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Army to Require Trusted Platform Module in PCs

Overtone writes "Federal Computer Week is reporting that the U.S. Army will require hardware-based security via the Trusted Platform Module standard in all new PCs. They are a large enough volume buyer that this might kick start an adoption loop."

15 of 337 comments (clear)

  1. Oooh great... by masklinn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The question still remains whether the user himself can trust the trusted computing platform.

    If your government or seller or whatever doesn't trust you, doesn't even try in the least, how the hell are you supposed to trust him? The most logical path would be to fully distrust him. And therefore to distrust and refuse trusted computing platform.

    --
    "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
  2. This does not lockout Linux by DrJimbo · · Score: 5, Informative
    TFA says:
    Is TCG creating specifications for just one operating system or type of platform?
    No. Specifications are operating system agnostic. Several members have Linux-based software stacks available. In addition to our work on the PC platform, we have a specification for Trusted Servers and are working to finalize specifications for other computing devices, including peripherals, mobile devices, storage and infrastructure.

    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
    1. Re:This does not lockout Linux by SiliconEntity · · Score: 4, Informative

      It all depends on who controls the root certificates that are used by the trusted computing hardware to verify the signatures of the BIOS and of the boot image.

      I'm sorry, but you don't know how Trusted Computing works. Almost everything you have been told about it is a lie.

      There are no root certificates used by TC hardware to verify the signatures of the BIOS and the boot image.

      What happens is that the BIOS, OS loader and potentially the OS itself send information to the TPM chip about the hashes of the software that is loading. User software can then, if it chooses, query the TPM chip and get a cryptographically send message telling what these hashes are. The software can use this to report the software configuration that booted.

      The root certificates get involved because the TPM crypto key never leaves the chip. The TPM manufacturer has a root certificate which it uses to sign each TPM key. This way people can tell that a message actually comes from a valid TPM and not a fake. It prevents virtualization of TPMs. This is what allows software to report its configuration in a trustable way. It is what gives the system its name, Trusted Computing.

  3. Re:Macs only? by lukas84 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Lenovo Thinkpads and Lenovo ThinkCentres. (Select Models).

    My R51 has one.

  4. Trusted by Descalzo · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From what I understand, Trusted in this context is used as in "I entrust it with my security" rather than "I find it worthy of my trust."

    If I am hanging from a rope over a cliff, I Trust the rope. I "Entrust it with my security" whether or not I find it worthy of that trust.

    --
    I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
    1. Re:Trusted by interiot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The point is: if the computer trusts someone else more than the end-user, in a security sense, then the end-user is not in control of the security of their machine. In a corporate IT context, this is (generally) a good thing. In an individually-owned computer, this is not really a good thing.

    2. Re:Trusted by SiliconEntity · · Score: 5, Informative

      From what I understand, Trusted in this context is used as in "I entrust it with my security" rather than "I find it worthy of my trust."

      No, that's a common fallacy; in fact, it's an intentionally constructed fallacy. Trusted in this context means that you have evidence to trust that the computer will behave in a specified way, particularly from the point of view of remote access. Normally when you connect to a computer remotely you have no way of knowing what it's doing. It could be essentially running any software at all. But if you connect to a Trusted Computer, it provides cryptographic evidence about its software configuration. Knowing what software it is running gives you grounds to know how it will behave; and to trust that behavior. That is the real meaning of Trusted Computing.

  5. Trusted Computing Great for Corporate/Government by QuantumFTL · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I personally abhor the notion of Trusted Computing on my personal computer, but if you're using a computer provided to you by the government or a corporation for the express purpose of working, it's their right to control what goes on on that computer. It's possible that this will help to stem the tide of malware (at least in corporate environments) by rejecting execution privledges, and allow IT staff to better enforce policies about what can and cannot be run on their computer. It would also help stop things like the Free USB Key Attack (formerly discussed on slashdot).

    Of course, this could also make users feel like they are not trusted, and could even lead to overconfidence in the security of the system. Still I see it as a major plus, at least unless I get saddled with it at home.

  6. Does this pave the way for Apple hardware? by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 5, Interesting

    All of Apple's Intel-based Macs have a TPM module, in order to restrict Mac OS X to running on genuine Apple hardware.
    Does this decision pave the way for Apple to become a preferred supplier as shortly their entire model lineup will feature TPM modules with a relatively secure operating system?

  7. Slightly different but... by Flying+pig · · Score: 5, Insightful
    We recently visited a customer who seem to be on the verge of announcing that anybody accessing their systems with any sensitive information will be required to use e-Gap, a dongle based security system from a Microsoft subsidiary (and not to be confused, as Google does, with electronic Grant Application and Processing.) The internal IT people told us e-Gap would refuse to allow a client to connect if it did not have working anti-virus installed, and that in order to verify this, active-x objects would be downloaded to inspect the system. If I have this wrong, apologies, but I'm reporting what I was told.

    This is a worrying scenario. Apart from the minor issue that external users will not want to pay for the dongles and that the internal customer is seeing his IT bill spiral, Trusted Computing seems to be heading to a Mexican standoff situation as follows:

    Device 1: Permit me to inspect your system by downloading and running this program.
    Device 2: Only after YOU have allowed me to verify your credentials by uploading and running this program.
    Device 1: No, it is I who am deciding whether you are to be trusted!
    Device 2: No, it is I who am deciding that!
    Device 1: Anyway, my content is digitally signed by Microsoft, and you must trust it.
    Device 2: Microsoft? Not a hope in Hell. I require all downloads to be digitally signed by Steve Jobs in person with a DNA signature.

    And so on. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? And how long before an army unit gets wiped out because of a defective dongle?

    --
    Pining for the fjords
  8. Re:What's bad about it? by SiliconEntity · · Score: 4, Insightful
    TC provides a computing platform on which you can't tamper with the application software...

    That's a total lie. Almost everything in that piece of propaganda masquerading as a FAQ is a lie.

    If you want the truth about TC, try Seth Schoen of the EFF. He has a good summary in his recent blog entry:

    What the TPM does do is support remote attestation so that a computer user can tell the computer to prove to a remote party what software it is running (if the software that's running also supports being proven in a way that the remote party understands). Then the remote party can make its own decision about whether the software is good or bad, and what it wants to do about that.

    This sounds innocuous in a certain sense. We have learned to mistrust the notion of a single centralized entity that decides what we can and can't do. TCG is not that entity, and TCG is not chartering that entity; instead, we have an unlimited number of entities that potentially make their own decisions, on various scales, about what we can and can't do in particular contexts, small and large. (We don't know yet which of those entities will turn out to have enough power to set which kinds of policies, or how the network externalities will shake out. Some entities with a lot of power, like Microsoft, can try to delegate some of their power, but there are plenty of technical and business obstacles to be worked out on both sides of that sort of delegation.)

    What the TPM does do is support remote attestation so that a computer user can tell the computer to prove to a remote party what software it is running (if the software that's running also supports being proven in a way that the remote party understands). Then the remote party can make its own decision about whether the software is good or bad, and what it wants to do about that. The user could also choose not to offer any proof at all; however, although the user has the right to remain silent, the user's silence can and will be used against her. Not offering proof is, of necessity, the functional equivalent of offering proof of the most unacceptable and contrary-to-policy facts imaginable.

    That does offer an avenue for a lot of control over you via your computer -- if someone else controls a resource that you need, there is a prospect of conditioning your access to that resource upon the provision of proof that you're running software that the resource controller considers "good". Not TCG, but the individual entities that you deal with: a bank, an entertainment company, an employer, an ISP. Furthermore, each of them could have its own independent definition of what "good" means, because there is no central signing or certifying authority. It is logically quite possible that one entity might refuse to talk to you if you're running configuration A instead of B, whereas another entity would refuse to talk to you if you're running B instead of A. (This is trivially true if each entity gave you a bootable CD and said "you can only communicate with us while you're running from our CD" -- with a TPM and the appropriate software, they can actually tell, and you probably can't fool them.)

    The ISP scenario is the point at which the most pervasive possible control could be exercised. TCG has already developed a specification called Trusted Network Connect which is based on the idea that you can be forbidden to connect to a network unless you're running a software configuration that the nework operator approves. This is designed for use in corporations, most of which are accustomed to having a high (but imperfect) degree of control over the software running on their employees' PCs. Of course, the technology is more general, and, as TCG told me, there is nothing to stop it from being used by the People's Republic of China, or by a commercial ISP.

    Imposing this requirement on a general population has a very high cost; for one thing, it mea

  9. Re:Two sides by segedunum · · Score: 4, Informative

    BZZZT wrong... with a Linux based software stack, you should be able to sign your own code and thus ensure only code you've signed and code signed by others YOU trust can be run...

    Signing your own code is not what he's talking about. Signed, and encrypted, code downloaded to run on your machine from elsewhere and how it is used is totally at the mercy of what vendors stipulate can be done with it. If they want an effective way of timebombing software because you haven't paid up then they have the framework to do that. If they want to break data protection laws and start communicating usage statistics and other sordid details, encrypted and safe from prying eyes, then they now have a means for doing that. It also means that it is almost certainly going to be nigh on impossible to switch to a competing vendor's products.

    Some people seemingly have no idea what the trust in Trusted Computing actually means. What it means is that external people and organisations, particularly software vendors, content companies etc. have a way for them to trust my computer or equipment. Whether I can trust the computer or electronic equipment I own, and what software run on there actually does, is an entirely different matter. It's a fundamental shift in the idea of how computers work that will probably end in anarchy and chaos.

    http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

  10. just in case... by joe+155 · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...you're interested I read a rather interesting article about trusted computing the other day ( http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html ). He makes some good points.

    --
    *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
  11. Ouch by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Ouch... your bitterness is truly mighty.

    You're quite right of course. If the "resistance" in Iraq confined its attacks to America soldiers, they would be freedom fighters. In reality, attacks on American troops are rare. They mostly target other Iraqis who simply aren't the "right" type of Muslim. That barely even qualifies as terrorism; it's more along the lines of a slow, decentralized holocaust.

    Imagine if the French resistance in WW2 had schismed into seperate Catholic and Protestant factions, and they'd spent all their time killing each other instead of collecting useful intelligence for the Allies. The people of Yugoslavia put aside enormous cultural difference, ceased all internal violence, and totally unified to form the largest and strongest resistance army that there has even been -- and ousted the Nazis themselves. Tito and company -- probably the best example of freedom fighters since the American war of independence. By way of contrast, consider China during WW2. If the Chinese had cooperated, Japan would have never been able to successfully invade let alone retain control once they were in. Chinese resistance failed because imperialists and Maoists were never able to put their own civil war on hold (although the Maoists apparently tried several times, which part of the reason that the people supported them after the war). It is just mind boggling how far the Iraqi extremists are from being anything other than a plague upon their homeland.

  12. Microsoft has already won by mcc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This would be a really worrying thing, but the fact is TPM has already won. It won the instant that Apple adopted TPM and the communities who were publicly worrying and complaining about Palladium and Trusted Computing for all those years went suddenly silent and shrugged the instant that nebulous notions like "freedom" came into conflict with solid, purdy white plastic.

    Here is the thing: TPM's adoption was waiting not on an adoption cycle exactly, but an apathy cycle. TPM was never something that the consumer was supposed to approve of, want, or even really know was there. The adoption of TPM was mostly counting on the consumer not having any idea what they were buying, counting on the blinking 12:00 effect, counting on the idea that most consumers would not even know TPM was in their computer until the first time that they try to do something and the computer says "no".

    TPM isn't there for the consumer. It's there to protect the computer from the consumers. It's there to allow software and content vendors to trust your computer, to trust your computer to ensure it will act in their interests and not yours. These vendors are the ones that TPM is being done for the benefit of, not the consumer. This means that in order for TPM to win, it isn't necessary for the consumer to "adopt" it. All that has to happen is for the consumer to fail to actively reject it when it is quietly dropped into the hardware they were going to buy anyway.

    And that's already happening. So although the military would legitmately represent an adoption cycle-- the military, of course, has a legitimate and logical need to create networks within which the machinery is trusted and the user is absolutely not-- it doesn't really matter. The military isn't the kind of adoption TPM needs to reach enough critical mass that vendors can begin requiring it in new applications, I don't think-- it's not like military hardware is going to be used to run lots of games and DRMed consumer media, as far as I know. The worrying thing is TPM's level adoption in the consumer segment, since that's where it has potential to do actual harm. And that's already begun, and so far nothing is happening to stop it...