Internet Not the Social Hinder it Was

imjustatomato writes "A 1998 study showed that the Internet causes declines in social relationships and isolation, similarly to how television causes social disengagement and bad moods. This is the 'Internet Paradox' because while the internet is heavily used for communication, it makes people lonelier. However, a more recent study shows that now the internet has a positive effect on social and psychological well-being. This is even more so for those who have more social support and are extroverted in nature. Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area."

Comments

interest in leaving

[The Dark Caller]

I find the bit about less local interest interesting as I know that I had little desire to leave Tennessee until I began surfing the internet regularly, meeting people from other places and reading about them on online news sites. Indeed, the first time I truly wanted to leave my state came when I 'dated' a girl online. . . and it's thanks to internet research that I ended up here at Boston U. Naturally curious person enabled by the net, or innocent Southern boy corrupted by the tubes'o'satan?

2002

[skinnyrake]

The most recent of the two articles was published in 2002. Is this really relevant to the internet of 2006?

Diversity

[Anonymous Coward]

The data are from 208 members of 93 Pittsburgh families, to whom we provided a
computer and access to the Internet in 1995 or 1996. The families were recruited through four
high school journalism programs and four community development organizations in 8 Pittsburgh
neighborhoods. The sample was more demographically diverse than was typical of Internet users
at the time.

OK, great they are more demographically diverse. But they are hardly socially diverse. If the study is going to pick journalism students and community development groups they are probably going to find people who are already quite extroverted. This certainly doesn't disprove the idea that introverted people will become more introverted because with the Internet they no longer have to interact as much in society.

Quick hypothesis

[SamSim]

I'm gonna guess that the main difference here that in 1998, internet relationships weren't counted as "real" relationships.

Define social and psychological well-being

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the answers might relate to the definition of social and psychological well-being. For example; in 1998 if someone said to have numerous online friends, they where looked upon as anti-social and unable to make friend in the real world. This is beginning to change.

Re:Define social and psychological well-being

[indifferent children]

they are more sincerely curious about how one goes about making friends on the Internet

You pop into a chat room and announce, "I'm a cute, lonely 13 year old girl." The friends practically make themselves.

5 years out of date! tell us other old things!

[fantomas]

For goodness sake, this is pushing it a bit far, reporting on 5 year old papers. In other latest news from 2002 - New Orleans happy with flood defences, Lebanese economy doing well with current peaceful regional politics, British Airways relaxes security on air travel a year after 9/11 .... sigh ! :-)

Is that a bad thing?

[JanneM]

frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area.

Which of course is not really a negative at all. "The internets" doesn't cause disaffection, it just shows you all the alternatives out there for all those already not happy where they live. No one community is a great place to live in for everybody after all. If it helps you find a place you'll like better it's just good for everyone.

Also, the ability to have contact with diverse groups no matter where you're physically residing probably helps smooth the rough edges out of living anywhere. If you can cultivate your interests over the net, staying in your community may not chafe as much as it would have done in an earlier era.

Re:Is that a bad thing?

[Eivind]

Sure. In the absence of affordable communication and transport, the local environment is all there is, so you'll spend 100% of your time interacting only with your local environment.

The moment you get newspapers, radio or television, you start becoming *aware* that there's a larger world out there. But it's still one-way, you don't interact with this world, you only receive information from it.

With cheap travel, internet and telephone you are directly in contact with a lot that isn't in your immediate surrounding.

I know people in atleast 2 dozen countries. I've got *friends* living on other continents. People I talk to every week (sometimes every day), people I care about. Offcourse this means that I spend *less* time with the "local environment". When the starting-point was 100% local, how could this go any other direction than downwards ?

You don't need to make it global either. It's the same on a much smaller scale.

When my great-grandmother was small, (aprox 100 years ago) it was completely unpractical to have friends even 10 miles away. Sure you'd *know* some people living that far away, but communicating with them in any way meant either spending 2 hours for transport, or if you didn't need face-to-face, write a letter and wait several days for an answer.

The world is shrinking.

I'm closer to my friends in oh say Texas (Hallo Nadine!) (I live in Norway) in every way that matters than my grandmother was to her boyfriend (later husband) that lived about 50 miles away.

• I can trivially, and at zero cost talk to her whenever I want. 100 years ago that wasn't possible in rural Norway at all. For large expense (a days pay) a telegram could be sent that'd arrive the same day.
• I can send her email, and she'll receive it minutes later. 100 years ago a letter would be expensive, and would take on the order of a week to arrive.
• I can visit her. It takes like 10 hours of travel, and costs on the order of 1 weeks pay. 100 years ago the 50 miles took on the order of 15 hours by horse and boat.
• I can even send her physical packets, and have them arrive quicker and cheaper than the 50 miles back then.

In every way that matters *Texas* is closer to western Norway today than two different villages 50 miles from oneanother where 100 years ago.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Why does the grass look greener?

[Chatsubo]

"Unlike regional newspapers, for example, the Internet makes news about distant cities as accessible as news about one's hometown."

But also, we read about the cool things other places are doing on places like slashdot. Of course, we're not interested in all the BAD news about those places. Because the crime news about other places more or less matches that of our own. Maybe that's why the grass looks greener. Because we see all the positive and negative of our own environment, but only the "cool" stuff going on in other places. So naturally we want to go there.

Hinder is not a noun

[tez_h]

'Hinder' is a verb. The noun form is 'hindrance'.

Internet forums helped me open up

[rolfwind]

I was painfully shy as a teenager. Was terrified of approaching people in general to talk to them and would avoid most social situations at all costs - I guess I had what psychologists would call a social anxiety disorder. I couldn't even post in an internet forum without the fear of humiliation.

Yet it was the internet where I dared post before I ever tried to contribute in such a way in a real life situations. The more I interacted online, the more comfortable (and confident) I felt doing the same in reallife to the point where I can approach strangers and start conversation.

*Shrugs* Maybe it was the internet or just getting older, as I realize this process happens to a lot of people who were extremely shy/self-conscious as teenagers. But there is no comparing the internet to TV, the TV is a passive medium, the internet is interactive. The only danger I see is when people start substituting the internet for real life.

Re:Internet forums helped me open up

[ArsenneLupin]

For me too, it was a similar situation, very shy in real life, it was lots easier for me on the Internet.

I couldn't even post in an internet forum without the fear of humiliation.

But unlike real life, you can stay as anonymous as you want in a forum. And withdraw if things turn really sour.

Moreover, most forums have a subject, and if you that subject is sth which you really like (such as computer, Linux, etc.), you don't need to worry about boring people with it, because all other participants are in that forum because they have the same interest.

So the more I interacted in forums (or rather, Usenet newsgroups, at that time), the more confidence I built for "real life".

Maybe it was the internet or just getting older

Most definately the internet helped. At least in my case.

And the best part: you can also find resources about shyness and what to do about it on the Internet.

And about certain "other" personal traits as well ;-)

as I realize this process happens to a lot of people who were extremely shy/self-conscious as teenagers

And the same thing happens with that "other" personal trait too. Whereas in the olden days, some people waited until they were 50 to make that important announcement, today they feel quite comfortable about it in highschool.

But there is no comparing the internet to TV, the TV is a passive medium, the internet is interactive.

As TV is by nature a broadcast medium, it can only cater to the majority, and not to special interests.

The only danger I see is when people start substituting the internet for real life.

But the good thing is when they use it as a stepping stone into the real life, which they otherwise might not have. Not just by providing chat rooms, but also by providing lots of informational resources that show you how to change those traits that can be changed, and how to accept and stand up for those traits than cannot be changed.

Re:Staring

[legoburner]

I dont know, I live in London and have such a large local area that most of the time I dont know what is where. The Internet has helped out a lot, from casual browsing of online mapping services to see what is just outside the immediate area, to sites like up my street which lets me find any businesses near me. I have learned a lot more about my area from the Internet than I have by just going out and exploring (which I do fairly often as well).

I live in an apartment complex.

[gettingbraver]

And I would rather be online than talk to some of my loser neighbors. And I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Quote

[jolterhead]

Marcus Tullius Cicero once said:

A room without books is like a body without a soul

I can't see why "books" can't be replaced by "internet access".

Re:Staring

[Crysalim]

Quite the opposite. You can learn a great deal from staring at that "box" in your room. Those people at the City Hall (or bar, or restaurant, or whatever fictional place people need to "get outside and go to") wouldn't be able to tell you about the current situation on definition of planets, or the state of affairs in Israel/Lebanon.

Those people are too busy superficially socializing and killing brain cells to drown out the idea that there's something more to life than what other people's preconceived notions are.

Then again, staring at this box has taught me one extremely valuable lesson - people will say anything, even if it is meaningless, in order to get a first post (and the inevitable mod points following it).

not a scientific study

[petes_PoV]

So we have 2 studies, one shows one effect and the other shows the opposite.

There's simply no basis for drawing conclusions here. while it's quite entertaining to talk about this, it would be a big mistake to actually think that either of these studies mean anything.

I'm pretty sure that if you did a few more studies, you could get some that confirm and some that refute the idea that internet use leads to/cure social isolation.

To quote a wise man:

"The only possible conclusion the social sciences can draw is: some do, some don't."

- Ernest Rutherford

Re:Staring

[BoomerSooner]

See social sites aren't all bad!

Facebook
MySpace
OKCupid (free dating site)

Hell think of all the underaged girls & boys you can meet and stalk! Hell it might even get you famous on TV!! Yea, Dateline!! (okay the last part was a joke)

Re:Staring

[dragonsomnolent]

To be sure, if you lived in Israel/Lebanon, it might even behoove you to not go outside to find out what's going on.

Heh. You needed the Internet for that?

[Moraelin]

Then again, staring at this box has taught me one extremely valuable lesson - people will say anything, even if it is meaningless, in order to get a first post (and the inevitable mod points following it).

Heh. You needed the Internet to learn that? No offense, but I'd have thought that anyone who's ever went to (high) school, had any work that doesn't only involve telecommuting, or, really, went out of the house at all, had witnessed the RL-equivalent of karma-whoring. People want to be perceived as part of the group, well liked, cool, fashionable, etc, and will go to insane (and often bloody stupid) extremes to achieve that.

It even has an impact on polls and statistics, as you have to skew your poll to account for the facts that:

- if it seems that the interviewer wants a particular answer, they'll give that answer, just to be liked. So if you actually want a fair result, you have to go to great lengths to make sure that the question sounds as neutral as it the English language allows. (Or, conversely, if you want to skew the statistics to your ends, you just need to give people a strong indication that only a monster would pick the other choices.)

- all else being equal, people tend to answer "yes" more than they answer "no". (Presumably because being too negative is perceived as something bad or non-social.) So you have to actually have randomized tests, where the same question is asked in one way on some forms (e.g., "are you for continuing the war in Iraq?") and as the opposite on others (e.g., "are you for stopping the war in Iraq?")

- as anthropologists showed, even when you accounted for the above two, if you ask people anything about themselves, the result will be basically a lie. Well, not as in a deliberate, conscious-level lie, but more like distorted through the need to perceive themselves as doing the right and, most importantly, the socially-acceptable thing. _Very_ few will give you an answer that, according to the current social standards, would ammount to a "yes, I'm an asshole" confession, even if the poll is completely anonymous and confidential.

Or you can see that at smaller levels, and sometimes even at petty levels, from high school to your everyday work. People ostracize person X, just because they want to fit in a group where the popular ones are against person X. People pretend to be stupid in school, just because in nowadays' broken culture it's _cool_ to be stupid and ignorant, and is waay uncool to show any academic effort or ability. (And god forbid showing _interest_.) Etc.

The most perverse form of that is "groupthink". Take a dozen people which, each of them separately, are against doing X. Put them in a group where they each think that the rest of the group is _for_ X. Watch them all vote/chest-thump/shout-slogans/whatever for X, just to please the rest of the group, and take a decision as a group that neither of them actually really wanted. It's more common than you'd think, and affects a wide range of groups, from small cliques at work to government commissions to whole countries.

Etc, etc, etc.

So let's just say that Slashdot's karma-whoring is actually just representative of society as a whole. In fact, compared to some RL counterparts, let me assure you that the worst /. karma-whores would come out looking as the milder version.