Linspire Makes Click and Run Free

An anonymous reader writes "After five years of charging an annual fee for their CNR (click and run) service, Linspire has dropped the annual fee, making the CNR service free. This combined with their previous announcement of open sourcing the CNR client, and the Freespire project, is all very big news. This means Freespire users can now have a free distro, using a free CNR service."

Comments

One question

[LWATCDR]

How are they going to make money?

Re:One question

[AKAImBatman]

How are they going to make money?

1. OEM installations
2. Commission from commercial software sold on CNR

Re:One question

[cerelib]

Linspire's goal seems to be a preload alternative to Windows. If they can score a few more contracts with consumer PC makers then they stand to make some good money.

Re:One question

[gEvil (beta)]

How are they going to make money?

Duh, the same way everyone else does:
2) ???

Re:One question

[Duds]

And to be quite frank, as a windows only computer user, Freespire is EASILY the most impressive Linux I've ever seen. Everything I wanted to work did and it highly likely to go on my next laptop.

CNR free might have clinched that.

Re:One question

[DoofusOfDeath]

How are they going to make money?

Volume!

Re:One question

[GreyPoopon]

sorry to be rude, but if you are a real n00b to linux, are you qualified to judge lindows, er, linspire, er, freespire beyond the install and first impressions phase?

Absolutely! It's one clear data point about how well Linspire / Freespire handles the transition of a Windows user to Linux. It's EXACTLY the kind of assessment needed if you want to know whether or not your product stands a chance of stealing market share from your biggest competitor. It's also important to understand that opinions of experienced Linux users are important too, but they answer a completely different set of questions about the product.

Re:One question

[Kadin2048]

I think, as a Windows user, he's perfectly qualified to judge Linspire as a replacement for Windows. In fact, I'd say he's probably more qualified than someone who has a lot of previous Linux experience, or who isn't coming from a full-time, Windows-only background.

Honestly, it's that "hard to understand" part that is a major problem to getting non-geeks, or even geeks who don't like spending a lot of time twiddling with their computer's software, to be interested in Linux. I'd say that trading #2 for #1 (in your post) is not always a bad thing, depending on your ultimate goals for the system.

Re:One question

[liliafan]

Actually I would say the parent is perfect to judge linspire, their main demographic is windows users, he admits to being a windows user and says he likes linspire since it is so easy to use.

I have been using linux for about 10 years, my main OS is gentoo, I am a Unix systems administrator, I would never consider introducing a windows user to linux through gentoo, or debian they need a gateway distribution, I don't feel fedora fits this bill well enough the same applies to SuSE, however linspire(freespire) are ideal, they get the users used to working in an environment that is similar enough to windows for them to find their way around, when these users want to move onto something more powerful they can change distributions.

As for:

1/ trivial to get started, difficult to do non-standard tasks
and
2/ hard to understand, easy to do your own thing".

Are you serious?? Linux is linux, yes there is differences between distributions, yes perhaps fedora provides a nice GUI to set up wireless networking and perhaps linspire provides a nice installation method but once the user becomes experienced enough with using Linux they are usually going to learn to bypass the pretty tools anyway and get themselves into the guts of the system, in which case the distribution itself is really just a matter of personal preference.

Once you get to an operating system that attempts to give the user the power to do advanced things in a simple way you find other difficulties and complications. There is no such thing as the perfect operating system for everybody.

Re:One question

[Duds]

Given that's the whole point then yes.

But thanks for being patronising. It's not that I don't use Linux because I "don't understand it". I've used it more than enough in home and business.

I don't use it because it's an utter pig to get running, an utter pig to install things and an utter pig to manage. And that goes for Debian, Mandriva, Red Hat, Suse and even Fedora. Freespire worked.

And actually I think Microsoft has had pefect success in that area. I've never had the slightest hint of a virus, security or crashing problem with XP behind a router. Of course I don't use IE.

Re:One question

[westlake]

but once the user becomes experienced enough with using Linux they are usually going to learn to bypass the pretty tools anyway and get themselves into the guts of the system

the one certainty is that end users are never going to take more than a passing interest in the internals of an operating system.

The Reason Why It can be Free

[neonprimetime]

according to CEO Kevin Carmony, Linspire is doing well enough from selling its higher-end products and services that it can afford to offer its basic CNR service free of charge

Good for him, and good for us! I guess that's what happens when you become innovative and create multiple products / services!

Re:The Reason Why It can be Free

[gid13]

It's perhaps worth mentioning that this is what I was waiting for to try it out. And if it's good, then I'll tell people. As long as they have SOME means of making money, increased adoption is usually a good thing. :)

Well Duh

[MindStalker]

They are charging for most of the software you download via CNR. I never understood why they charged for the service in the first place, as any charges reduce your potential software sales customer base.

Quite cool

[TommyBear]

I was a tester in the early days of Lindo... Linspire :) It was a good system then and it is still now. It's a good thing(tm) that it has been made free. They can still sell their commercial products through that chain.

Re:Quite cool

[garcia]

They can still sell their commercial products through that chain.

I want to know how many users they actually have and how many of those users would buy commercial software via CNR. I just can't see them having that many total users, nevermind total users that will actually buy this stuff.

More important de free...

[Beuno]

I think that even more important then the service being free is this:
(from TFA)

Linspire will release a new open-source CNR client in December as part of Freespire 1.1, the next release of the company's free Linux distribution. This distribution also includes, at the user's option, proprietary software such as Adobe Acrobat and ATI Graphic drivers.

Well what do you know

[Provocateur]

/. actually showed what the acronym stands for in the summary. The Decline and Fall of Western Civilization is now complete. Dogs and Cats can now live together.

Re:Well what do you know

[Kamineko]

It's alright. They told you what the acronym stood for, but not what it does or why it was charged for in the first place.

Here comes the targeted scripts

[fastgood]

sudo with no password needed for the default user.

I'd call it Lindows if that hadn't already been tried. FreeDows?

Re:Here comes the targeted scripts

[horati0]

sudo with no password needed for the default user.

Read some of the comments posted in that thread. Seems like running as root is No Big Deal, almost a badge of honor. These dipshits deserve whatever they get. And they will get it.

Community-driven Freespire

[intnsred]

For those interested in this, the community-driven Freespire project will likely be of interest. From their web site:

Freespire is a community-driven, Linux-based operating system that combines the best that free, open source software has to offer (community driven, freely distributed, open source code, etc.), but also provides users the choice of including proprietary codecs, drivers and applications as they see fit. With Freespire, the choice is yours as to what software is installed on your computer, with no limitations or restrictions placed on that choice. How you choose to maximize the performance of your computer is entirely up to you.

I took a while, but...

[IWorkForMorons]

I can finally see this being a good option for people I don't want to deal with helping them "fix" Windows. I knew this 5 years ago, I know this now.

The only reason I post this is in the hopes that the geek I met 5 years ago will read this and realise how much of a stuck-up geek he is. I was at the bus terminal waiting for my bus to go to work. I saw this guy holding a PDA, casually glanced at it, and he just got all excited that someone was checking it out because he had Linux on it and wanted to show it off. So on the bus ride he's prattling on about how great Linux is, how you can do everything in Linux that you can in Windows, how much better Linux is over Windows. So I ask him if he's checked out this new disto, seeing as I just found it and thought it was a cool idea. Nice, easy, user friendly, had this cool utility that downloaded and installed software for you in a single click. "It's called Lindows" I said. "Looks cool enough, and would be nice for the average person that doesn't want to rebuild their kernel." His face dropped...he looked so disgusted. It was like I just killed a puppy in front of him. He could barely even talk. He asked for my email address to "talk about Linux", but I never heard from him. Dumbass stuck-up geek...THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T GEEKS! It's so that these people bother other people to help them, or don't need help at all because the damn thing just works! It's to free up the geek's time! But he just couldn't see the potential...too disgusted that it was "like Windows"...

Re:I took a while, but...

[Omicron32]

Dude, come on. You told me you were using Lindows, how did you want me to look... Pleased?

I was a Gentoo man then, and I'm a Gentoo man now! :)

Does anyone actually use this?

[quag7]

I am curious how many people use this as their main distro, and how they got there. I have yet to run into a single person who has settled on this. Hell, I've barely even run into anyone interested in trying it.

So if anyone is reading this and does use this as their main distro, I'm curious why you use it, and what you tried before it.

Because I'm just not clear on the point of this distribution. Looking at free (as in beer) Linux distributions like OpenSuSE and *buntu, I just don't understand why anyone would pay for this.

Paying for home desktop Linux just strikes me as....bizarre. ...Unless there is some significant advantage to this distribution, but honestly looking at YaST, I don't understand how much easier it needs to get. I'm sort of surprised this distribution is still around. Is the company profitable?

(And no, I'm not a SuSE user, but I've played with it.)

Someone step in and drop some science on this please.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[S3Indiana]

Started testing the OS in late 2002, became my primary desktop in 2003, used exclusively at home and work since 2004. Everything I need works out-of-the-box; CNR is the easiest software install system I've seen. What makes this different is most file type extensions work without any further installation/configuration. Why wouldn't someone want to use it???

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[PFI_Optix]

"Paying for home desktop Linux just strikes me as....bizarre. ..."

I can only think of one valid reason to pay for Linux: support.

If a company sold Linux for a reasonable price and offered competent phone support, it would be worthwhile for people looking for a Windows alternative who don't have the time to invest in getting to know Linux well enough to be comfortable with it as their only operating system.

It's not in use at my work (except in a few dedicated roles using live CDs) because the adminstrator doesn't know Linux well enough to be comfortable with relying on it. There isn't a support structure comparable to Microsoft's; their knowledge base alone trumps any support offerings I've ever seen for Linux.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[intnsred]

I just don't understand why anyone would pay for this.

First, I understand you exactly and agree with your point(s).

But to explain, I've seen quite a few people buy Linspire (and a couple even pay for the CNR access). I thought they were loons but after seeing this repeatedly I had to think about it.

The conclusion that I came to was "consumerist training". People are taught to think like that -- just watch TV if you don't believe me. These people have a strong "feeling" that if you pay for something it has to be better. In short, they're "Americans" with "American values".

I see the same thing all the time with Windows users. Some people actually get a certain satisfaction at buying anti-virus software and registry maintenance software and other odds-and-ends $20 or $40 utilities that are unneeded in a GNU/Linux system.

It sounds bizarre, but I'm serious -- some people do like that to a limited extent. They always say, "It's just $30 so what's the big deal?" And it gives them a certain satisfaction because in their mind they're "helping" and "optimizing" their computer.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[AnotherCaptainTux]

Hi, I use Linspire and Freespire almost exclusively (my server is CentOS) I've been a Linux user since late 2001. I started working in sales for a company that exclusively used RHL on the server and desktop. I was a bit lost as a long time Mac user and ordered a PII on ebay and started using Mandrake. I subscribed to Linux Format Magazine as well. For a newbie who had not done anything deeper than pointing and clicking for the last ten years, my learning curve was harsh. I would go to forums and mail lists for help and be told to RTFM....my question was always WHAT Fing manual! Where?!?!? I bought dummies books, I bought books and went to websites that promised to be helpful, they were not. It was the vision explained by Eic Raymond in "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" that kept me going and not the functionality or usability. Along the way I discovered SUSE 8.2 and thought..."Much better, but I am still using my Mac." I had read about Lindows in a review in Linux Format about version 3.0. I liked what I read. I asked some friends about it and went to slash dot and was told they are evil and kicked puppies. So, I listened to the muses that abused me into a co dependent relationship of confusion and stayed lost and continued to use my Mac. In 2004, Lindows changed the name to Linspire and had a free offer for the ISO. By this point I had grown pretty darn comfortable with the shell, RPM, YAST, etc etc. I was even a member of a local LUG and had taken some classes at a local College to get better acquainted with Linux. This is, by the way, far more than the average person would do. Anyway, I downloaded Linspire and checked it out on my box. Darn thing installed with zero effort. It had flash tutorials that explained how to do many basic things that would help newbies. There was Lsongs and Lphoto which were intuitive and overall, it just worked. Now, I still had a problem with this CNR. Paying for free software! Damn puppy kickers! But they had a 15 day trial. I figured I would try it for 15 days, download everything I wanted and cancel. HA! During that 15 day trial, I got spoiled. I go to the warehouse, read a description, read user reviews, one click and it is installed and even adds it in the menu and a pretty icon on my desktop if I so desire. Here is the kicker, if something did NOT work, I could contact Linspire and they would fix it. Customer support for 3rd party applications as long as I download it through CNR? WOW! Then I go to the forums. I see users who are new to Linux being treated with kindness, courtesy, and respect. The immediate need would be fed first and then they would be given tips and advice on how to find answers for themselves. By the time 5-0 came out, I sold my Mac. As far as other Linspire users out in the world? I know of 3 in my home town and seven in the neighboring town. I know many others on forums, mail lists, and Summits. Some are industry professionals. You know who the rest are? Senior citizens, hair dressers, stay at home parents, bus drivers, truck drivers, pilots, avon reps, librarians, and well...normal people. For newbies, Linux needs to just work and the command line is something a single mom working 50 hours a week only to be a mom and a house manager when she gets home will not ever have the interest or inclination to go to. If Linux is malleable and flexible, as well as more secure and more stable, we should be able to make it simple enough for her to use. Open source needs open arms. the open arms to newbies is one of the reasons I am with Linspire and Freespire even though it is "too simple" for me. Cheers! Patrick

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[larryau]

Actually at my job many of the desktops were switched to linspire. Worked great for many of the employees. I think the company did not mind the fee because it gave them that security if anything went wrong they could get support. The entire time I have been there they have not once had to call for support. Now granted the vast majority of the users are just using it for normal stuff like email, word processing, ...etc.

I personally like it because it is easy to set up and use much is clear to understand what does what. Not like many of the other distros you have to hunt around and guess how to do something or worse for someone that is not linux savvy have to hack something to get it to work.

One of the biggest plus is how to install and update software. The process is crystal clear. Unlike many other distros where it almost always does not work the way it says it is suppose to. Many times you have to go hacking around the config files to add a repository or change some obscure setting that just does not mean anything to the average employee / user.

The key is ease of use. It installs very fast, one of the fastest to install out of all the distros. It does not ask a lot of complicated questions, it just does it and it works.

As for other distors I like SUSE, but it is not smooth such as the recent fiasco with the ZNetwork, Yast, YOU, RUG stuff had many people pulling there hair out. And even though SUSE is getting better you still have to get into the OS to get it to behave.

Ubuntu was nice install, but frankly its just plain ugly. Its update and install software is a bit more refined, but needs additional work. Its not always clear what it is doing or were to go to get what.

Linspire is an excellent choice for those that are not linux or geek heads, it was never meant to be that. It was meant to be an alternative to windows and it fulfills that very well. You just plug it in and it goes.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[dslauson]

I'm using it as my main distro right now. I really want to make a clean break from Windows. The main thing that has stopped me from getting rid of that nasty NTFS partition is that I could never get my wireless card to work. I've spent hours searching the forums and messing around ndiswrapper, with no luck.

Freespire is the first distro I've tried where it just worked, right out of the proverbial box. I've tried Ubuntu, Suse, Debian, Fedora, Knoppix, and a handful of others. My pattern would be to install it, play with it for a while, try desperately to get a wireless driver working, and then give up and go back to Windows, because I don't want to have to sit right next to my router, and I don't want to have to buy a new wireless card.

With my next computer purchase, I will totally do my research and make sure I'm buying hardware that works under any distro, but for somebody who is spontaneously thinking about making the switch from Windows, if their hardware doesn't work, they will generally give up.

So, for me, it is the proprietary drivers that are the big selling point. It's nice having Java, Acrobat, and others ready to go, too, I must say. Before, you could just apt-get Synaptic and you've got free software downloads and updates, but now with free CNR, which I've heard is rediculously easy, maybe I'll give that a try.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[CronoCloud]

Don't forget Nethack. If he starts playing in first grade he'll probably have his first acension by high school graduation.

CNR is great, but their customized apps suck!

[ylikone]

I had my mother-in-law running on Linspire 5.0, having switched from Windows 98. It was great as it eliminated the support I had to give every time Win98 crashed or something went wonky. I switched her to Linspire because I figured it has the easiest method of installation. You run CNR, browse the apps in the categories, see screenshots and descriptions, click to install, icon gets put on desktop. Excellent! But then the problems started. Many of Linspires default branded apps, suchs as Lphoto, just had too many bugs to be usuable. Even with a fully supported HP deskjet printer, Lphoto refused to print the way the preview windows showed. Thunderbird refused to print emails with anything other than a huge font. Simple programs that should perform simple just didn't work. I run ArchLinux and my software all works the way I expect it to... I don't know what Linpsire did to screw things up. Anyway, she sprung for paying for WinXP and I installed that for her. It seems that Linspire, while having the easiest install system, is not ready for grandma yet.

True

[ylikone]

While I am not personally a Linspire user, it always annoys me when ignorant people complain about them charging for free software. They never did! The free software was always free. If you choose to use the CNR method to install it, you had to pay $20/year for the service of doing so. You didn't pay for all the free software it installed for you though.

People who like easy installs

[ylikone]

CNR is unquestionably the BEST software installer on ANY distro or Windows or Mac. Screenshots, description and reviews before you single-click-to-get-it-installed-with-an-icon-on-y our-desktop is hard to beat!

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[Squarewav]

The main advantage of linspire/freespire is that it works very well out of the box nvidia/ati drivers, printer/network printer/ media codecs (divx/mpg/quicktime/wm/real/ect) all preinstalled wich makes it a good choice for small OEMS that want to install linux and not have to do a lot of tweeking to get the distro to work with the hardware

as far as maintenance/updates spire follows sorta debian stable aproach in that it takes them a long time to update software unless there is a security problem (spire is not for people who want the latest and greatest)

The major drawbacks I found with freespire/linspire
1) Its dog slow, takes a long time to bootup, apps take longer to start compared to other distros
2) doesnt setup the monitor corectly, requires setting the resolution and refresh rate in its controll panal, possible to set it outside the spects of the display (i.e 100 hz on a 75hz max monitor)
3) A lot of outdated software such as kde 3.3

Re:Eliminating a $20/year fee is BIG news?

[Kadin2048]

I don't think that the fee was really stopping anyone who was Truly Interested from getting the service, but it certainly was keeping some people who were maybe peripherally interested, but not wholly convinced, from giving it a shot.

There is very little difference between $19 and $20. There is a huge, vast, gaping chasm between something that costs $1 and something that is free.

If you can now play with a service at no cost, I think more people are likely to try it out, who wouldn't have even considered it before just because it costs money. Now, it's a valid question whether these sorts of folks are really worth anything as customers, but that's a separate issue.

volume

[oohshiny]

It may be free, but they are going to make up for that in volume.