OSS on Windows the Next Big Thing?

Lam1969 writes "Linux geeks and Microsoft have similar interests, says Computerworld: They both are interested in seeing open-source software succeed. Linux geeks admit that the open source OS isn't necessarily a better platform for important applications, and Microsoft recognizes that many of its customers are using open-source applications, and doesn't want to alienate them." From the article: "Faced with the allure of inexpensive open-source applications among its core customer base of small to midsize businesses, Microsoft has toned down its rhetoric. 'It's a myth that open-source and Windows can't work together. Customers just aren't religious about these things,' said Ryan Gavin, a director of platform strategy for Microsoft."

Comments

MS Grasping for Straws

[eldavojohn]

OSS on Windows the Next Big Thing?

It's not the "next big thing." In fact, it's the old big thing that kept me running Windows XP on a machine at home.

So far today, I've used WinCVS, Notepad2, Firefox, PDFCreator, numerous Apache development tools and 7-zip all on Win XP. Looks like I'm well aware of the power of OSS on Windows. I'm not even talking about the tons of other apps I have on Windows that are OSS (Gimp, OpenOffice, Thunderbird, Gaim, Nvu, etc.).

If they're supporting it now, it's only because they're grasping at straws and reasons for people to continue to buy Windows instead of x86 OSX. "Look, if you buy Windows, you can go download The OpenCD and just go to town on free software." I know there's plenty of OSS going on for OSX and it's even got the bash kernel so you can compile pre-existing OSS apps that were written for it but man these Windows OSS programs are slick and super easy to install.

Saying that they're promoting it now will not make it the next big thing either. They'd have to open up some information about how to write apps on top of their OS or at least design some API's with the open source developer in mind. You know, if they made their platform a little less proprietary and gave the OSS developers a little more freedom, that would be a sign of OSS support.

Talk is cheap.

Perhaps we'll start to see some adolescent tendencies take hold in the open source community? Maybe the only reason OSS has been developed for Windows was to slap William Gates in the face? If so, it's now helping Microsoft and at least a few workers are promoting it.

Re:MS Grasping for Straws

[Profane MuthaFucka]

But wait, what if bash WAS a kernel? What if we re-wrote the Linux kernel in Bash? Hmmmm? Linux would run everywhere you had bash! It would be a bash kernel! Now that doesn't seem so dumb now, huh?

Re:MS Grasping for Straws

[laffer1]

Apple's graphical layer is much better than X11. Apple needs an advantage. I'm sure apple could make x11 work even better with the gui as they did with A/UX. If you read up on it, it allowed you to run unix apps by double clicking in the gui and classic apps. Apple's x11 implementation is still fairly good, but a bit of a hassle to start some apps.

Linux people want native stuff too. Not only do they want linux ports of software, but some people even rewrite apps so that they integrate with gnome or KDE better. xine/gxine for instance. In fact, most of the extra open source software out there is just duplicates of what we already had. Aside from one gnu app, I don't know of a replacement for say quicken. I don't see lots of open source games. (this argument is starting to become untrue.. in time.)

Making a native port of an open source program for Windows is a lot of work too. What is the difference?

OSX has quite a bit of open source software for it. Aside from obvious things like bash, tcsh, vim, xorg, apache httpd, php, perl, there are also things that don't come with it!

Apple can never win. Its either criticism for using open source or now they don't have enough. If they had used x11 for everything it would be "why not use linux instead of the copy". Nothing is stopping you from using "Mac OS" with x11... its called gnustep + windowmaker. Try it sometime. Its only about a decade out of date.. but its there. (pronounced: nextstep)

Linux users, do me a favor. Only speak of positives of your OS of choice. Don't sit there and trash every other OS out there. End users don't like "Windows is shitty" as a reason to switch. Why? Most of them think Windows is good enough. That's why they have 90% marketshare. Convince people Linux has new exciting features they can't live without. Play the game the way apple and microsoft do. The real reason you don't do that is because linux doesn't have much to offer over any other OS. Sure there are isolated cases but on a desktop there isn't a single reason to switch for most people. This holds true with mac os, bsd, and other systems as well. In the case of mac os, apple has iApps which appeal to a few people. That's why their marketshare is going up. They still don't have a silver bullet to get windows users to switch. Listen to what people say about mac os! Most complaints that are rational typically mention games. Does linux have lots of game ports? No. (work on that) Give and take constructive criticism. Improve the software. Work with others.

My personal vision is that someday operating systems will be free that work for everyone. I want us to move beyond 100 different choices and get to a few good ones that the poor and rich can use together. Most people I know that have heard of linux think it costs money. Why? They goto best buy and see "linux" for 80 dollars. The windows upgrade is 99 right next to it. What does that tell them? Then they go down the next isle and see box after box of window software. They think.. gee i can't get any software for this "linux" thing. They also may think wow.. nothing for macs either. I guess I have to use windows.

In order to resolve these problems, someone needs to put Linux cds at stores like AOL does. Free disks.. ubuntu or whatever needs to do this. Next, distros need to advertise that the box contains a browser, word processor, and anything else they may want. Perhaps an open source games collection might help too. Remember how you picked your first pc when you were clueless. In my case, I couldn't afford a mac so i got a packard bell because it had more games and other software.

Re:MS Grasping for Straws

[Quarters]

And there's nothing OSS unfriendly about the Windows APIs. The APIs I have access to and documentation for in VisualStudio work equally well regardless of whether or not I create a proprietary or open application.

Re:MS Grasping for Straws

[spatley]

Yes, but you have VisualStudio. That investment is a significant barrier to many...
No you don't, M$ does give away Visual Studio tools in fully functional and free Express versions like C# Express

Granted, that would not help you with connecting VB6 access applications to mySql ODBC source, but that kind of interoperability is a tall order on any platform.

Who would have thought

[0racle]

People would use commercial closed source software on Linux and Free OSS on Windows. I mean, wow. There really are people that will choose to use the best tool for the job.

I'm shocked. SHOCKED!

Heresy!

[Hikaru79]

Linux geeks admit that the open source OS isn't necessarily a better platform for important applications

Okay, that's it. Turn your card in at the door. We never want to see you again.

Free Software jihad

[ettlz]

'It's a myth that open-source and Windows can't work together. Customers just aren't religious about these things,' said Ryan Gavin, a director of platform strategy for Microsoft."

Infidels!

Smells Like Astroturf

[telbij]

On the one hand, it's good for clueless IT managers to know they can run OSS on Windows, on the other hand it's been that way forever and anyone who didn't know you could run Apache on Windows shouldn't be managing the web server.

What the article completely ignores is why geeks prefer Linux. It's not hard to understand. When you're setting up infrastructure, you want to plan for the long term. If you go with Microsoft there's really no telling what's in the pipeline--their whole marketing strategy is based on overpromising which renders their roadmaps useless. Linux and open source app development is more predictable. Even though Microsoft can push stuff out faster, everyone knows the ultimate goal is profits. That means they'll inevitably change things and add dubious features just to force upgrades. On the other hand open-source applications exist primarily to solve specific problems.

There are a ton of short-term reasons to go with Microsoft:

• 
         
• It does what you need now.
• 
         
• Your staff knows it.
• 
         
• You've already invested in it.
• 
         
• Support comes with it.
• 
         
• Your boss has the full-color brochure
• 
         
• It's 'people-ready'

On the other hand, long-term all these reasons evaporate. Open source projects can fall into dis-repair too, but at least you know a project isn't going to be scrapped because it's not driving upgrades anymore.

Windows needs better acronyms

[RingDev]

Windows, IIS, MySQL, PHP - WIMP

-Rick

Re:Windows needs better acronyms

[CableModemSniper]

PHP IIS SQL Server ?

The Challenge For OSS On Windows

[WombatControl]

Windows + OSS is a good combination. The more people use OSS applications, the less tied they are to Microsoft and proprietary data formats. Advocates of OSS need to realize that many people will never switch their operating system to Linux or even OS X, and so trying to push Linux will meet much more resistance than saying "here, just install this application that's free and doesn't require you to change everything about how you use your computer."

The big challenge is making OSS apps better than their commercial counterparts. Some get this right - Audacity is a great app for sound editing that combines a relatively friendly UI with solid features. 7Zip is just as easy as WinZIP and less intrusive. But not all of them do - OpenOffice is great, but it's much slower than MS Office. Many OSS projects are much slower than normal Windows programs, and use toolkits like GTK which are nice for cross-platform development but look like canned ass on Windows. (And that's coming from someone who uses GTK all the time.)

Firefox got the balance of features and UI right - and that's why millions of people have Firefox as their first foray into the world of open source. The more people who see open source as a viable alternative, the more tractions it will get, and the more viable it will be for people to switch to Linux as their OS.

However, that's going to require OSS to start thinking about polish - making applications that Grandma can use. It's not impossible, but a lot of OSS projects need to concentrate on making applications that work well and look decent on Windows - even if we don't particularly care for the platform or the company that makes it.

Re:And so

[Jason Earl]

I agree. However, in this case it is Microsoft that is feeling the squeeze. In a lot of cases the Free Software that people want to run on Windows competes directly with software that Microsoft sells. Having this software available for Windows means that it is not necessary to have UNIX knowledge to deploy Free Software applications. However, once you are using Free Software applications on Windows it becomes trivial to migrate to some other platform. Not only does Free Software on Windows loosen Microsoft's grasp on customers, but it makes it much harder for Microsoft to use its market power to embrace and extend protocols.

Bingo.

[Qbertino]

It's not the "next big thing." In fact, it's the old big thing that kept me running Windows XP on a machine at home.

Bingo. Right on.
What we are seeing now is the reality that the experts saw coming 6-7 years ago is finally seeping into mainstream. Shrinkwrap software only business is over. Win2k/XP is mostly just a driver layer and gaming bios these days. The OSS vendors like Novel/SuSE/RedHat have been screwing around to much, that's what's held Linux/OSS back the last few years. Now with Canonical/Ubuntu finally getting the obsticles out of the way (zero-fuss hardware compliance) things are finally picking up speed. I've even considerd going back to Non-Apple Hardware after 3 years of OS X just because of that. I definitely see Linux Desktops become mainstream real soon now.

Re:Bingo.

[timeOday]

I'm a devoted linux user, but let me disagree with one point... "just a driver layer." IMHO, device support is THE unsolvable problem for Linux. Too many devices are a crapshoot. Unless vendors ever open-source their drivers, which hasn't happened yet, users will never be able to assume they can buy a device and it will work, with all features supported, when they take it home and plug it in to their Linux box. Scouring message boards for clues about how well something might work before buying anything is a nagging pain I've learned to live with, but I doubt everybody else will.

Apache, PHP... sure. OOo, no way

[Rob Y.]

I notice that you listed a slew of desktop apps that you run on Windows.

Interestingly, the article has PHP and Apache icons to define its category. Sure, Microsoft wants you to run your Apache and PHP applications on Windows. What choice do they have? If you're already building Apache/PHP apps, you're probably building them on Linux. Any move to Windows is a net gain for Microsoft, and a net loss for Linux.

But OOo. It'll be a cold day in Hell before Microsoft recommends that on Windows. Or Firefox, or Thunderbird or any of the other desktop apps listed here. Of course, most of them run great on Windows (in fact, often better than on Linux, but don't get me started there...), so if MS were really serious about encouraging OSS for Windows, they'd be on board with these apps too.

Anyway, if you've gotta run Windows, lots of OSS desktop apps are available, and you oughta use 'em. But, don't expect Microsoft to tell you that.