Slashdot Mirror


Heinlein's Last Novel Coming in September

Frightened_Turtle writes "Robert Heinlein's last novel, Variable Star , will be released in September. Completed by Spider Robinson at the behest of Heinlein's estate, the novel is based on the notes and outline created by Heinlein for the novel over 50 years ago. It was set aside and forgotten when Heinlein went to work on other projects. The story follows the life of Joel Johnston who — after having a fallout with his girlfriend and going on a bender — wakes up on a starship bound for the stars. Spider Robinson has done an excellent job maintaining Heinlein's style and flow throughout the novel. Want to check out the story for yourself? You can download the first eight chapters online from the 'Excerpts' link on the site as they are released over the next few weeks."

56 of 276 comments (clear)

  1. Scared, I am... by mythosaz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While I haven't had the chance (obviously) to go read the first eight chapters of the book, these always feel to me like I'm going to end up with something like the recent "Tom Clancy" books -- some sort of author-inspired but mostly-ghost-written things that, despite being written in the STYLE of the autor, will just fall short.

    (Insert gratuitous joke about Tupac and Biggie albums here...)

    1. Re:Scared, I am... by Anubis350 · · Score: 2, Informative

      But unlike most ghost written crap, this is being finished by a very good author (and alumnus from my college :-p). I think Robinson's up to it, should be a good read (though it might contain some very bad puns)

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    2. Re:Scared, I am... by L7_ · · Score: 2, Informative

      same with the new Dune book... Hunters of Dune.

      We'll see if the authors can hold true to the Frank Herbert's legacy.

    3. Re:Scared, I am... by ajs · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Very good authors have their own names on their books, not a famous corpse's.

      No, very good authors have their own names on their books, though in some cases, a corpse's name may also grace the cover when said corpse worked on the book. Observe:

      http://variablestarbook.com/images/variable-star.j pg

      And if you're really digging into the history, such VGAs have existed before. Arthur C. Clarke is, for example, on that list, having co-written Richter 10 with the person that he initially farmed the idea out to, but who died before completing it.

      To boot, there are many who would argue that Spider Robinson (on the merits of the books that are purely his) is a better writter than Heinlein. I'm not sure if I'm one of them or not, as I enjoy both authors for different reasons.
    4. Re:Scared, I am... by big-magic · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not quite. The recent Dune books (prequels and sequels) were written by Brian Herbert (son of Frank Herbert) using notes left by this father. They do not claim to be written by Frank Herbert. Although I have not read them, my understanding is that the Dune books written by Brian Herbert received decent reviews.

    5. Re:Scared, I am... by fumblebruschi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Especially since the reason Heinlein set aside the unfinished book and forgot about it was probably that he'd decided it wasn't any good. In the years after Hemingway died, his heirs kept publishing "new Hemingway novels" that were really just unfinished books he'd abandoned because he thought they weren't going anywhere. (The result being that future generations will think Hemingway didn't know the difference between his own good writing and his own bad writing.) In this case I can't see any grounds for optimism, since A) Heinlein abandoned the book, which suggests he didn't think much of it himself, and certainly means he never went back and edited it; and B) it's being "finished" by a guy who has shamelessly fan-wanked over Heinlein (see Robinson's embarrassingly bad article "Rah Rah R.A.H.") and who firmly believes Heinlein can do no wrong, so will probably not edit those parts of the unfinished story that need editing. Robinson is one of those people who confuse the "I like Heinlein's writing" school of being a fan with the "I embrace Heinlein as my personal savior" school. So, unfinished and probably subpar book + adoring and uncritical editor = waste of paper.

    6. Re:Scared, I am... by moggie_xev · · Score: 3, Informative

      Spider Robinson is an excelent author in his own right. I own atleast 5 of his books and he is known to be an old time Heinlein fan. He is the best choice I can think of to do the job and I suspect it will be a good book. I not sure if they have the names the right way round on the cover though :)

    7. Re:Scared, I am... by stevey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have the same fear, and by way of example I'm going to present the Dune Prequels.

      Good authors (apparently; I've not read their independant books) including the son of Frank Herbert, but the novels were just .. flat. Or outright "wrong".

      In fact it is hard to think of a good example of an estate/relative finishing off novels once the primary creator had died. The only one I can think of is Christopher Tolkien - and he faired only poorly in some areas. (Mind you the amount of papers that J.R.R Tolkien left behind I think he was damn lucky to get anything coherant out of them - so this isn't meant as a criticism of him.)

    8. Re:Scared, I am... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      FYI, Spider is as obsessive a fan of Heinlein as I have ever seen. If anyone could do this book, it would be him.

    9. Re:Scared, I am... by roystgnr · · Score: 2, Informative

      see Robinson's embarrassingly bad article "Rah Rah R.A.H."

      It's up on the web here, for anyone who really does want to see for themselves. I think "embarassingly bad" is an undeserved insult, but "shameless fan-wanking" is pretty accurate so maybe I'm just splitting hairs.

    10. Re:Scared, I am... by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Especially since the reason Heinlein set aside the unfinished book and forgot about it was probably that he'd decided it wasn't any good.

      Not necessarily. Many times, authors start in on a book, or novella, and it just doesn't feel right, still unfinished, but one doesn't have a clue what to do with it. Best thing to do then is just put it on a shelf and let it sit for a while, IMHO. Sometimes, the time helps and you look at it again fresh, and it all comes together. Other times, as you suggest, you take it off the shelf, try to complete it, and realize it was a dumb idea in the first place.

      One would hope Spider wouldn't waste his time if it were the latter.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    11. Re:Scared, I am... by fermion · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I think for the people who long for the books of the successful Heinlein, say 60's and 70', Robinson will be a good choice. He is very familiar with the works and continues to write in the relaxed, almost trivial, style of this time. This is not a bad thing, I have read the vast majority of both authors book, if not all of them, and have enjoyed them immensely.

      However, for those us who long for Heinlein's later works, I am not sure that Robinson can make these happen. These works tended to that of a extremely skillful person who no longer wrote to please anyone, and was willing to incorporate any style he thought appropriate. It was wonderful change from his kids books.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    12. Re:Scared, I am... by wytcld · · Score: 2, Informative

      Heinlein often moved notes and outlines to the back burner. Many of his strongest books, including Stranger in a Strange Land, were sitting in his files half-conceived for years before he finally wrote a finished draft and published. So when something was still in his files, it didn't always mean he thought it no good; sometimes he thought it so good that he felt himself not quite ready to do justice to it yet.

      --
      "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
    13. Re:Scared, I am... by ltbarcly · · Score: 2, Interesting

      inability to go more than a page or two without repeating a cultural reference already made twenty seven times (either in that work or earlier) or superimposing his political or computer biases - even when such references or superimpositions have nothing to do with the story at hand.

      Sounds like Heinlein to me!

      Seriously, did you ever read any of his books? TANSTAAFL and free love and cat's are good and let's have sex with our mothers by using a time machine, and then space some slavers. Next we'll talk like 30's gangsters because that's how people talk. After that we'll convince a bad guy to give up because we can prove him logically wrong. Wash, rinse, repeat for 500 pages * 20 books.

      I own every one of his books and they are all fantastic.

    14. Re:Scared, I am... by Dr.+Podkayne · · Score: 3, Informative

      Scared, be not. Variable Star rocks, and reads like a classic juvenile. In the case of "For Us, The Living" (the only other posthumous Heinlein) after a couple of rejections Heinlein took it off the market. He then mined its ideas after he learned how to write stories and plot. While ultimately the author's intention was not to have the thing circulating, since he had submitted it at some point it was deemed morally fair game for the estate to publish. With Variable Star, there was a good half chapter with characters and plot trajectory fully fleshed out and some notecards. I don't know why Heinlein didn't finish it...when I first encountered the chapter, his widow told me he'd always intended to complete it but never did. Health reasons...? Anyhow, I've been lucky enough to read the final draft of Variable Star. While there were a few moments of gears ratcheting between Heinlein style and Spider style in the second chapter, thereafter either it became indistinguishable or I was so into the story I failed to notice. My husband and I ended up trading pages until a 2AM photo finish, when we both turned to each other and did Keanu Reeves impressions. ("WHOA!") It was so great I wish I'd saved it until I was bummed out or otherwise needed a lift. Granted, I love both Heinlein and Robinson independently, and am biased. This is a great fusion, though...and I recall only one pun. I'm trying to forget details, so I can savor the hardback as the last new Heinlein I'll ever get to read.

    15. Re:Scared, I am... by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Few people know that Isaac Asimov anonymously wrote an operating system but put Linus Torvald's name on it. Wait ... wait .. where's my ritalin. I'm always getting mixed up without it.

  2. Worth Buying by neonprimetime · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Variable Star project is intended to help the Heinlein Trust continue to fund the $500,000 Heinlein Prize for commercial manned spaceflight

    It's worth buying just for that!

  3. Great! by AltGrendel · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I'm an unabashed Heinlein fan. I've read enough Spider Robinson to feel that he's up to the task.

    I'm really looking forward to this.

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

  4. Does that mean no sex scenes? by PhineusJWhoopee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Plot line over 50 years old? Does that mean no sex scenes?

    ed

    1. Re:Does that mean no sex scenes? by Escherial · · Score: 3, Funny

      But were they having sex scenes?

    2. Re:Does that mean no sex scenes? by Anonymous+Commando · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've obviously never read any Heinlein...

      --
      Corporate Jenga: You take a blockhead from the bottom and you put him on top...
    3. Re:Does that mean no sex scenes? by jesdynf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Am I the only one who read Heinlein's later novels?

      If Mr. Robinson stays "true to form", it's going to be all 12-year-olds trying to get into the grizzled old man's pants.

      Look, nobody cares about Piers Anthony, he can get away with -- with -- with whatever he wants to, twice, chocolate-covered. It always amazes me that Heinlein gets a pass on the latter end of his Future History.

      --
      Yahoo! Pipes are awesome. How awesome? http://pipes.yahoo.com/jesdynf/slashdot
    4. Re:Does that mean no sex scenes? by Moofie · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, because Heinlein never wrote about sex. Or drinking.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    5. Re:Does that mean no sex scenes? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nobody seems to get the joke, which is that Heinlein's earlier books were more-or-less sex-free, or at least keeping it to a minimum, while his later books got more and more randy and referenced group sex, underage sex, incest, and other taboos. I'm not Heinlen-ologist, but it seems the turning point was Stranger in a Strange Land, which was an excellent book. Some of the later ones seem to be more dominated by the sex themes, and very light on substance. In other words he slowly transitioned from young serious author to mature exploratory author to dirty old man.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    6. Re:Does that mean no sex scenes? by Quadraginta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Heinlein put plenty of sex into his adult novels (his teen novels are another thing). But he didn't seem to feel the need to describe it. Perhaps he felt that if you were old enough you could supply the details from your own experience, and if you were young enough, encouraging your fantasies would only distract you from the novel.

      He didn't even spend much time describing his men and women sexually. Few female characters were introduced with a description of their breasts, for example, although you might learn about their cup size by and by, somewhat incidentally. It's like the way you only learn late in the books and somewhat incidentally that Dr. Richard Ames is black and Lieutenant Rico is Hispanic.

      Indeed, I think one of the reasons Heinlein is popular among geeky types is because he emphasized the sexual attractiveness of mind, character, and accomplishment. The fastest way to a Heinlein heroine's heart was witty repartee or a devastatingly clever and insightful argument...you know, the /. ideal for comments, +5 Sexy, that kind of thing.

    7. Re:Does that mean no sex scenes? by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Indeed, I think one of the reasons Heinlein is popular among geeky types is because he emphasized the sexual attractiveness of mind, character, and accomplishment. The fastest way to a Heinlein heroine's heart was witty repartee or a devastatingly clever and insightful argument...you know, the /. ideal for comments, +5 Sexy, that kind of thing.

      Personally, across my 4+ decades spent going around the Sun - I've found that women who aren't attracted to witty repartee or a devastatingly clever and insightful arguments aren't worthing spending any time around.
    8. Re:Does that mean no sex scenes? by Venik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Speaking of Strange in a Strange Land, the original published version was some 60,000 words shorter than the manuscript. I wouldn't say that either version is dominated by sex, but sex does play a central role in the entire story.

      Sex, group sex, homosexuality, cannibalism; not to mention satirical interpretation of every major and minor religion - this book was hardly the turning point you speak of. And that's what makes it one of the best sci-fi works in literature. If there was a turning point in Heinlein's work, it must have happened before Strange in a Strange Land.

      It's difficult to call this book science-fiction. Put aside the obligatory Martians, teleportation, and hovercraft, and there is really no "science" left in Strange in a Strange Land. So what is left is the bare minimum of fiction and good two thirds of the book is taken up by Jubal Harshaw's lectures on religion, art, history, and psychology.

      Strange in a Strange Land is Heinlein's version of the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus transposed to modern time and masterfully wrapped in the shiny "sci-fi" cover. It's a brilliant philosophical and literary work in every aspect.

  5. What is coming next by UR30 · · Score: 3, Funny

    A new play by Shakespeare? Poems by Poe? Nonfiction by Carl Sagan?

    1. Re:What is coming next by OzPeter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On a similiar note, one of the few sc-fi/fantasy novels that I have kept and re-read is "The witches of Karres" by James Schmitz. Recently I found out that there was a sequel wrtten by a bunch of writers (Mercedes Lackey, Eric Flint, and Dave Freer). When I saw it on the shelves I heard warning bells going off in my head which I should have heeded. They had the same characters and a similiar plot to the first book, but managed to totally miss what made the original (IMO) a great yarn. I also remember seeing a flame war between one of the writes and someone who told them to their face that the book was crap.

      I have no idea what this Heinlein'ish book will be like as I haven't read andy of Spiders work, but I might sample the download to see if it stinks or not before I commit to giving money.

      However I fear that the download stunt is only to drum up business for a book that may not deserve to exist.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
  6. Same writing style? by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Funny

    So it will be full of gratuitous sex in every possible combination of the following?

    Hetrosexual
    Homosexual
    Incest
    Self
    2-way
    3-way
    Orgy

    And occur with in the realms of:
    This universe (now)
    This universe (time travel, forward and backward)
    Parallel universes

    Between people who are:
    Real
    Imagined
    Living
    Life-After-Death
    Multiple people sharing the same skull

    And that's just with the human characters. Heaven knows what interpsecies liasons will occur.

    Boy did I read too much Heinlein when I was young.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:Same writing style? by kalirion · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wait, are we talking about Piers Anthony now?

    2. Re:Same writing style? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nah, he's referring to what would happen if William S. Burroughs had actually written everything written by Edgar Rice Burroughs. Except he left out the drugs.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    3. Re:Same writing style? by sammy+baby · · Score: 4, Funny
      Heinlein wrote some good stories, but dude, his characters had a habit of fucking anything that moved (or were about to move, or might be moving in an overarching multiverse), and some things that didn't move. Kinda makes me glad I somehow missed his books when I was a teenager. My head probably would have spun off my neck like a top.


      Are you kidding? That's why I was thrilled to find his stuff as a teenager.
    4. Re:Same writing style? by C.+Alan · · Score: 2, Informative
      You forgot with a Cat.

      "The cat whom walked through walls"

  7. Here's hoping by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm the biggest Heinlein fan ever, but "To Sail Beyond The Sunset" left a pretty bad taste in my mouth as his last novel. Maybe this one (even though he wasn't really involved) will help me remember him more fondly. (although there's always Lazarus...)

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Here's hoping by MasterThis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's what I'm wondering -- is this the early/mid Scifi Heinlein, or the late (post "Moon is a Harsh Mistress") new age Heinlein?

  8. *sigh*... by PhineusJWhoopee · · Score: 2

    ...there were very few sex scenes in his novels prior to about 1968-ish. Then, it was like he was on literary Viagra.

    ed

    1. Re:*sigh*... by Demolition · · Score: 3, Interesting
      ...there were very few sex scenes in his novels prior to about 1968-ish.


      Probably because his editor and/or publisher objected to them. Overtly sexual passages in fiction were frowned upon in the increasingly puritanical morality of the 1950s. Even subtle hints of sexuality were banished. This was done in the name of saving our innocent virgin minds from such filthiness.

      But, then the swinging 1960s rolled around and it wasn't such a concern, anymore. That attitude prevailed until the 1980s, when Heinlein really began to cut loose. As an example, "Friday" is probably the best-known Heinlein novel from the 1980s, and it's not because it was an outstanding literary work.
  9. Re:The Heinlein Paradox... by Maelwryth · · Score: 3, Funny

    "What's the odd of someone screwing up a relationship, going on a bender, and ending up on a starship?"


    They must be fairly low. I've never ended up on a star ship.
    --
    I reserve the write to mangle english.
  10. Story outline is not enough... by aralin · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The one thing I am afraid of is that the story outline is usually just 20% of why Heinlein books were so great. He used the story and the environment it created for the characters to really present some new ideas and concepts and make the reader think about it. Heinlein books are often filled by strong ideas and concepts one appearing right after another, keeping your brain working all the time. I often found myself not remembering what the last 5 pages were about, because my mind run away with one of those ideas. He is so unlike other authors in this aspect. For most authors, the story outline would be enough for another writer to finish the book, since the main idea is usually also the only idea in the book and the rest is just sauce and random words and maybe nice story.

    So I am really sceptical this would reach the quality of other Heinlein's books.

    --
    If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
    1. Re:Story outline is not enough... by dracphelan · · Score: 2, Informative

      I completely agree with you. Some of his greatest novels dealt troubling or taboo subjects involving human nature. Some examples are: Farnham's Freehold - Racism A Stranger In A Strange Land - Religion The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress - Government Time Enough For Love - Mortality, Love The Long Patrol (may not be remembering the title right) - Duty What I have always loved most about Heinlein's work is that it was never really about the technology. It was about people and how they interact. It was about what it takes to be a human being who is worth more than the chemicals that make up the body. Even in his juvenile novels, he wrote about what it takes for a boy to be a man. The last unpublished Heinlein novel I tried to read (Requiem?) was horrible. I could see why he chose not to publish it. Hopefully, this one will be better.

  11. Let's Make this Political! by spun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Heinlein was a right wing libertarian type. Spider is a lefty hippy anarchist type. Both are great writers, but if you can't stand reading political views that don't agree with your own, I suggest staying away from one or the other.

    Just guessing, but you're a libertarian type, aren't you?

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Let's Make this Political! by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think Heinlein was a libertarian first and right-wing second. So the idea that unusual sexulal relations between consenting adults are OK is not surprising from him.
      Besides, some libertarian ideas (like personal responsibility rather than a nanny state) are often associated with "conservative", correctly or not. That may make Heinlein look more right-wing than he really was.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    2. Re:Let's Make this Political! by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anarchism comes in two basic flavors, for convenience I call them right wing and left. It all boils down to how property is treated. Libertarianism could more accurately be called propertarianism, espousing as it does very strong protection for property. Socialist anarchists (like anarcho syndicalists, for instance) believe in Proudhon's saying, "property is theft." They believe that natural resources and real property should be managed through collective, not individual ownership.

      I call Libertarians right wing because it seems as though they value property rights over human rights. Before there were fences, anyone could go anywhere and use any resource. What gives one person the right to exclude all others from using that property? Is it because they have "mingled their work" with the property? Well, what gave them the right to mingle in the first place?

      Propertarians bring up the tragedy of the commons, which is an unfair example because it compares managed private ownership with unmanaged collective ownership. A collective could excercise just as much responsibility as an individual, and it could even be done democratically.

      In contrast, protection of real property (as opposed to personal property. I do believe in that, I'm not a communist!) requires initiation of force. You want to see sophistry in action, try to get a Libertarian to define initiation of force. You'll find it boils down to "any use of force I don't like."

      Propertarians also hold the view that there is a mutual contract between property owners. You protect my right to private property, I'll protect yours. This does not address the vast majority of people who aren't a party to that contract because they own no real property. What compensation are they getting as recompense for having their rights abridged?

      As for personal responsibility, that is common sense and just as many hippy leftists believe in that as do libertarians and right wingers. The right wingers and libertarians just like to claim they have a monopoly on it.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  12. Is it just me... by Robotech_Master · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...or does this sound a lot like the premise behind the TV show Red Dwarf ?

    --
    Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
  13. Spider by KingEomer · · Score: 3, Funny

    I guess that Spider Robinson truly groks Heinlein... Has anyone checked his corpse lately?

  14. Oh no, not the hippy heinlein by VAXcat · · Score: 2, Funny

    Of the dozen or so Heinlein style writers extant today, it's a shame they picked the feckless hippy of the lot, Spider Robonson. I'd have vastly preferred one of the hard science Heinlein style writers (such as Varley, or maybe VInge) to the hippy dippy, dated, peace love dove style of Robinson, who wouldn't know real knowledge of physics if it knocked the bong out of his hand and spilled it all over his hand knotted macrame rug, inside his dome house.

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
    1. Re:Oh no, not the hippy heinlein by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Varley is a Heinlein fan but he only writes Varley books. I think its too late in his career for him to write a good Heinlein novel.

      But the title of the article is wrong. This is not Heinleins last novel, its almost his first novel. That should make it easier to write because the early Heinlein had a much more stable, better understood (stereotyped?) style. This sounds a bit like Citizen of the Galaxy or Between Planets.

  15. Post mortem releases... now required. by kinglink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First it was Douglas Adams' Salmon of Doubt, where in Douglas Adam's own words his final manuscripts were published.

    Then it was the final book of the true dune series that was originally envisioned by Frank Herbert is now published (I don't know the name but I've heard more then enough about it).

    And Now we have this.

    What is it with people who have now basically gone around and robbed the grave? I mean Douglas Adams' salmon of doubt wasn't good but it was at least his work. Frank Herbert's son basically is robbing the grave here, and of course now this person's estate is now just asking for more money. It would be one thing if the person was dying and needed the money to go to a fund to save him from some sickness or cure other people, but in the end it's really just greed. I will give props to Brian Herbert, he at least has worked in his father's universe long before the final book was released, but even then his work has been far below his father's that to see him work on his father's last manuscript must be like watching a guy who shoots paint from his butt touch up a Picasso.

    It's not that these people arn't well intentioned, they want to be loving with their work, but the fact is they will always change the work that they work on because it's the nature of the creative process.

    Every time I see a post mortem release, whether it be a play (of course the script not being good enough or not being finished at the time of his death), a movie, a Cd, or even a book, I always feel a little sick and a little disgusted at the ultimate greed of man, especially when it's one of those platnium covered memorial copies that some groups try to sell fans.

  16. Re:In this case, it may be an improvement... by murdocj · · Score: 3, Insightful
    While I really liked Heinlein's older novels, his more recent output failed to impress me. The depth and suspense were simply not there anymore, at least not in the degree I was used from Heinlein.

    I'd go even farther and say that Heinlein's last few novels were awful. As he went further along the protagonist became an older and older man who was having sex with younger and younger women. In my (humble) opinion he peaked at around "The Moon is Harsh Mistress".

    I loved Heinlein as a kid, but re-reading him as an adult, he's just too absolute, too certain... "this is the way things are, anyone who disagrees with me is a fool". If I want to see that, I can read slashdot.

  17. Just finished Heinlein's FIRST novel... by libertytrek · · Score: 2, Informative

    "For US, the Living" www.heinleinsociety.org/newsFUTL.html Very interesting, with a forward by Spider, and an afterward by Robert James. You can definitely see the seeds of many of his best works in this novel - highly recommended...

  18. Ten things I hate about publishers by tillerman35 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In no particular order (except that #1 is the one thing I hate the most):

    1. Posthumous "collaborations." I make a very small exception for Chrisopher Tolkein's scholarly works. Otherwise, it's just crap they think they can sell. Sadly, there are enough idiots buying the crap that they continue to make it.

    2. "collaborations" with elderly authors. Yah, maybe Andre Norton or Marrion Zimmer Bradley wrote part of that book. Maybe all she did was nod off during plot discussions. Honestly, it's hard to tell. Seems there are a few authors who are so crappy that they can't come up with ideas on their own.

    3. Trade paperbacks. I'd mind less if they would get together and decide on a single standard size! As an owner of thousands of books, I have a real need to keep size to a minimum. If I have to adjust my shelves to buy your book, I'm not buying your book. My "oversize" storage has gone from four or five shelves to a whole stack, and it's really pissing me off.

    4. Cover blurbs comparing every fantasy novel to Lord of the Rings. If I wanted to read another Lord of the Rings, I'd read Lord of the Rings again. Ditto for every Harry-Potter wannabe ripoff with cover blurbs claiming it's just like Harry Potter. Frankly, if I saw a book with a cover blurb that went "nothing like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Interview with the Vampire or any other commercially viable work," I'd have that thing at the register in ten seconds.

    5. Cover blurbs from authors who are too old to wipe their own asses. Maybe that drooling nod meant "Most promising young author since Harry Potter!" Or maybe it just meant "I've soiled myself and you have to take care of it." Either way, it's a crappy recommendation.

    6. Listing authors "other works" but leaving out works done with another publisher and/or distributor.

    7. Massive series based on popular movies. Just because you can hire 10,000 monkeys to write Star Wars "novels" (and I use the term with much more generosity than they are due) doesn't mean it's right to do so. When an entire 1/3 of the book store's sci-fi shelving is wasted on this kind of crap, it makes me wonder how many good new authors could have their works on that 300 linear feet of retail space.

    8. Collections of short stories, in which one is set in a universe from one of the author's popular series, marketed as a part of that series. If you're such a great author, your short stories won't need the prop. If you're not, don't bother writing them. Moron.

    9. Collections of short stories, in which one is written by the author and set in a universe from one of the author's popular series, and in which the rest are written by other (sometimes wannabe) authors. If you can't find the time to write your own stories, don't make some talentless schlob do it for you.

    10. Direct-from-publisher "signed" editions. Do they really think we're that stupid? Those signatures are about as original as a painting from the Thomas Kinkaid "gallery" next to Sears. I'm not going to pay you $10 extra so that Skippy the Intern and his sidekick Amazing Pantograph Bob can crank out ten of these at a time. Especially when you sell it in size-of-the-month-club trade paperback form.

  19. I have read the book; well an Advanced Proof. by doobie · · Score: 4, Informative

    I really really did not believe I wouldd read this book and think "wow this is a Heinlein novel." I never liked the NY Times quote "I'd nominate Spider Robison as the new Robert Heinein." quote. I did not fully believe John Varley's quote that it Robert Heinlein was at Spider Robinson's side.

    It is now obviously I was wrong; very very very very wrong. I would put more very's in but it wouldn't get to the point. Heinlein outlined the journey; Spider followed it. Only a few points disappointed me (IMO Heinlein never pun'd that much; and I didn't like reading 'googled around' 2 or 3 times).

    The following is early spoilerish material

    The book is a story of a boy, Joel, who was in love with a girl, Jinny. They complete junionr college and start planning for the future. She wants to marry him, he wants to finish college to support her. When he finally accepts that he would marry her if he can support her, she takes him to "her home". Turns out this is a hidden house buried in a glacier. The house is home to Conrad of Conrad (I don't recall this in other Heinlein novels, but from what I can gather think Harriman Enterprises, but bigger; much bigger). After meeting Conrad of Conrad and telling him where to go stick his money/fortune/plans for Joel's with Jinny, he escapes back to his apartment with the help of Jinny's little cousin Elelyn.

    After a major bender, he is reminded of a ship leaving to start a colony on a distant planet. He spends the last of his money to ge to FL and tries to get on. He's told that he's too drunk to make the decision but he could come back in a few days if he's sober and still wants to go. He of course returns and gets on the ship. This is where most of the story happens. I'm not going to get into many of the details because that would spoil the fun. There is talk of line/group marriages; there's music; there's science; there's romance and despair, and of course there's hope when all hope is lost.

    Some of you may hate me for saying this, but if Heinlein had written this book he would have had a hard time improving on what was written.

  20. A Heinlein novel I'd like to try writing by Catbeller · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In the Future History timeline, there was one unwritten novel, "The Sound of His Wings", the story of the rise of southern backwoods preacher Neremiah Scudder to the Presidency of the United States, whereupon he suspended the Constitution, declared himself dictator under God's Law and declared himself the First Prophet.

    Heinlein decided not to write the novel because he detested the bastard. But the fall of the U.S. into religious dicatorship (written in 1941!) as chronicled in "If This Goes On --" and subsequent FH stories needs to be completed, I've thought, since I first read it in 1976. Hell, it let me recognize Jerry Falwell and Robertson in 1977 in their march on Washington for what they were. Heinlein grew up in Missouri and knew what the people he came from were capable of. The story is being written every day, as preachers get special White House briefings and all personnel in the WH are expected to attend Bible class every day. Bush's core 30 percent truly believe he was selected by God (as Bush himself has stated, although more guardedly that his supporters) to convert the US to a Christian nation and prepare the way to the end of days as described by St. John of Patmos in the Book of Revelations. The US as always been primed for a religious dictatorship, and will be so even after this bunch of clowns are voted out. This tendency needs a good thrashing out in a novel.

  21. that's nothing by pyrrho · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've just finished a new chapter in the Bible by God. I worked from notes God had almost created on the 4'th day of creation but got distracted creating the slugs. It's The Book Of Slugs and goes in the Old Testament.

    I kept God's original style rather well.

    --

    -pyrrho

  22. If this goes on... by hicksw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Toward the end, RAH was so famous that nobody would edit his copy, not even correct the spelling.

    There were some good novellas lurking in his final few door-stoppers.

    And yes, I have read RAH serials in Astounding, and all the sad long stuff that came toward the end.