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Solutions to the Frustrations of Video?

Re-Torque asks: "In our organizations, interviews with perpetrators of crime (child abuse, rape, etc), and with victims, are conducted by expert interviewers and are recorded on videotape or DVD (with back ups). These recordings are legal records. They are archival records, but they are also used in the courts and in other aspects of the legal process. We have encountered problems with newer VCRs and DVD recorders. As long as the tape or DVD is played back on the same machine, there is no degradation of audio and video quality. However, when played back on any other machine, the quality of the recording is substantially degraded. We have been told that this is to frustrate illegal copying, but in our case, it frustrates the legal process. In your experience, is the problem in fact one of design of the machines or are we doing something wrong (i.e., some settings we should change before recording)? Are there any machines available that are not crippled in this way? Or are there other strategies we might employ to resolve this problem?"

20 of 63 comments (clear)

  1. My experiences by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've had this problem with VCRs in the past, recording a show on one player, and then playing it on another would usually yield poor results. Or sometimes one movie I had bought would play fine in one player, but would be very bad quality in another. I assumed it was due to differences in read head alignment or something. On the other hand, I don't know how this could happen with DVDs. Because everything is digital, the output should be the same no matter which player/recorder you use. I've never experienced this problem with DVDs, even with home movies that were recorded onto DVD, they play fine in all the players I've tried them in.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  2. I don't know about DVD recorders, but by artifex2004 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    as far as videotape recorders go, have you had the read and write heads properly aligned? Are you using real, professional recorder models, or crappy consumer models?
    With proper alignment, professional and even decent quality consumer video recorders should make tapes that are interchangeable without real degradation.
    If you're serious about archiving, a professional or at least digital format is probably what you want, also, not VHS.

    1. Re:I don't know about DVD recorders, but by gravis777 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. Use professional SVHS recorders and players. Don't use consumer grade, they are crap. You may even want to try some Prosumer models. I have had VERY good luck recording with $200 SVHS VCRs recording with one recorder and playing back on another. If you are trying to record on cheap tapes using cheap $40 recorders, yeah, playback from one machine to another is going to look like crap. Use SVHS, export to your destination source via the SVHS cable and output rather than composet or coax, and it should look great.

  3. This is beautiful by TLouden · · Score: 5, Funny

    Let me be the first (or somewhere close) to say that it's high time the legal system finally saw some of the ill effects of 'protecting' hollywood.

    --
    -Tim Louden
    1. Re:This is beautiful by WalletBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that the legal system aren't the ones making the laws that 'protect' Hollywood, it's the legislative system that does. It's the legal systems duty to see that those laws are enforced.

    2. Re:This is beautiful by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Except that the legal system aren't the ones making the laws that 'protect' Hollywood, it's the legislative system

      How many legislators and lobbyists are lawyers by profession? Almost all of them. If a problem affects lawyers, they've got the connections to get attention better than any other group.

    3. Re:This is beautiful by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, "enforcement" is part of the executive branch (police, Feds, etc.)

      The "legal system" (judiciary) is responsible for interpreting the laws, which puts them in the perfect position (as in, their job, bullshit whinging about "activist judges" notwithstanding) to spank some of this crap down.

  4. Encrypted high frequencies? by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative
    This problem should not appear on DVDs.

    In progressive JPEG, first the low frequencies are stored, and then the high frequencies are stored. This way, you get a blurred preview image before the rest of the data fills in the detail. The consumer electronics-Hollywood complex could make DVD recorders work the same way: encrypt the high frequencies so that any other player model won't be able to play the copy at full quality, discouraging people from using DVD video recorders to record TV and make counterfeit season box sets.

  5. Use a computer by delirium+of+disorder · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why not display the video using a PC with a video card that has composite or S-video output? You should be able to hook up to any modern TV or projector. You could encode the video in whatever format you want: lossless DV, Ogg Theora, XviD, even WMV if you are really sadistic. You could store it on whatever medium you want: DVD, a hard disk, a NAS, CD, usb flash drives, whatever. Backups should be easy.

    --
    ------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
    1. Re:Use a computer by mandos · · Score: 5, Interesting

      To add to the above: the digital form gives you more flexiablity in delivering the content. You don't necessarily have to be at the same physical location. I mention this, as more and more prisons are going to telepresense of inmates in courtrooms. Rather then bussing them from the prison to courthouse and back, just doing a video confernce via the courthouse and prison. No reason why the same underlying technologies can't be used to desiminate video interviews. Likewise, if you go to court, but forgot one of the videos or needed an additional one the digital form would allow you to retrieve it without leaving the courtroom.

      Lastly, newer video codecs allow for compression much greater then MPEG-2 used on DVDs. This means that your archive could use less physical space to store more videos. I believe an additional Ask Slashdot coverd this a few days ago. This also helps protect you against technology obseletion. Rather then being stuck with 10,000 VHS tapes in 2015, just do a batch convert from format A to format B as needed, and then stream the resulting video to the courtroom.

      --
      Mike Scanlon
    2. Re:Use a computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      This would also make editting very simple, modify facial features change voice,etc. ;)

  6. a couple solutions by blackcoot · · Score: 4, Informative

    yes, there are uncrippled machines that can do what you want (and then some). you probably have one sitting on your desk

    if you're running under linux, you've got a couple options. kino (http://www.kinodv.org/ will allow you to capture live raw video (plus sound) from a standard dv camera with an ilink (aka 1394a) connection. it takes a little effort to get setup, but it's worth it. you'll then want to use ffmpeg to re-encode the files so that they're less huge and then save the encoded version.

    if you have analog cameras, a $50 capture card (we use ati's all-in-wonder) can act as a frame grabber --- it may take a little finagling to get the sound working, but once it's all hooked up you should be good to go. use xawtv to preview and make sure that everything is behaving as expected, then use ffmpeg to capture the video. make sure you encode at fairly high bit rate and be careful about what combinations of codec and containers you choose (in particular, you probably want to stick to msmpeg4v2 encoded .wmv files if you intend the video to be played back on windows machines). if you've installed something like VLC on the playback machines, you can use more interesting codecs like h264 and still achieve quite impressive playback quality at much lower bitrates.

    there are ways to do similar things in windows, although i have much less experience doing so and tend to use developers tools (like graphedit) to put together the directshow filters that will capture video and sound from some source, encode, mux, and then output the file. i'm sure that there are pieces of software out there that can do this. if you have access to some it people, writing your own should be fairly easy (there's a handy book on the subject here: http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Microsoft/dp/073 5618216/sr=8-1/qid=1156903037/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-273 5593-2181510?ie=UTF8)

    if you're not inclined to build your own solution, virtualdub http://www.virtualdub.org/ may be able to help you. i haven't used it myself, but it's a pretty widely used app.

    the one thing to bear in mind with all these proposed solutions is that you're going to want to make sure you've got fairly big and fast disks and quite a lot of space free. you're also going to want to make sure you've got a reliable backup strategy in place since you no longer have the luxury of the original tapes. if you have any other questions, feel free to email me: (my slashdot user name) 'at' yahoo(dot com).

  7. Eliminate the Consumer-level equipment by B5_geek · · Score: 2, Informative

    Step #1 eliminate ALL of the analogue equipment, there are hundreds of experts that can claim the same footage is real & fake. (UFO recordings anyone?)
    Step #2 Use digital equipment connected to a PC recording the feed in real-time. A Md5sum/hash will be your (CoverYourAss) proof that the video has not been faked.

    Backups then become simple.
    Burn it to a DVD and it becomes portable.

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
  8. Maybe a PC? by NetRAVEN5000 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Maybe you could try using a PC with a video capture device - you know, hook the camera to a TV tuner or something and record it that way. Then you could burn the video files to DVD, upload them to a server, put them on a backup drive, etc. It's also possible to record from the computer to the tape if you want a tape backup.

  9. Honeywell DVR by clifyt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd done some recent work with a friends department store to verify video hasn't been tampered with and all that jazz -- and it turned out the job had already been done for me.

    They have a Honeywell DVR -- theirs is a 16 Camera unit, but I'm sure there are others -- that records multiple cameras, and ensures that this isn't altered. The video is encrypted and you can ask for chunks of it to be recorded out to CD or DVD, but it records to its own little Windows application that can detect if anything has been altered and shows all the encryption up front and verifies that it is intact.

    Don't get me wrong, its annoying that its a Windows Only application (especially as from all accounts, this machine looks to be running on some sort of *NIX) -- but then again, what DA is running OS X or Ubantu (I had to pull up Parallels to see if it worked on my Mac).

    From what I understand, the unit has been certified by the gov't for this sort of work...look into it if you need to archive stuff that needs to stay in the digital domain AND be uneditable / verifyable. I don't have much more info than that, but it was a pretty slick machine.

  10. Send the machines back - they are faulty by TheLink · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Any DVD recorder that can't write stuff that can be played back well with normal working players is faulty.

    Whatever they tell you, it is faulty. Send it back and get a refund or working replacement.

    Given you are likely to know many friendly lawyers, maybe you could hint that various sorts of unpleasant legal action might be taken if they don't do the right thing...

    --
    1. Re:Send the machines back - they are faulty by Lehk228 · · Score: 2, Informative

      some older (not sure if they still do this) Sony DVD players will NOT read any CD-R or DVD-R discs, however CDRW and DVD+R seem to work fine

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  11. Welcome to the future by Wylfing · · Score: 4

    Unauthorized footage is prohibited. Think of the goddam starving grips, script writers, and boom operators who you are putting out into the street because you are undercutting their livelihood with your "recordings" for "legal purposes." What a crock. If you really are "law enforcement" you should do things the right way and hire a Hollywood studio to record these things for you. Anything else is the same as shoplifting.

    Seriously, you are SOL. There are definitely ways to beat this kind of thing, but you will be breaking the law and/or causing others to break the law simply by inquiring. The operators of Slashdot may even get a nice visit from the FBI if anyone posts methods for how to defeat these copy protection measures.

    Welcome to the future, where due process is no obstacle to protecting media companies' profits.

    --
    Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
  12. PVR-250 does real-time video compression by Chuck+Messenger · · Score: 2, Informative

    Or, use a PVR card, which does compression on-the-fly. I've used the Hauppauge(sp??) PVR-250 (with Linux) for a long time, without issue.

  13. Maintenance required? by scdeimos · · Score: 3, Informative

    You really shouldn't be seeing issues like this with user-created DVDs.

    So far as VCR's go, there's a lot of moving parts in there even for "simple" consumer-level devices. Regular maintenance is essential, especially on high-use equipment. The most common cause of recording/playback/portability problems is due to the back-tension rollers. These are rubber-coated wheels which help to hold the video tape against the head drum to ensure proper reading/writing from/to the oxide layer. These eventually get a smooth sheen on them due to wear and oxide stripping from the tape and thus cause slippage and irregular transport of the tape and glitches in the signal. They can usually be fixed-up on the cheap by removing them, putting them on a machined screw on a dril and using fine-grade sandpaper just enough to remove the sheen. Clean them with alcohol to remove debris and reinsert in VCR. There may also need to be adjustment to the back tension spring on the arm which holds the back tension wheel, but this is usually better left alone. Other maintenance activites also involve cleaning the audio/tracking head and head drums (the heads themselves, actually) to remove oxide and other gunk buildups to ensure proper contact with the tape, and also occasionaly replacing the rubber drive and loading belts - particularly if the unit has been sitting idle for a while. Dai-ichi make a large range of belts for many models, which we get from WES Electronics - far cheaper than "brand" name belts.

    If your budgets are anything like police budgets in Aus then you're probably limited to consumer-level devices. You can't go past Samsung VCR's, especially get ones with the "Dub" or "Edit mode" switches as these tend to avoid the Macrovision-style copy corruption (err, protection) techniques employed in a lot of other VCRs. The seems to be getting even more prevalent, even with everyone allegedly using DVDs now or pirating movies from the net.