edges represent) is even more useless.

    (2) Let's say that we will approximate the value of a network as being proportional to the number of edges (links); we'll ignore, for the moment, the possibility that edge weights might differ.

    _In practice_, the number of individuals that one can be meaningfully connected to in a network--i.e., the number of incident edges to a node--will be limited. _This_ is the real problem with Metcalfe's Law.

    For example, suppose that the edges represent friendships (as identified by the individuals, i.e., A is connected to B if A and B each agree that they are friends.) The number of friends that I can have is limited: I can't even _meet_ six billion people for one minute each (even assuming that I could remember them as individuals) before my personal clock runs out. This same argument applies (although the limitations will be different) to financial transactions, telephone calls, IM buddies, and so forth. Sure, if all 6 billion people were signed into Your Favorite IM Client and I could open a group chat with them, they could all read my words...but that's not a meaningful relationship, it's a broadcast--and it has really nothing to do with any network topology.

    1. Re:authors' analysis doesn't just miss the boat... by Ardeaem · · Score: 1
      Either you missed the boat or you didn't read the article.
      (1) They don't even attempt to establish an actual metric for the value of a network. Without that, any counterarguments to any previous assertions regarding network value that one might make are basically so much handwaving.
      Both models discussed are GROWTH models. You do not need a metric to model growth. If a child increases his height by 10% over the course of a year, he increases his height 10% in feet, meters, parsecs, lightyears, cubits. In the article it can be clearly seen that growth is thought of as a ratio, so the units cancel. It is unitless.
      (2) Let's say that we will approximate the value of a network as being proportional to the number of edges (links); we'll ignore, for the moment, the possibility that edge weights might differ.
      Your example of limits on human relations, etc do not hold for the internet. Surely you are right that there is a limit our number of relationships and other things, but we do not interact with the internet on our own all the time. In fact, much of our interaction goes through a mediator (search engine, etc) which has no such real limit. Besides, if you read the article, you would realize that the the nlogn model is justified precisely BECAUSE there are different weightings on values.
    2. Re:authors' analysis doesn't just miss the boat... by jrtom · · Score: 1

      I read the article. I stand by my positions.

      Specifically:

      (1) You do indeed need a metric to model growth, because unless you can agree on what you're measuring, you don't know how to tell whether (or how much) it's growing. That is: we know how fast the _network_ is growing; the question is how fast the _value_ is growing, and that's not meaningful unless you define "value". Your objection is not on point because you appear to implicitly assume that it's obvious what's being measured (which is true of a person's height, and definitely not true in the case of a network).

      (2) What, exactly, do you mean by saying "we don't interact with the internet on our own all the time"? Of course I look at other peoples' content via search engines, but in that context--the web--the question is, IMO, what the value of the web is, and how that changes as more people participate by adding sites and links. In my opinion, you don't add value to the web by browsing it, so your observations of the network via a search engine are not relevant.

      The internet is one way of enabling certain types of social interactions. It does not inherently increase the human capacity for interaction.

      As for the O(n lg n) model: the authors assume a power law distribution is involved, but they don't justify this assumption, and they don't provide supporting evidence (throwing in a few factoids does not count). Again, in the absence of an actual model, their article is just so much speculation, and not in fact an effective refutation of anything.

  18. Re:How is this supposed to say a thing about value by jhines0042 · · Score: 1

    I hate to burst your bubble, and I don't disagree with your statements.

    However the network that he is talking about is not analogous to a LAN. Think of it more as a social network, like the six degrees of separation thing. Who you know matters very little until your network of friends gets to a certain critical size.

    What he was trying to say with algorithm is that you can measure how valuable a social network, not computer network, is.

    --
    42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
  19. When do we get a refutation of Godwin's law? by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 2, Funny

    I mean, with all the Nazi stuff going around these days. It'd be really useful to call a spade a spade!

    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    1. Re:When do we get a refutation of Godwin's law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a spade, you insensitive clod!!

  20. Battle of Fatwas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Laws" my ass. These buggers don't even have proper beards.

  21. I wonder if... by SwashbucklingCowboy · · Score: 1
    this applies to communities as well as networks (a community being a kind of network).

    For example, does the community that forms around an open source project have n log(n) value where n is the number of members in that community?

  22. Re:How is this supposed to say a thing about value by Crispy+Critters · · Score: 1
    "Either I don't get it or..."

    You don't get it.

    The point is not that 10 granny smith apples tied together with string form a more or less valuable network than 5 crays. The comparison is between different networks of the same thing but of different sizes. And it is about the value of the network itself, not what the networked things accomplish. There is an underlying assumption that the metric under consideration values the networking; it is irrelevant that one can always think of a task for which networking doesn't improve performance.

  23. Re:How is this supposed to say a thing about value by MountainLogic · · Score: 4, Informative
    This all came about because Metcalf was trying to make a case for networking (e.g., ethernet). Back then the ethernet cards he was selling were expensive. The decision maker would go, "gee, if it cost $x to network two people why can't Bob just walk down the hall to Jan's office?" If X is greater then the cost of Bob "walking down the hall" (or snail mailing or flying...) then there is no busines case for installing a network. More to the point:

    If the node cost, x, is $100 and there are 100 users, n, then the cost for the network is $10,000.

    If the single user business value, v, of the network is $10 for one user then the ROI for different valuation methods is:

    Linear: vn = $1,000 -- no business case, don't even think about it

    Metcalf's Law: (n(n-1)=2)v = 49,500 -- winner

    Metcalf's Law as misused by dot-bombers: N^2 * V = 100,000 -- "Proves" selling frozen mud on the net is a winner

    As restated by the authors: n long (n) * v = 2000 -- no business case, but better than a flat linear

    There really are two problems here. The scaling formula and setting the business value. If you set the business value for a single connection greater than the cost of the network then it is a no brainer, but back when Metcalf as pushing networking that was a hard case to make and given how many people use /. at work that may still be the case.

  24. What Metcalfe said a year-and-a-half ago by netbuzz · · Score: 1

    Here's what Metcalfe had to say about this same paper from these same academics when they first circulated it in '05:

    http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/6352

  25. That is so crappy by iion_tichy · · Score: 1

    It kind of annoys me: that author throws together some "rules of thumb" sentences and "it seems plausible to assume", and thinks it makes something worthwhile to publish? I don't know if Metcalfs Law is correct or wrong, and I don't care as long as my internet bandwidth doubles every year, but I am a little bit shocked by this display of extremely low standards. Perhaps the author wanted to prove his own point, though: clearly not all additions to the internet are very valuable...

  26. The inverse of Metcalfe's law by btempleton · · Score: 1

    I got a chance to review this article before publication and in my commentary on the draft version I point out not only that Metcalfe's law is wrong, but that often any positive law is wrong, because in many cases, particularly mailing lists, the value of the network eventually starts dropping as the size increases, due to noise and excess signal.

    That's why may people prefer smaller mailing lists to larger communities, and in fact some topics simply can't be handled properly in large groups, even with moderators.

    --
    Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
  27. Well... by Kjella · · Score: 1

    At least you should differentiate between personal communication networks and information networks. If I want to talk to David D. Johnson on IM, the metrics are simple - either he's on the network or he isn't. On the other hand, if I wanted sports results it wouldn't matter if 90% of all news sites got knocked off the Internet - the remainding 10% would do. Networks are also self-specializing, you get on a network because your friends/coworkers/contacts are there. You have also issues like multi-networking (MSN and Yahoo and ICQ instead of DSL or cable), non-uniform network access (e.g. phoning cheaper to phones on your own network, but you can reach any phone), if the network creates cliques (e.g. MMORPG and guilds) or plain interconnects (e.g. phone networks), lock-in like the work put into a myspace profile and so on.

    This in one assertion about another assertion where I can guarantee that the answer is far more complicated than either, or that the actual assertion is only applicable in theoretical textbook situations. Most that operate such a network aren't really that interested in quanitfying how important - they're way too busy trying to find out how to grow instead. The rest fo the time, you need to look at much more of a business case to evaluate how much it's worth - the network size is just one factor.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  28. Kindergarten explanation (aka executive summary) by texaport · · Score: 1
    You can connect each node to one less than the total, but don't double count your paths:

    The number of lines to connect 3 dots = 3*(3-1)/2 = 3
    The number of lines to connect 4 dots = 4*(4-1)/2 = 6
    The number of lines to connect 5 dots = 5*(5-1)/2 = 10
    The number of lines to connect n dots = n*(n-1)/2 = Hey, let's just use an approximation this time.

  29. Re:How is this supposed to say a thing about value by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    The analogy works in social networks too. If your social network consists only of people of the same group (like, say, you're in some sect that only allows contact with others from the sect), your group may be huge but it still offers little insight or input, or "value". If your network consists of people with a very narrow field of expertise, the value is quite limited too.

    If your network consists of few people who are a source of tremenduous insight, every single one of them, your network is small but its value is incredible.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  30. Doing the math by wsanders · · Score: 1

    I sort of see the key insight of Briscoe, Odlyzko, and Tilly that, if you are going to pull a function out of your ass, it makes more sense if the differential of the function flattens out rather than slopes linearly upwards forever, because there is ultimately a decreasing value of each connection as the number of connections increases.

    So they were correct to pull a log function of of their ass, but they could have just as easily pulled out n*ln(n) or some other base. They made no attempt to "calibrate" the model.

    A good insigt is this quotation:

    "Iif Metcalfe's Law were true, it would create overwhelming incentives for all networks relying on the same technology to merge, or at least to interconnect. These incentives would make isolated networks hard to explain. Consider two networks, each with n members. By Metcalfe's Law, each one's value is on the order of n 2, so the total value of both of these separate networks is roughly 2n 2. But suppose these two networks merge. Then we will effectively have a single network with 2n members, which, by Metcalfe's Law, will be worth (2n)2 or 4n 2--twice as much as the combined value of the two separate networks.

    Surely it would require a singularly obtuse management, to say nothing of stunningly inefficient financial markets, to fail to seize this obvious opportunity to double total network value by simply combining the two."

    Inflating these "synergies" was exactly what led to the Bombing Off of the Bubble.

    Original BOT paper:

    http://spectrum.ieee.org.nyud.net:8080/print/4109

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
  31. you are deluded. by weierstrass · · Score: 1

    there is no difference between n(n-1)/2 and n^2 you fool. the only difference is a constant since n(n-1) ~ n^2. since metcalfe didn't include a constant of proportionality in his theory this makes no difference, the point is about asymptotics.

    there is a difference in your numerical example only because it is misconceived.

    --
    my password really is 'stinkypants'
  32. Re:How is this supposed to say a thing about value by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1
    Metcalfe's Law: (n(n-1)=2)v = 49,500 -- winner

    Metcalfe's Law as misused by dot-bombers: N^2 * V = 100,000 -- "Proves" selling frozen mud on the net is a winner

    As restated by the authors: n log (n) * v = 2000 -- no business case, but better than a flat linear


    Um. That's not how Big-O notation works. O(n(n+1)/2) is the same as O(n^2). Constant terms don't matter. So your n log n might as well be 10n log n. Or n ln n. Or whatever. You can't plug in your n into the function and expect a useful number out of it. Big-O growth terms describe how quickly it grows, not what a particular value is.

    The point Metcalfe was making is that after a certain point, the cost of the network grows linearly but the value grows more than linearly (he suggested O(n^2), this paper says O(n log n), same difference). These functions all start under linear growth, cross it, and continue to grow faster. So until you meet that crossing point, there is no business case. But your functions tell you nothing about where that crossing point is - that's real-world data.

    Otherwise we'll see articles about "Metcalfe's Law Disproven! It actually grows at 2n^2 - 4n + C" or whatever hyperaccurate nonsense.
  33. Arguable better than N^2 by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

    I wish I could remember the name so as to give proper credit, but someone pointed out that Metcalfe may have severely understated matters.

    The option value of a network depends on how many groups can form using it. Every time a thousand specialized message boards like "people who audit for security in CUPS on Solaris" form, the network becomes more valuable. The number of possible groups is easy to calculate. A group can be represented as a bitmap with as many bits as there are endpoints, each bit representing whether the node is a member or not.

    The number of possible groups, each of which adds some sliver of value, is then 2^N.

    I don't believe that line of argument(does the value of the Internet really double when one more person joins AOL?) but it does point to interesting lines of thought.

    The definition of "value" is a huge problem too, but others have covered it well in this discussion.

    1. Re:Arguable better than N^2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're thinking of Reed's Law (it is also mentioned in TFA).

      http://www.reed.com/gfn/

  34. Almost as insightful as TFA! by zippthorne · · Score: 1

    Yes, actually that was the whole point of the article. They assumed the values followed a particular distribution (in this case, zipf, one of the most fun to say distributions...) and then derived the "law" based on that, so that's where the nlogn thing comes from.

    Now their assumed distribution might be a little naive, and certainly seems to have been chosen because it results in a relatively clean derived formula, but that's academic. This is a refinement of the orginal observation. A higher-order approximation if you will.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  35. Dixie express by epine · · Score: 1


    And a car wouldn't get very far if all it's wheels spun clockwise.

    It's called NASCAR, and you're right: the race tends to tend exactly where it began.

  36. What ever happened to SCIENTISTS? by daiichi · · Score: 1

    Back in my day, it was really hard to come up with a "Law." You had "hypotheses" (otherwise known as wild-ass guesses), "theories" ("well we tested it and it *looks* right") and after those theories have been tested over and over again without failing ONCE... you called it a "Law." It is a testament of today's liberalization that laws are passed without any supporting evidence for the hypothesis. This apparently now applies to science as well as politics.