Hoboken, NJ vs. Giant Parking Robot

markwalling writes "Wired News is running a story about Hoboken, New Jersey's battles with robotic parking. A legal battle over the license had shut down the garage, essentially trapping hundreds of cars inside. Bill Coats has recommended that the parking garage be run off open source software: 'Vendees are going to become more sophisticated in the deals they enter into.' Coats even sees this as a driver of open source software. 'If you can get (open source software) you can't be shut down.' But that's harder to do in highly custom applications."

Comments

Re:NOT Thievery.

[postbigbang]

Because that's what the deal was. NOT paying is theft.

I can't tell you the number of jobs we've done where we didn't get paid. Some required litigation. Others required logic bombs. When they litigated, we've won 100% of the cases, and counterclaimed for legal fees and won 100% of those, too. I don't like litigation. It sucks. So does NOT PAYING YOUR LEGAL OBLIGATIONS.

We get paid for what we do. We get to PICK OUR OWN CHARITIES. And we do charity work, about 4% of what we do each year goes to 501c(3) and 501c(6). We picked them, and they like us. That's how it works.

Re:Thievery

[GalacticCmdr]

$5500 a month? For software to manage the garage? That's roberry, plain and simple. And not only that, but robbery of a public organization that is likely not too well funded. When it somes down to brass tacks, this $5500 fee was cooked up arbitrarily by the Robotic. That works out to $66,000 a year. They could pay their own devel to make software to keep that place running AND add new functionality as needed as long as the hardware specs are available (which you know they aren't). Considering that a standard parking lot to house as many cars would require more land and probably some staffing that get paid minimum wage, I don't think it's not cost effective to have in-house development in this case.

Actually that is not that bad at all - considering all of the costs involved in this type of application. These are not simple routines when you take into account that you are tracking re-occuring vehicles and the time they are typically added/removed so that you can least-time the largest number of vehicles. That is some major simulation time for least-time under varying changes (non-standard days, repairs, etc.).

I spent just over a year as a contractor on a team doing this sort of work for a parts warehouse in OH. They had this huge automated system of lifts and trucks that would move parts around as needs. As workers would add or remove parts they scanned in the bin they were going into or taken out from - bins could be mixed parts. In fact the stockers job was to make sure that the bins were as close to 1 bin = 1 job station as they could (but they could really put the parts anywhere they wanted).

The company that bought this thing was on a 5-year lease-to-buy for the software and control hardware. They elevators, automated carts, etc. they owned outright. Thus after 5 years the company had a single buyout cost in order to own the software outfight, but leaving the development company with a perputual licence to the code based upon the revision they bought (thus we could not go back and snag any changes they made after they bought it out - and vice versa) - it was essentially forked at that point.

It was an interesting system that actually (as a side effect) really closed down on employee theft, since the storage boxes were sealed until they were scanned by people putting in or taking out. They were also weighed before they were racked - since each rack could only hold so much. Tracking down missing parts was pretty easy since everything was logged as to who opened what boxes and the weight change. There were ways to get away with things, but it made theft a hassle and pin-pointed it to a small group of people.

Re:Except it isn't

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

So lets keep going with your analogy.

Joe rents his house. It has a garage. One day, when I'm over at Joe's new place, I leave my car in his garage for a few days. Joe says its OK. I even pay him in beers for letting me park it there. All is well.

Then Joe's landlord evicts him and changes all the locks on the doors, including the garage. Later on, I arrive at the house, only to find it locked up and my car still inside. When I ask Joe about this, he referrs me to the landlord.

So I go to the landlord, and ask to be able to retrieve my car. The landlord refuses. When pressed on this matter he goes on and on about his property rights, waving his deed to the property about in front of everyone declaring that he is under no obligation to open any door on his property for anyone. It's his door. Joe was only leasing it from him, and now that Joe's gone, he's not opening it without payment from Joe. Joe's not paying.

You can see that the landlords property rights are conflicting with my own. If he has his way, he can essentially annex my car using his property rights. I can't get my car out without breaking the law, and any court I go to will take months to reach a judgement, and will end up costing me more than the car. I'm better off paying whatever extortion the landlord demands.

Now, instead of the Landlords property rights, what we're seeing here is one companies intellectual property rights being held over the actual property rights of people whos cars are being held to ransom. Robotic Parking have stolen the cars of the people who parked in the garage and are using them to extort the city of Hoboken. If I tried this, I'd get ten, maybe fifteen years. If a software company tries it, they'll get a big fat payoff.

There is nothing those car owners can do. They have no rights whatsoever, and will not be getting their property back until two third parties agree, which may take weeks. They can't even protest. The city is too well protected. The company is too well protected. The garage design makes it impossible for them to organise and remove the cars. Robotic Parking has accomplished what the French could never dream of realising. The mob has been made impotent.