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Google Brazil Pressured to Give Up Names
Kordau writes "Google Brazil is under pressure to release user info from Orkut, relating to a child porn investigation by the Brazilian government. Google Brazil maintains that the info officials want is held on US servers and if they want the info, they should talk to Google USA."
There is a much better reuters article here - I suggest you read that rather than the linked article.
The first four paragraphs of the article contain the story (not too much there) - the rest is fluff - and inaccurate fluff at that - I'm going to go completely OT to look at some of the absurdities it contains:
The Brazilian case highlights an issue that has been brewing for sometime over the information that search engine and other internet companies keep on their databases about their users.
No, it doesn't highlight that - the cases are not similar in any form, other than both involving large internet companies
The recent blunder made by AOL in which the internet company erroneously published 20 million search requests....
Erroneously? AOL deliberately published the search requests.
Early this year, Google successfully defended a subpoena from the US Department of Justice to hand over its data in another child porn investigation case.
Calling that a "Child porn investigation case" is one of the most misleading statements I've ever heard. It was a "porn on the 'net fishing expedition."
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I think they should have to cough it up, if they want to do business in brazil.
in the US, a us branch of a large company gets slammed with multiple subpeonas and searches and requests for eveything the DA can arrange to harrass the US branch (and ultimately the parent company) of a multinational when they want data held outside the country.. and in some cases, it's justified and the only leverage for a necassary investigation.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
... they'll be hurting Brazil a lot more than they'll be hurting Google.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Don't store the data in the first place.
"I don't need drugs to enjoy this, just to enhance it" - Otto
Orkut is the most used and popular social networking site in my home country (Brazil), and its popularity can't be explained with words or analogies. (But I will try anyway ;) )
Not having an Orkut account there (among teenagers and young adults from the middle/upper class) is something like not having an IM account or a cellphone, there are more than 5 Million users only from Brasil there, popular enough to force Google to provide a Brazilian Portuguese translation of the site, and to make Google to open a subsidiary there, to take advantage of this unexpected success.
The downside of the site is that brazilian people are very open and trusting, and the "invite-only" aspect of the site incentived from the very beggining the users to put their real data there, like friends, habits, pictures, etc (something similar to MySpace in the U.S.), and that attracted all kind of problems concerning to racism, gang rivaltry and child harassment. Not that it wouldn't happen in the real world anyway (Brasil has a lot of problems), it only moved to a different scenario, the internet.
As it is based on the concept "Communities" (similar to groups on yahoo groups), a lot of groups with dubious/illegal subjects popped up, groups endorsing racism, neo-nazi propaganda, child abuse and other illegal activities, crimes were planned and the results posted and commented in some of thoses threads. When the perpetrator was stupid enough to use his real information (and believe me, it happens every once in a while, stupid punks, althought it would be a violation of their TOS not provide real information heh), the police had no problem to find the criminal and prosecute. But when they hide behind fake profiles, the police has no other option other than subpoena the information to try to find the culprit.
Don't let the hype make you think this is another case of a country trying to "think of the children", Orkut has became a place where crime (or apology to crime, as it is also illegal in Brasil) has became a major problem and police and the justice system are having to deal with it adequatedly. (For the ones who didn't got it, I'm brazilian and English is not my first language, so sorry for any eventual mistake)
Since the data on the Google platform is mirrored around the globe for performance reasons, I'm not so sure Google is telling the truth here. I'm pretty sure the regular Google web index is mirrored in some Brazil data centre, and with Orkut having its major market share there too, I would assume that this data that is requested is already there, too.
Orkut was amazing... for about two weeks. I loved it. Our entire friend group jumped in, started making communities, and generally became very active. There was lots of discussion, and everyone was very happy with it.
;^)
Then, the Brazilians came.
My inbox slowly flooded with Portugese spam, mostly asking to be my friend. All of the communities I frequented filled with Portugese spam, mostly asking me to join other communities. They ignored the "language" preferences on communitues and overran practically every non-Portugese group. They constantly spammed one another. Many times, it was just two people having a private conversation with one another, but for whatever godforsaken reason sending this conversation to EVERYONE ON THEIR FRIEND LIST AND EVERYONE ON ALL OF THEIR FRIENDS' FRIEND LISTS!
They completely took Orkut over in the space of a month. It was impossible to use the service if you didn't speak Portugese. They'd email me constantly asking me to join their friend lists and communities. It got so bad I had to remove all of my contact information from the site.
It's not that they used their native language. I'm cool with that. You're free on the Internet to speak whatever language you want. The problem was they ignored and trampled everyone else, filling English-only boards and spamming constantly.
That's my Orkut story. Seeing it in the news again reminded me of the potential, and of how annoying Brazilians can be online
I wonder if anyone outside of Brazil even uses Orkut anymore.
GeekNights!
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What happens the next time they want the same info for some other reason? Start off playing the "think of the children" card, and things will be much easier when a foreign power wants the info for a person who is wanted for being suspected of a lesser crime, for criticising their government on the Internet, or for being someone who a corrupt official doesn't like.
Please note I have no idea what the Brazilian government is like, and the above examples may be off base for them (at least presently,) so this isn't meant to be a dig at the Brazilian administration. My point is, there are now and will always be governments out there who would really enjoy the chance to extract info on certain people through nervous US-based Internet companies.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Calling that a "Child porn investigation case" is one of the most misleading statements I've ever heard. It was a "porn on the 'net fishing expedition."
Ok, can you elaborate on that? Normally, the cases where the prosecutors ask Google for Orkut user info normally involve child porn or drug distribution, and at least one case involved "virginity auctions" of ten-year-olds.
FAQ: What does the Google subpoena mean? The GP is right--the DOJ was fishing, and expected search engines to assist in their witchhunt to support their tenous position.
People on Google Brasil have access to the data just like people from the Google US.
That doesn't mean that they have the right, or can be compelled, to divulge that information.
And even if nobody in Google Brasil has access to such data, they can ask Google US for the data.
Which is what was suggested that they do.
For those playing at home: we just learned why Google is hesitant to build data centers in countries that have weaker protection for freedomes than does the US.
--
$tar -xvf
Right, that was the case where the Admin. wanted Google to provide them with data they could mine to determine just how much adult porn was on the net that minors could hypothetically gain access to, in order to justify passing net-porn (NOT kiddie porn) legislation in the name of "protecting the children".
That's why Google was able to succesfully refuse the subpoena, because it had fuck-all to do with actual justice.
The enemies of Democracy are
In Brazil we don't have a president that does illegal wiretaps and even admits that publicly nor companies disclosing personal information about without permission nor Guantanamo, so I feel my freedoms are better respected here than in the USA.
Nor do we. We have an interpretation by the Supreme Court that guarantees privacy. One that may change over time (and already has begun to, in some cases).
This is exactly the tactic used by so many in power to get their foot in the door of eliminating privacy: Choose an issue that causes anyone who disagrees to look like a criminal, and get people to voluntarily give up their freedoms and privacy. Now that you have a precedent set for getting access to that information, you can do it for basically any reason - and abuse of power is just a step away.
I don't trust anyone enough to give them that kind of power in the first place.
There's a saying, and I will paraphrase because I don't remember the exact words..
"I would rather one guilty man remain free than compromise the freedoms of a thousand."
See, that's what so few people understand - the price of freedom is eternal vigilance (Thomas Jefferson). What this means is that freedom is actually an incredibly difficult social system to maintain, and still retain justice and order. But it is that struggle, that effort, that makes the ends so worthwhile - it is the very definition of honor and integrity.
And that is why so many people find freedom so frustrating [read: people we elect to leadership]... they know they don't deserve it.
We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
Pedophiles and racists are chatting online. Read my lips. Big Fucking Deal. In a free society, people should be entitled both to their views, and to discuss those views with like minded individuals. The majority of society happens to find these views highly offensive. Tough Shit. Liberty isn't as selective as most mobs. I refuse to sacrafice society on the altar of public outrage because a few sickos are typing objectionable content. "Apology to crime". What kind of a fucking country is Brazil anyway!?
To those who would cry; "Oh but these groups are inherantly evil and morally wrong!", let me tell you something about "inherant" evil and morality. There are countries in the world where clitorectomies are not only considered legal, but morally correct. In fact, a grown woman with a clitoris is considered inherantly immoral. You might scoff at the notions of "primitive" societies, but let it first be noted that the US has highest circumcision rate in the developed world. You'll find plenty of people with "inherantly's" on both sides of that debate.
Morals change. Oh boy do they change. Racism, pedophilia, facism were once not only legal, but moral as well. They were regarded as virtues in many societies at one point in time or another. You want the sad truth. Morals change with the tides. I'll trust in what's legal long before I trust in what's "moral".
Left to the media and the mob, our society would embrace old status quos just as quickly as it would condenm them. Right now the media is making money from outrage against child porn. Give it a few decades and they'll be calling for "tweenage" weddings to be legalised, or for segregation to be reestablished. Will you want to listen to them then? Do you think the legligatures and companies should be so quick to kow-tow?
So fuck moral outrage. It's like a fashion fad. Google knows this. They respect peoples rights, even if they abhor their actions. And so should everyone. If you don't like it, then move to a totalitarian state. Or Brazil, where my above "apology to crime" is in fact illegal.
May the Maths Be with you!