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Astronomers Awaiting 1a Supernova

Aryabhata writes to tell us BBC News is reporting that astronomers have sighted a star on the brink of a "1a" supernova. This opportunity presents the first chance astronomers have ever had to view a supernova of this magnitude up close. From the article: "They are so rare that the last one known in our galaxy was seen in 1572 by the great Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe, who first coined the term nova, for "new star", not realizing he was in fact witnessing the violent end of an unknown star. It has long been believed that type 1a supernovae are the death throes of a white dwarf star. But all modern ones have been so distant that it has not been possible to see what had been there beforehand."

22 of 204 comments (clear)

  1. Actually by ArchieBunker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It happened long ago and the light is just now reaching us.

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    1. Re:Actually by Is0m0rph · · Score: 5, Informative

      They mention the star by name many times in the article. Did you actually read it? They mention it in the first few sentences. Here's the wiki on the star: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS_Ophiuchi

    2. Re:Actually by Zocalo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, they do name the star. It's RS Ophiuchi which is 1,950 light-years from Earth according to the linked Wikipedia article. It's worth a look if you are now thinking of doing some amateur astronomy since it also contains some information on some of the star's past failures at going nova and a bunch of related links.

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    3. Re:Actually by Telvin_3d · · Score: 4, Informative
      Well, the Wikipedia article on supernovas says
      a Type Ia supernova would have to be closer than 1000 parsecs (3300 light years) to affect the Earth.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova#Impact_of_s upernovae_on_Earth

      So, who knows? Hollywood disaster movies might have t right after all!
    4. Re:Actually by Lost+Race · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why does it matter whether it "already" happened? We cannot know about it or be affected by it until the first photons reach us. If it happened 1000 years ago 1000 light years away, or 100,000 years ago 100,000 lightyears away, or yesterday 1 lightday away, it's still "happening now" as far as we're concerned.

  2. Wait for it... by 0racle · · Score: 4, Funny

    Any decade now.

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  3. That's nice by guardiangod · · Score: 4, Funny
    /. Headline: Astronomers Awaiting 1a Supernova

    From TFA:
    But soon, RS Oph could pass the tipping point - the nuclear flame will detonate from deep inside the star and blow it apart. How soon is not clear.

    "It could be tomorrow, but most likely it'll be 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 years from now," says Jeno Sokoloski.

    Wow that's some long life astronomers. I wonder if they will be around to see DNF getting release.

    Stupid headline.

  4. Meh, I mean come on by antifoidulus · · Score: 4, Funny

    version 1a? They aren't even in beta yet!

  5. Rho Casspiopiae by 9x320 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Rho Casspioiae is supposedly near the brink of explosion, too, and aside from that, I remember hearing about some luminous supergiant or hypergiant expected to explode in the same constellation, Casspioia.

    Coincidentally, two other supernovas have ocurred in that area, one of which was the one Tycho Brahe saw. Keep an eye on the hypergiants (see: Wikipedia's explanation of how stars are classified)

    1. Re:Rho Casspiopiae by SetupWeasel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Giant stars do not produce type 1a supernovae. Type 1a SN are believed to be caused by a binary system of a giant star and a white dwarf. When the one star becomes a giant, the atmosphere can be so large that it fills its gravity well and spills material onto the white dwarf. The white dwarf, which would never be massive enough to become a supernova on its own, gains the mass from its partner at a trickle until it reaches the mass necessary for it to collapse.

      Because type 1a SN are believed to occur under nearly identical circumstances, they are considered especially important in astronomy. Astronomers believe that they can be used as what they call "standard candles." A "standard candle" is a light source of known brightness. Standard candles are important, because astronomers can directly determine the distance of these sources. Certain stars already act as standard candles, but stars can only be resolved at a certain distance. A type 1a SN can be seen at such a large distance that astronomers believe they can more accurately determine cosmoloigical properties if they can determine exactly how bright one is, and how it may fluctuate under different circumstances.

      Other SN are interesting, but a Type 1a SN in our galaxy might tell us a lot about the entire universe indirectly.

  6. Re:CNN Story is different... by SeaDour · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's a NOVA, when the accumulated mass around a white dwarf in a binary system is launched outward, which the star regularly does. This would be a SUPERNOVA, when the white dwarf within the binary system actually explodes from within.

  7. "Soon" ... by kcbrown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." -- the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

    Not only are the distances vast, the times are vast too. Stars live for billions of years. One year in the lifespan of a human is roughly comparable to perhaps 70 million years in the lifespan of a star.

    So when someone says "soon" in reference to a prediction of when some stellar event is going to occur, it's likely you'll have to scale up the term by roughly the same amount. "Soon" to a human generally means within/around a day or so, so scaled up to stellar times, that would be within/around 200,000 years.

    I expect that by the time this supernova happens, humans will either be unbelievably technologically advanced, or they'll be extinct.

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  8. Re:Don't hold your breath. by Baddas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that we have observed. The key answer is, that we have observed.

    The radius of observation of these kinds of things is substantially smaller than infinite. Especially when you consider that earlier periods had a lower capability of observation.

    So, really, we're talking about a fairly finite range of space and time in which supernovas would have to occur for them to be human-observable.

  9. This supernova should be interesting by Baloo+Ursidae · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've never seen a star go supernova before. But if it's anything like my old Chevy Nova, it'll light up the night sky!

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  10. The star is 1,950 light years away? by Mantrid42 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova#Impact_of_s upernovae_on_Earth
    Speculation as to the effects of a nearby supernova on Earth often focuses on large stars, such as Betelgeuse, a red supergiant 427 light years from Earth which is a type II supernova candidate. Several prominent stars within a few hundred light years from the Sun are candidates for becoming supernovae in as little as 1000 years. Though spectacular, these "predictable" supernovae are thought to have little potential to affect Earth. Type Ia supernovae, though, are thought to be potentially the most dangerous if they occur close enough to the Earth. Because Type Ia supernovae arise from dim, common white dwarf stars, it is likely that a supernova that could affect the Earth will occur unpredictably and take place in a star system that is not well studied. One theory suggests that a Type Ia supernova would have to be closer than 1000 parsecs (3300 light years) to affect the Earth.

    Shit.

    1. Re:The star is 1,950 light years away? by KylePetty · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Before everyone goes nuts saying our goose is cooked. It appears that not all sources agree as to the distance of this star. While some sources claim the star is 1,950 light years away, others claim it is as much as 5,000 light years away. http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060722/fob8. asp On referring to RS Ophiuchi, ScienceNews states: "That finding could have two interpretations, suggests the report's coauthor Richard Barry of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. If the star system resides at about 5,000 light-years from Earth, then the emissions reflect a mysterious, dense reservoir of material surrounding the two stars. If the system lies at only about one-third that distance, then the emission may for the first time be revealing a short-lived epoch during which the white dwarf, soon after its outburst, becomes as bloated as its red giant partner." Sites like Space.com claim it is 5,000 light years away, while Wiki has it pegged at 1,950. Meanwhile, the Harvard Gazette reports that: "When do scientists think the Ophiuchi supernova will rock the universe? Of course, no one knows enough about what goes on out there to say. But the best guess is it will take thousands of years for the final bit of gas to accumulate and blow the white dwarf away. Meanwhile, these reports should stimulate many more astronomers to focus their attention on the constellation Ophiuchi." So... I think it's a bit premature to claim we are doomed.

  11. Re:CNN Story is different... by Andy+Gardner · · Score: 4, Funny
    This would be a SUPERNOVA, when the white dwarf within the binary system actually explodes from within.

    So that would be like eating a vindaloo and lighting farts.

  12. Re:CNN Story is different... by Phanatic1a · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nonono.

    That's a nova. You've got a white dwarf, with a red giant companion star. Gas flows from the red giant to the white dwarf, accumulating there. Eventually enough builds up for fusion to begin in that accreted matter, and that causes a great increase in luminosity which we call a nova.

    But that accreted mass doesn't disappear. Sure, some of it gets blown out into space, but the 'ash' of the fusion 'burn' accumulates with each cycle. Eventually, enough mass accumulates that the white dwarf star, in which fusion reactions have essentially stopped, becomes massive enough to start fusing the carbon that was created back when it was still on the main sequence.

    So you have a sudden wave of carbon fusion that occurs everywhere throughout the star, causing an enormous increase in luminosity and also blowing the star apart. This is, not surprising, referred to as a 'carbon detonation' supernova, or Type 1a supernova, which is what the article was talking about. This thing's right under the critical mass at which that'll happen, so a bit more accumulation of stellar matter from its companion star, and 'boom.'

  13. Range of lethality by Short+Circuit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm curious. At what range would a Type 1a supernova be lethal to life on Earth?

    As far as the size of the galaxy is concerned, 1,950 light-years is essentially in our back-yard. Keeping with scale, are we talking about a firecracker or a stick of dynamite?

    1. Re:Range of lethality by zepol · · Score: 5, Informative

      While this doesn't directly answer your question, you might find the following interesting. Steven Dutch, a professor at the University of Wisconsin at Green Bay has estimated what would happen if the sun were to go supernova. Some highlights: the radiation flux on the daylight side of the earth would be the same as if our entire nuclear arsenal were to go off once per second at a distance of one kilometer. The reflected light from the full moon would be 10,000 times brighter than the sun; Venus would shine six times as intensely as the normal sun. The earth vaporize in a matter of days.

      By the way, the sun will never become a supernova. The calculations are illustrative only.

  14. Re:Further explanation? by T.Hobbes · · Score: 4, Informative

    You are right that you can estimate stellar masses in binary systems by observing the system's orbital period. However, that is only useful for binary systems that are close enough for our telescopes to resolve (visually) the space between them. There are other, non-viusal methods that are used, but you basically have a limit on how far away a binary system can be for it to be observed in this way.

    The utility of type 1a supernovae is that they are all produced by white dwarf stars exploding. White dwarfs are roughly earth-sized stellar cores that have no thermonuclear reactions going on inisde - they are the remnants of stars between about 1 and 5 solar masses after the outer layers have been blown off.

    The imporant point is that the gravity of the stellar core's mass is not counteracted up by the pressure of the thermonuclear reactions inside. Rather, something called degenerate electron pressure holds the white dwarf up and prevents it from collapsing. Degenerate electron pressure can only counteract gravity for masses up to 1.4 solar masses, meaning that any white dwarf that somehow grows to a mass greater than 1.4 solar masses (usually by grabbing mass from a companion star), it will collapse. The collapse catastrophically increases the pressure inside the white dwarf, re-igniting nuclear fusion, and produces a sudden violent explosion.

    Because white dwarfs are all of the same mass when they explode - 1.4 solar masses (the Chandrasekhar (sp?) limit - they are all of roughly the same brightness (>10^9 times as bright as the Sun). Because of this, one only has to see a type 1a supernova to deduce from the apparent brightness the distance from earth to the explosion. If a type 1a supernova occurs inside a cluster of stars, it conveniently tells us the distance from here to that cluster of stars. Because the distances over which supernova can be observed is orders of magnitude greater than most other stellar phenomena, the are essential in determining distances to faraway objects (from 1 to 1000 megaparsecs away (1 parsec = ~3.2 light years)). Distances to other galaxies are determined this way.

    They type of supernova being observed can be determined by the specatra of light coming from it. I can't recall the distinguishing characterisitics of type 1a supernova, but suffice it to say they can be distinguished from other types of supernova.

  15. Re:It would be nice if we got one.... by niktemadur · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wikipedia lists ones occuring in our galaxy in 1006, 1054, 1181, 1572, 1604, and I remember from other sources that several were observed during Roman times.

    Isn't that typical. Before the telescope, there was a frickin' smorgasboard of supernovae at close range, then no sooner does man invent the telescope and the party's over, which draws me to the conclusion: I blame this supernovae drought on Galileo.

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