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Identity Thieves Steal Homes
westcoaster004 writes "Identity thieves in Canada have begun targeting the homes of their victims. Recently, several cases of mortgage and title fraud have involved identity theft; several individuals have had their houses sold without their knowledge. Ontario's land-registry system does not currently protect homeowners from such fraud, but instead favors banks, mortgage companies, and purchasers. The provincial government is however working to solve the problem."
Where people would just walk off with monuments. Truth is stranger than fiction it seems
Monstar L
The government is complicit in the crime if they are going to enforce the results of the crime, as they have apparently done in this case. The victim was correct to refer to "lawlessness."
This sig, aah-ah, is comin' like a ghost-sig...
I am glad that I live in America, where we at least retain some of the more important aspects of English common law...
Who came up with the idea that they should let someone else sell your home as long as they can successfully trick the buyer?
Whoever it was, they should be shot.
> Ontario's land-registry system does not currently protect homeowners from such fraud
Odd. If it's not yours, you can't sell it. At least, that's usually the rule.
The thing that baffles me about this fraud is who the heck buys a house without first taking a walkthrough. The guy who lives there is going to tell you what is up, perhaps strung with profanity. Heck even if it wasn't fraud the guy could be storing toxic waste in the basement for all you know.
I think the lawyers in question are responsible because they did not do the proper due diligence. Also if such a thing happens, the lawyers better have insurance against title fraud, because the original home-owner, who is now a victim can sue the lawyers, since they did not do their job properly. Also the lender itself probably can be sued for not doing their due diligence.
It was not the homeowner who got scammed, the homeowner (and the buyer) are victims, but it is the lawyers and the lenders that got scammed. And since it is their job not to get scammed, they should be made responsible.
Of-course if the system is so insecure that it is easy for the lawyers and the lenders to get scammed, then it is the government's job to fix the current problem with the victims and to secure the system.
In these cases the identity of the homeowners were stolen (there is more than one case.) Their signatures were forged, fake power of attorney were created. There should be an investigation firuging out exactly what happened, step by step and identifying the steps that made it possible for identity to be stolen. Then something should be done to fix those steps in the home buying process.
In this case I hope the Ontario government actually steps in and helps the homeowners to get their homes back, the buyers should get their downpayments back and the lenders probably will collect insurance.
You can't handle the truth.
That's a great idea!
Next, we should make people pay back the auto insurance companies when the get in an accident and total their cars! Serves them right for making a mistake!
Then all those people in New Orleans? Screw em! They should have to pay the banks back TRIPLE instead of filing homeowners claims! After all, they insisted on buying homes there, right?
In case you haven't taken my point, you've missed the entire concept of what insurance is for. People make mistakes. It happens. Even the best surgeon or lawyer can make an error that injures their patient/client/customer/whatever.
Yes, this notary was negligent. That's why he/she carries malpractice insurance: so a mistake won't make their families homeless.
Tell me, would YOU want to have a job where a mistake could cost you everything you own and 90% of what you earn for the next 20 years? We're not talking about high stakes gambling or high-risk investment here; we're talking about being a NOTARY.
Maybe when you climb down from your high horse you can tell the rest of us what it's like to be perfect. Maybe you can also tell us about how the notary making a mistake makes them more responsible than the perpetrators of the identity theft.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Nono, America is Mexico's Canada!
If someone steals your car, or robs your house of some consumer electronics, or something like that... it is one thing. But if someone steals someone elses house, which for most people represents the bulk of their life savings and what they have invested their economic future in... I wouldn't be supprised if people got very violent. People with nothing to lose are very dangerous. I wouldn't want to be the people living in a stolen house... or the lawyer or bank representative that brokered the deal. This is the perfect recipe for some sort of nasty violence. Ontario better change that law quickly.
Hmm, I'd support tossing them into a pit filled with Tarantula Hawks and Bullet Ants, then finish him off with a healthy dose of Dermestid Beetles
Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
Ah, but you forget that there are two victims here - the seller and the purchaser.
No I've not. First of all, the seller is not a victim at all. He's a crook.
As for the purchaser, it is up to him to do his due diligence by investigating the chain of title and the identity of the seller. Beyond that, buyer's title insurance is available, and EVERYONE should ALWAYS buy a buyer's title insurance policy whenever they purchase real estate (do not confuse this with the lender's policy which you will also pay for at closing).
The owner will usually have no opportunity to prevent this type of fraud. The buyer always will.
On another note, Canadian law outside of Quebec is based on English common law.
Yes, but this is one area where they have deviated from the common law in a very stupid way. The common law rule is that you do not have the power to sell something that you do not own. The only way to "steal" real estate should be through adverse possession. But that requires that someone occupy (possess) the property adversely, exclusively and openly for several years without any action taken by the rightful owner.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
I am a real estate lawyer in the US (30 years) turned computer engineer. This is not a new problem. Title transactions in America presnt the same opportunities for identity fraud. Typically, the only identity check is a driver's license and a verification that the license picture looks like the bearer and the dob is about right. The husband and his mistress, wife and the pool boy, etc. can accomplish the same thing here with a little preparation. The real property system is built on an assumption of trust, as was the Internet, which is rapidly dissapearing these days. Ultimately the defrauded title holder should recover posession of his property and the buyer should have recourse against the title insurance company.
Horseshit. There is exactly ONE "victim" here: the bank. And as such,
the bank, and only the bank, should be left holding the bag.
Analysis:
Q. Exactly what crime is being committed?
A. Fraud, which is essentially lying about finance.
Q. So who is lying, and who is being lied to?
A. The fake "owners" are doing the lying, and the
bank that issues the mortgage on the property
is being lied to.
It follows that the purchasers are not involved directly,
and as such have to be let out of their mortgage since
the deal with the bank is "give us $$ a month, and
in return you get a house". Since they don't get a
house, the deal is off. If this happens some time later,
it is the bank's responsibility to make it up to the
purchasers.
The true owners are completely uninvolved in the transaction.
The claim that the courts are siding with the purchasers is
false: it is the politically powerful banks that are being
given a free ride at the expense of the true owners.
This is government corruption, plain and simple.
"As for the purchaser, it is up to him to do his due diligence by investigating the chain of title and the identity of the seller."
Unless this was all done with cash then it is the buyers bank who "owns" the house and the sellers bank who "owned" it before it was sold (if you don't belive me then miss a few morgage payments and see what happens). If anyone is to be punished for ignoring "due dilligence" then it should be the banks. However as the summary states the law favours banks, so joe-homeowner becomes the victim even if he was dilligent in seeking settlement via a property lawyer and finance via a bank.
In other words the two victims (owner and buyer) are banks, however they are sheilded from loss by laws that allow them to pass the "due dilligence" buck to their customers.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.