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HD Should Be Wired, For Now

AcidAUS writes "Current wireless networking standards aren't fit for streaming high-definition (HD) content between a media centre PC and multiple extender devices, according to Intel and Microsoft." From the article: "'You've also got to remember though that wired connectivity is a lot more efficient than when you start putting it [HD content] over wireless,' said O'Shea, adding that the real-world bandwidth of 802.11g would 'probably top out around 22Mbps'. Intel's Gurgen added that in addition to efficiency differences, one must also consider other network traffic when weighing up a move to wireless. 'Remember that at that one time when you're streaming content it's probably not the only thing that's happening. You could be sending e-mails, you could be downloading some sort of update,' said Gurgen. Both O'Shea and Gurgen declined to comment on whether or not the upcoming 802.11n Wi-Fi standard would make wireless streaming of HD content throughout the home viable."

16 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. EM Pollution by saskboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Another benefit in going with wires, is that you could potentially power some devices with Power over Ethernet, right?

    And there's less interference for everything else wireless we'll want to run. And less EM radiation in the neighbourhood could have health benefits we can't quantify yet.

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  2. What a load of crap... by dmayle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in France, where I have Free as an ISP. The ADSL service is 24Mbps and comes with an ADSL Wifi-MIMO equipped modem (built-in 5 port switch as well), and a Wifi "Television box", that streams MP4-Encrypted HD content over the Wifi without problems. And the content is drop-dead beautiful. In addition, I can receive a second HD stream to my computer while one is playing on the TV, though my Athlon 64 3000+ sometimes struggles with the HD content...

    (For those that want to be jealous, I pay 29.99 for this service, which includes a fixed IP, 100 Channels of mixed HDTV and standard digital TV, and unlimited calling to everywhere in 40 some countries, including the US.)

    1. Re:What a load of crap... by Lehk228 · · Score: 2, Funny

      i am going to invest in french lessons

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    2. Re:What a load of crap... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just out of curiosity (and yes, I am very jealous), do you have any idea what the bit rate is of those MPEG-4 HD streams?

      It would be interesting to see how many the WL network would be capable of handling at once.

      I'm not sure how many video streams the network has to be able to carry for people to consider it practical. Obviously, if the network can handle one stream, it's not going to work well for most households, who have more than one TV. And when you get into TIVO-type DVR boxes, then you might need more than one stream per viewing device, if your DVR boxes have multiple "tuners"...the number of simultaneous streams could get pretty large quickly, I think. All depends on your viewing habits, I guess.

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    3. Re:What a load of crap... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah but I have cable TV with HBO and high speed internet for about $130 a month combined, no HD content included. No phone service but that's only an additional $50 a month with $.10 a minute long distance, non US is of course is more. It may not be as good in the US but at least it costs more!

    4. Re:What a load of crap... by julesh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect your video is rather more highly compressed than HD-DVD quality videos will be. 1920x1080p has ten times as many pixels per frame as standard DVD (720x576i) which is usually encoded at around the 9Mb/s range. The encoding of HD-DVD is better, and higher resolutions normally compress slightly better than lower ones, so I wouldn't expect to have to use 90Mb/s to reach the same quality levels... but I'd estimate 30Mb/s is necessary[1]. Sure, you can drop that to 15Mb/s for less quality loss than you get dropping DVD to 4.5Mb/s, which isn't startlingly bad. I regularly take my home-prepared DVDs lower than that, in fact. But the fact is that there is a quality loss for doing it.

      [1] - it seems that the designers of HD-DVD probably agree with this estimate: the capacity of HD-DVD is 30Gb, compared with the 9Gb capacity of DVD, so if they wanted it to support the same length video of DVD just at a higher resolution, this is what they'd have been aiming for. Blu-ray is, of course, larger still. HD-DVD is designed to cope with a maximum bitrate of 36.55Mb/s; blu-ray, again, is designed for a higher bitrate.

    5. Re:What a load of crap... by alexhs · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your parent post lacked that detail, but Freebox uses MiMo technology, an implementation of draft 802.11n. So it has more bandwith that regular 802.11g.
      AFAIK they're also using MPEG4, which is more space efficient than MPEG2 (and I get a little less than 4Mb/s for non HDTV streams - currently no idea for HDTV streams, I lack an HDMI wire)

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    6. Re:What a load of crap... by Gobelet · · Score: 4, Informative

      In France, but in Europe globally, transmission of HDTV is made in H.264. And it's mandatory. So Free is streaming MPEG-4 HDTV content over Wi-Fi, at something like 5 or 6 Mbps. And the quality is just... wow.

    7. Re:What a load of crap... by Fred_A · · Score: 2, Informative

      I use Free as an ISP too (although I have the previous generation of their Freebox modem which is just a single box). FWIW though, the HD TV content is roughly of DVD resolution. You can play it either through your TV or with VLC (or both). So it's not TVHD in the usual commercial sense although it's much better than "regular" PAL/SECAM TV. And the compression quality is quite good.

      Oh and the "modem" actually is a little Linux embedded computer. :)

      The way the local market works is that Free often is the one that innovates with the other ISPs quickly offering similar packages. In the end everybody wins I guess. So ADSL 2+ broadband is roughly 30€ whatever your ISP is. Including TV and international phone.

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    8. Re:What a load of crap... by jambarama · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Parent poster said he/she got HD. They didn't say 1080p, 720p still counts as HD. 720X1280 really does look pretty good, and it is about half the bitrate of 1080p. I know 1080p is the holy grail (currently) of an HD system, but 720 will stream across a 802.11g network.

      Another option, 1080i, uses less bandwidth without a huge quality loss. 1080i is 1080p interpolated: basically even rows refresh, then odd rows, alternating. This way you only have to send about half the signal and the quality is pretty close to as good.

      So again, if you use a good codec, and use 1080i or 720p, you can get pretty good HD for under 20Mb/s. Of course when the 802.11n standard comes out (if ever), aside from the increased reach, it is supposed to offer roughly 10x the bandwidth currently offered by 802.11g.

  3. Any chance... by corychristison · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... of your ISP expanding over to North America? -- especially in Saskatchewan, Canada. Our current offerings are very limited.

    Pretty please?

  4. Sigh by tigersha · · Score: 2, Funny

    The really heartbreaking thing is that I live 5 km from the French border...

    So near and yet so far.

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  5. H.264 by porneL · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can stream full HD content wirelessly - if it's compressed.

    1. Re:H.264 by Controlio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well no one can stream uncompressed HD... it's 1.5G/sec. And it's a world of difference from what you see at home. You'd swear you were staring out a window.

      It amazes me how much compression is involved. Even the transmission lines from the TV truck to the station compress the signal down to 270M/sec. Bounce it off a few satellites, hand it over to your cable provider, and you're staring at about 11M/sec or less by the time it gets to your house.

      So by the time you're staring at that "beautiful" signal on your new $6,000 HDTV... think about the fact that the quality you're actually seeing is 1% of the original signal.

  6. Re:welcome to... by megaditto · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well, 100 baseT is inadequate for streaming good video.

    Assume no compression (i.e. good video) 800x600 pixels, 32 bits/pxl, 30 fps

    Moving that data alone requires 500 Mbps, not counting protocol overhead. Of course, with compression you can easily cut that down by a factor of 10, but that will be lossy.

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  7. Re:welcome to... by kryptkpr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Video is due to it's very nature very redunant. The majority of the content which was in frame X is still there in frame X+1 and frame X+2, it may have just moved a little. Good compression (MPEG4 at a high data rate) simply takes advantage of this, and will not be noticable to the viewer while still reducing the data rate 3-5x.

    Now as to your assumptions. First, why 32bpp? You don't broadcast an alpha channel. 24bpp is enough for RGB, and 16bpp is enough for YCbCr (using 422 sampling, which is fine for video but not so great for computer images).

    Second, 800x600 isn't HD. The minimum resolution to be called HD is 720p, which is 1280x720 (roughly a 1 megapixel image). Some folks will try to pass 480p off as HD, but it's not, it's ED.

    So taking a typical movie in HD, that's 1280 * 720 * 16 bpp * 30 fps * 1/4 (compression gains) = 110 Mbps. Still a little too much for fast ethernet, but GigE could support several such streams without a problem.

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