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The FSF, GPLv3 and DRM

whats-life-without-gpl writes "FSF has a thing against DRM. This article tries to explain why RMS isn't a DRM (Note that NewsForge is also owned by OSTG) fan and how GPLv3 is gearing up to protect against it. "

16 of 388 comments (clear)

  1. Of course RMS is not a DRM! by Abreu · · Score: 5, Funny

    One is a person, the other an ill conceived business plan...

    --
    No sig for the moment.
    1. Re:Of course RMS is not a DRM! by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The summary actually says he's not a "DRM fan" but it's interrupted by the awkwardly placed "potential bias" disclaimer. Editors, you can just put that at the end of the summary, no need to jam it in the middle of a sentence where it destroys the flow.

    2. Re:Of course RMS is not a DRM! by jeroendekkers · · Score: 4, Funny

      Are you sure? According to Microsoft, RMS is a DRM system.

    3. Re:Of course RMS is not a DRM! by DittoBox · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wish another stupid politcian would come up with another retarded description for something technical so all these no-so-funny anymore tubes jokes would rot in the bowels of internets history.

      Oh look, another joke that wasn't funny.

      --
      Good. Cheap. Fast. Pick Two.
  2. The problem with signing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Linus Torvalds, has a problem with this. He says that he himself signs the Linux kernel, and that that's his way of telling everyone, "You can trust this, it's from me." In an email message to the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML) on 23 April, he says that there are two types of keys: "One is an external key that is applied _to_ the kernel (OK, and outside the license), and the other one is embedding a key _into_ the kernel."

    GPLv3 says that if any GPLed software carries an embedded key, this key should me made available to the users, but it makes no demands on the first kind of key. Linus has said that he would never distribute his signing keys, but the GPLv3 does not require him to release them. The key he talks about only describe the trustworthiness of the kernel. It in no way affects the freedoms of copyleft. It's only the embedded keys, which can be used to nullify the freedoms offered by copyleft, that need to be released.

    1. Re:The problem with signing by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its not the same at all. I buy Tivo hardware. I have the right to use it as I wish, since I own the hardware. A hardware mechanism that stops it from booting if unsigned prevents me from utilizing my rights as an owner. If the code Tivo uses is GPLed I'm being denied my rights twice- not only my rights as a hardware owner, but my rights under the GPL.

      Linux signing the key is different because its unenforced. Its a way of recognizing that Linux blesses this version of the kernel, but it doesn't stop you from running any other version of the kernel.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    2. Re:The problem with signing by Great_Geek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It seems to me this loophole is already closed by (all of) the drafts of GPLv3. It does not matter which key owned by whom, the KEY TEST (sorry, can't resist) is whether a modified version will run. If TivoV3 uses Linus' signature as DRM, then TivoV3 must give the user a way to sign using Linus' key; which means TivoV3 would be stuck.

      The second draft is very explicit and well thought-out; the question is whether you agree with the intent. On the one side, RMS (and an all-star cast) with a strong philosophical position supported by well thought-out arguments. On the other hand, Linus with some spur of the moment comments opposing RMS (at least I hope Linus' comments are spur of the moment because his position is not well articulated).

    3. Re:The problem with signing by DShard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if they lease the hardware to you, they still are distributing licensed software for your use. They can't change the GPL with another licenses agreement. Anyone implementing this scheme is getting away with it do to lack of attention from users. So that ISP who has a DSL modem running linux who isn't offering you the source code is breaking contract law with their vendors, namely the copyright holders.

      It doesn't matter what manufactures want. They aren't obligated to support linux. They aren't forced to use linux in their closed embedded systems. But if they do use it, since it means less cost, easier maintenance and higher quality, they are agreeing to the contract under which that code may be distributed. In the case of Windows CE, there is a definite cost and an onerous contract you need to agree to. Linux to has a cost too. You need to offer the source to anyone you give the software to. Leased, bought or free, you still need to offer them that.

  3. Lay off the acronyms? by megaditto · · Score: 5, Funny
    The FSF, GPLv3 and DRM, WTF, STFU, and RTFM

    There, fixed it for you
    --
    Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
  4. I think... by badasscat · · Score: 4, Funny

    FSF has a thing against DRM. This article tries to explain why RMS isn't a DRM (Note that NewsForge is also owned by OSTG)

    We'd better get the CIA and FBI involved, along with the RIAA, NTSB, MPAA, ABC, CBS, CNN, AOL, MSN, and NBC. Oh, and be sure to alert the EFF and NRA while you're at it. Note that I am not affiliated with the RNC or DNC, although I am a FOB.

  5. Preaching to the choir? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hardly. Slashdot features some of the most anti-GPL trolls around =- they can put the Microsoft Marketing department to shame on occasion.

    *waves to the trolls* Hi! This is for you!

    1) The GPL is only ever a problem for you if you want to distribute someone else's work that they already let you use for free.

    2) See point 1.

    Gift horse, mouth, examination via the anus... all those are things that spring to mind when I hear complaints about how restrictive the GPL is.

  6. He is against DRM, but that's not the point by Ed+Avis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    TFA gets it wrong. Richard Stallman is opposed to DRM; look at the 'Defective By Design' real-world protests of earlier this year. But that's not the point here.

    Since the beginning the idea of free software (as rms sees it) is that if you use a program, you should have the freedom to modify it, among other freedoms. So if you have a Tivo, you should have the freedom to modify the software that runs on your Tivo. If Linux is GPLed, then it's clearly not allowed for the Tivo manufacturers to ship it with a label saying 'we forbid modifying the software'. It's also not allowed under the GPL for them to try blocking your freedom another way by withholding the source code. But under GPLv2 your freedom to change the program can still be taken away, by the manufacturer making the device only execute signed binaries (for which nobody but the manufacturer has the signing key). GPLv3 as proposed is about making sure your freedom to change the software running on your computer (or Tivo) isn't taken away like this.

    Of course anyone can write GPLed software that has DRM restrictions. But if you use it, you should have the right to modify it, and remove the DRM if you don't want DRM on your computer. That is the important point.

    Analogously: there is nothing in the GPL against charging a sum of money for the software. You can sell it for as much as you like. But if you do, the person who receives it still gets all the freedoms to use, share and change the program.

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    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  7. I fear a repeat of the Bison fiasco... by nweaver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bison (GNU's version of YACC) used to have the restriction that the output of Bison, since it was a large amount of code, was GPL. As a result, nobody used Bison except for GCC, because the liscence was untenible.

    I fear that GPLv3, by trying to force RMS's notion of "Liberty" more strongly (anti-DRM provisions, anti-closed-hardware provisions) will be a repeat: GPLv3 based software will only be used by the real FSF zealots. Everyone else will avoid it.

    Let us be thankful that Linus Torvald has more of a "tit for tat" notion rather than a liberty notion, and thus selected GPLv2 only.

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
    1. Re:I fear a repeat of the Bison fiasco... by Chops · · Score: 4, Informative
      Bison (GNU's version of YACC) used to have the restriction that the output of Bison, since it was a large amount of code, was GPL. As a result, nobody used Bison except for GCC, because the liscence was untenible.

      Correction: Bison used to have the restriction that the output of Bison was GPL, because nobody (including the FSF) had noticed that that was true. As soon as somebody did (in 1996 or so), the FSF put in a special exception and life went on pretty much as normal.

      I fear that GPLv3, by trying to force RMS's notion of "Liberty" more strongly (anti-DRM provisions, anti-closed-hardware provisions) will be a repeat: GPLv3 based software will only be used by the real FSF zealots. Everyone else will avoid it.

      Yes, the popularity of Bison has certainly suffered a staggering defeat; the Debian popularity contest, to pick a random example, shows it slightly less popular than X Windows, but slightly more popular than the ftp client. Doubtless we should heed your example and run screaming from the GPLv3 lest we, like it, and like Bison, become...

      (shudder)

      unpopular.

      Nice use of the word "zealot" to describe harmless nerds who like to share their software, also.
  8. Re:What's wrong with TiVo? by Bryansix · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Because if you RTFA you will see that TiVo makes it impossible to run modified code on it's hardware which effectively makes the source code useless to anybody.

  9. Re:What's wrong with TiVo? by MojoRilla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The irony here is that by requiring signed binaries, TiVO is both restricting and protecting users.

    Sure, by requiring signed binaries, you are restricted to run code only from TiVO. This restricts what users can do with their own hardware.

    At the same time, since these devices are now on networks, there is a real possibility of them getting hacked. If TiVO ran untrusted binaries, this probably would have already happened. Of course, this happens now with Series 1 TiVO's, but you can't put them on the net without hacking, and if you are smart enough to do that, you probably have a firewall. So in some ways TiVO is doing a good thing by only running trusted code.

    It is an interesting tradeoff.