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Your Garbage Can Could Be Spying On You
macs4all writes "Garbage cans all over England are under surveillance tonight. And not by sleepy, fallible humans. This article in Live Science claims that at least 500,000 'wheelie bins' are now using RFID technology." Though that doesn't sound very dire, the article points out the ease with which your consumer spending habits could be tracked. "Although this is frankly a story that is difficult to take seriously, please note the following. You should remember that many of the articles you buy (and sooner or later throw away) are now also equipped with passive RFID tags that detail the item's brand name and product name. If it's possible to scan the tag on the trash can with an ID, it's possible to use similar equipment to quickly scan your can to uncover your purchasing habits."
So now we have to microwave our garbage aswell?
Why would you care about getting back the same garbage can? As long as they're all the same size, who cares? All they do is hold your garbage so no matter which one you get, they're all dirty.
Oh, Edmund, can it be true? that I hold here, in my mortal hand, a nugget of purest green?
Without RFID tags on the bins, someone could still walk by with a scanner and scan your trash to see what you've been buying... The only difference is that having a tag on the bin makes keeping track of who's trash it is marginally easier, but it's not impossible without them... I'm afraid that we're going to see many articles like this in the future, as people slowly discover RFID tags in things that didn't used to have them... RFID readers on garbage trucks... they can see what I'm buying! Wait... they could already see what i have been buying with my credit card... Unless i purposefully try to obfuscate my purchases of certain items with cash, chances are my arbitrary use of cash versus credit gives everyone who has access to that data a good picture of what i buy... Yes, there are new scenarios rfid tags create, but it's all the same idea. The point is things are changing... Marketing has been getting more invasive ever since it started, but we live out lives just fine today. Tomorrow, if i get a target ad on goldfish crackers because someone finds out i ate some goldfish crackers via the wheelie bin, it's not going to change my life... And yes, it could be used by bad people, but my point again is everything is like that... So lets relax a bit... -Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
I wouldn't underestimate how petty people who hate their neighbours can be. Not much use applying rational logic to their actions.
Warhammer forums
Think: broken/missing lids, hinges, handles, wheels; the can having been run into/over by a car; or the can being stolen. (If your neighbor's can is stolen, and he takes yours, it's not like you can use his.)
This wouldn't work for me. I try to maintain a healthy lifestyle. That means buying lots of fresh fruit, vegetables, meat, etc. If there's any RFID tags in the things I buy then the chances are pretty high that I'll have eaten it.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Remember folks, microwave your unmentionables before throwing them out in the trash. While you're at it, buy a new microwave and save the old one for this type of purpose. I figure 30 seconds in the microwave will make sure the RFID chip cannot be read.
The council is the local government (mayor, etc) and they take in a fixed amount of money (everyone pays the same, even rentals) as a housing tax. They pay for roads, garbage collection, schools, local police, etc. (along with Govt subsidies for the same). Council housing is housing that is either provided or subsidised for poor/disadvantaged people but there is a huge queue to get it. Single mothers seem to be the priority, as well as people who have been granted asylum. As such the level of disadvantage tends to result in no-go areas or high crime rates around council housing so the council housing estates are generally looked down upon (though this differs from area to area, some are actually quite nice and have good standards).
Warhammer forums
This is a direct violation of my inalienable right as an inhabitant of this earth to have a right to life, and a right to privacy. I have never been so pissed off in my life. I can't even control my anger right now. Why can't these governments just let us live our lives the way that WE SEE FIT, without trying to monitor EVERYTHING WE DO! This is the last straw, I will RISE UP and fight this AT ALL COSTS. They will never take my FREEDOM.
Oscar
You take it, I don't want it...
People will simply fill the bins up to the non-chargeable limit and then throw the rest out at street corners on their way to work. I can see a good market developing for pedal bins that weigh your rubbish and tell you when you reach the limit. Or a new practical joke of putting bricks on your neighbours bin.
While the paranoïac among you see this as a potential invasion of privacy, I see this as an easy way for the city to have me pay taxes only on what I put in the bin.
The process is simple. The trucks come over, put the container on a scale, scan the RFID automagically, empty the bin, voila. If it's empty, I don't pay. /kg
The net result for me is that I get to pay:
32 € per year
+11 € for the container rent per year.
+1.60 € for each time my bin is not empty
+0.16 €
Which is way less than I used to pay before.
Plus, I get to dispose of my glass stuff in containers accessible all around the city for free.
I get to dispose of my plastic and metallic (soda cans, tins, etc.) in special bags for free.
I get to dispose of 3 cubic meters (106 cubic feet) of other stuff (grass, leaves, dirt, sofa, planks, etc.) for free
The RFID on my trashbins are thus an easy way for the city to make those who dispose of more stuff pay more, which is as it should be.
I have yet to see the trash guys peek inside my stuff...
Cool system IMO...
One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
Both.
Municipal services (such as domestic rubbish collection, street lights, road maintenance, planning permission) and social housing are all handled by departments within the council. Funding comes from a number of sources, but ultimately it's 90% tax in some form. (You do have to pay rent on council housing)
The purpose of the tags is probably not to investigate buying habits. More likely, it will be combined with weighing equipment on the lorries which take the rubbish away to find out who's throwing out how much. Ostensibly this is to ensure that everyone is using the various recycling schemes properly, though I wouldn't be surprised if it culminates with being charged by weight for the amount of waste produced.
Parents with young children (how exactly do you recycle a nappy/diaper?), those without transport (not all councils take all recyclable material; some won't even take glass) will probably be the most affected by this - and, as you say, most people who fall into both brackets are poorer and so will be screwed harder.
There are several cities here in the Netherlands that already have such a system in operation. Indeed, the cans are weighed and identified by number, and the total amount used to calculate the waste disposal bill.
It is not a bad thing, in principle. I would not know why a family with 3 babies that fills two cans a week would have to pay the same as an individual who does not even have a full can after 3 weeks. Differentiation of payment makes people more aware about what they do.
However, there are problems due to antisocial behaviour. What is frequently seen in those areas, is that people dump their waste in other people's cans when they have been put outside. Also, people take garbage from their home to their work place, and dump it there, especially when such a system is not yet implemented in the area where they work.
One would expect such problems to disappear over time (especially when the system is widely implemented).
I think it was that dreadful UK tabloid, The Mail on Sunday, which created this "your bin is bugged" hysteria last week. They stirred up lots of fear and doubt by using terms like "bug" to describe something that is just a serial number. I bet if the new bins had a bar code, nobody would care less. Instead the media is making out that this RFID chip can somehow directly spy on what you are throwing away.3 767.0.whats_bugging_you.php have jumped on the Mails fear-mongering bandwagon and are doing that all too common trick... publish over-the-top scare stories one day, then run a 2nd story with feedback from 'horrified readers' the next. A sure sign of media hype.
In my town, local newspapers like the Daily Echo http://www.thisisbournemouth.co.uk/display.var.90
But what baffles me with this situation is the tabloid press in the UK say very little about the real privacy issues of the day.... the ID card scheme, this new national database of childrens details, DRM seeping into our products and purchases. But garbage containers that have a number - oh the horror! Jeez!
Ok just one more thing... I know RFID tags are not liked by slashdot. I'm no fan of them either. Making bins identifiable is a step towards a new form of non-recycled refuge taxation. I don't think thats a bad thing if it causes people to recycle more. But these new taxes tend to be on top of existing taxes. So its not like we'd get a local tax offset first. This angle is generating concern as represented by the public feedback. But the mdeia spin on the capabilities of the technology amaze me. Though it if makes the ID card scheme falter, its a good thing.
So take them off and pop them in the microwave, then replace them. Dire warnings aside, the workload on modern refuse collectors is so high that it's vanishingly unlikely that the system will be set up scan and refuse bins without an RFID before emptying them, and it's a fair bet that the beaurocracy won't be set up effectively to investigate who owns which anonymous bin. Do you see the chap on the bin lorry giving a damn? He just wants to get done as soon as possible.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
"I'm quite happy for the local council to look into charging a tax for people who can't be bothered to do so."
Seems to me a better solution would be to pay enough money for recyclables that most people would do it voluntarily. Oh I forgot, no commercial enterprise is willing to pay for recyclables because the profit margins are insignificant (ie; it costs almost as much, and sometimes more, to reuse recyclables as it does to use raw materials). But then again it isn't about saving money, or even saving the "environment" after all is it? It's about training the populace to obey government orders.
9/11 Eyewitnesses to Explosive WTC Demolition 1 of 2
"UK is a small crowded place, that's running out of landfill sites rapidly."
Only about 8% of British land is built on, and there are vast areas that could be used for landfills.
Instead, we end up with piles of 'recyclables' that no-one wants, and have to pay to ship them to the Third World so they'll dump them for us. Recycling in the UK is a huge scam, and this is just another way for councils to charge more for doing less.
Your garden is not built on. Would you like a landfill site there?
(a) Landfills have to be kept carefully away from other areas due to pollution and other concerns, so they have a much greater footprint than space they occupy themselves.
(b) Landfills have to be located reasonably near where the garbage is produced. They have to be geographically stable areas. And so on. Many of the places not built on are places that are not built on for a reason, and should not be landfill sites for the same reason.
(c) Just because land is not built on does not mean that nobody cares about what goes on it. If YOU aren't happy to have a landfill near your home or place of work, what right do you have to ask Farmer Bob, or Park Manager Sue, or whatever to have a landfill anywhere near them?
Stencils don't allow our local governments to send a £700k computer systems contract to a councillor's brother in law.
Got a right wing religious wacko neighbor? Throw away your condoms, XXX magazines, liquor bottles, etc in his trash. Muslim neighbor? Pork rinds. Slashdotter? Empty boxes from MS products.
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One might, but in the UK, councils began charging businesses for the depositing of commercial waste in land-fill sites, a few years ago.
The result has been an explosion in the cases of fly-tipping: innocent land-owners - those who own a piece of open land - and it can be anything from a building site to grassland to a carpark - have refuse tipped on their land, and then face a huge bill to clear up the rubbish. If the landowner fails to clear it up, the council can, and does, apply a court order forcing them to clear it up, at their own cost - and if they fail to do so, the council will clear it up themselves and send the land-owner the bill!
In some cases, fly-tipping will even occur on land that is supposedly secure - fenced off - and the fly-tippers will even cut through padlocks to open gates to land where they can offload their waste.
The reason for this is that it's very lucrative to the fly-tippers - who undercut the council's charges (and don't generally care about the exact nature of the rubbish - hazardous chemicals, medical waste, etc.) and very good business sense for the businesses who use fly-tippers.
Charging people for the disposal of waste discourages them from using the service and leads people to seek other cheaper or no-cost ways of ridding themselves of their rubbish.
If the scheme outlined in the news-story is implemented, domestic waste will join the massive problem that commercial waste fly-tipping is causing here in the UK. Neighbour's bins will be used, public areas, parks, skips, anything to get out of paying.
The solution? For commercial waste - slap a blanket charge on every business that is likely to use the service that they pay along with their rates/taxes, and can't get out of - it becomes pointless for them to avoid using the official land-fill. For residential waste - stick with the system we have now - a service charge via the grossly unfair and unjust council tax.
-Blue
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
-b.
You scare me. Are you one of the filthy bastids who walks down the street dropping rubbish as you walk, goes on picnics and leaves crap everywhere, because it's not your back yard so you don't care? Mate, just because there is space to dump stuff, it doesn't mean it makes the place a whole lot nicer if you do. I'd prefer I could go for a walk in the countryside rather than walk between landfill sites in ten years time and not suffer because losers demand it's a human right to consume and throw huge amounts of crap.
A good place to start would be to educate people to use less packaging, to re-use what they've got, make sure stuff is packaged in biodegradable packing so what's thrown breaks down. Persuade people to purchase stuff that lasts longer, persuade the manufacturers not to build stuff that is designed to fall apart. Lots of issues I know but we're going to be neck deep in crap if don't start somewhere.
There's more of us, we consume more. Recycling isn't a scam per se, maybe the current implementation is flawed, I completely agree too much gets shipped off so some poor bastids get a dollar a day cooking circuit boards over open fires and chucking the rest in their drinking / washing water streams... how are we going to stop this stuipidity?
My local city government wanted to add RFID tags to our plastic trash bins, not to monitor the citizens but to monitor those who pick up the trash. Think of it like workflow management.
As the bins were picked up, the idea was an RFID reader would "tick off" each bin as picked up, eventually marking an entire route as completed.. if the trash collectors picked everything up.
Funny enough, the RFID tags kept comming off the bins. Something about damage in handling, warping of the plastic bins in extreams of weather... almost like some people didn't want the system to work.
A Human Right
New microwaves have RFID scanners so they can detect RFID chips. They will only hum like they are zapping a chip. :-)
I know. Some of us have quintuple-wide garages, 12 cylinder SUVs, and 10000 sq ft houses made from endangered owls.
I'm involved with writing the code for this a project using this technology for a recycling subcontractor somewhere in rural England/Wales. The RFID simply allows us to tag a recycling box to a household then collect data on the weight of recyclate returned in each box. Housholds are issued with two boxes - paper/textiles/card and glass/cans so that's the finest level of detail being collected.
The use of the data is that it will allow the recycling organisation to work out which areas are recycling a lot of material and which are not, and the intention is to make that information available back to the public on a 'community' level. What a community is hasn't been precisely defined, but it's going to be larger, probably considerably larger, than postcode purposly so individuals can't be identified. The local authority will make use of the information by identifying areas where it needs to do more to encourage recycling, and possibly to reward communities that are actively recycling.
I honestly don't think there's any significant civil liberty issues here. In effect it's no different than a gas company monitoring the volume of gas each customer uses or a water company doing similar, it's just not been done before because up until now the technology to monitor garbage out (as opposed to the volume of a commodity going in) hasn't been available.
The Government's proposals for ID cards do cause me considerable concern so I'm not at all complacent about the matter, but presumably if we think that encouraging people to recycle is a good thing then collecting data to understand the patterns of people recycling is a helpful approach?