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You Have Been 'Randomly' Selected?

dpbsmith asks: "One thing I've noticed is that the people who are told by the TSA that they have been 'randomly' selected for baggage inspection have a tendency not to believe it. I know one couple whose wife has been 'randomly' selected four times, while the husband never has been. The wife believes that it is because each of those times, she was traveling by herself, without checked baggage, (whereas she has never been inspected when traveling with her husband with checked baggage). In 'Uncommon Carriers', John McPhee accompanied a truck driver to write about the experience, and bought a trucker's cap to blend in. He says 'I would pay for my freedom at the Seattle-Tacoma airport when, with a one-way ticket bought the previous day, I would arrive to check in my baggage.' His baggage was 'randomly' selected for inspection, and later he was 'once again "randomly selected" for a shoes-off, belt-rolled, head-to-toe frisk.' So, what about it? Is the TSA simply flat-out lying when they tell you that you have been 'randomly selected?'" The better question to ask is: "Are random searches effective in keeping everyone safe?"

18 of 1,160 comments (clear)

  1. Profiling is worse than random searches. by Ckwop · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The better question to ask is: "Are random searches effective in keeping everyone safe?"

    There's two seperate questions here:

    • Are random searches effective, full stop?
    • Are random searches better than profile-driven searches?

    If 'enough' random searches are done then I expect they would be effective. Clearly, it is unresonable to search everybody so it's a trade-off between cost, time and hastle. The exact number of searches you conduct will depend precisely on how you way up these trade-offs. It will also depend on how much training your provide to the people conducting the searches.

    I believe that profile-driven searches are flawed. The flaw is that the attacker can always avoid the profile you're trying to detect. For example, if I profile for young Muslim men with turbans the attacker can simply pick disaffected white middle-class women. Sure, such people are hard to come by but it is fool-hardy to suggest that they do not exist.

    Profiling by race and religion flies in the face of everything we've struggled to achieve in the last century. I think it was Martin Luther King who said:

    I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

    Those words transcend race, religion and colour. We should not judge because a man reads the Koran any more than we should judge because he is Black. Muslims are not terrorists. To quote another great mind, master Yoda:

    Fear is the path of the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

    There's already a dark cloud gathering. The question is how dark can it get?

    Simon.

    1. Re:Profiling is worse than random searches. by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All terrorists have been muslims? So the Unabomber was Muslim? Timmothy McVeigh is Muslim? THe IRA are all Muslim? Those right wing christian orgs who blow up abortion sites are muslims in disguise? The Shining Path is Muslim?

      Welcome to the real real world- muslim terrorists are a small portion of all terrorists. By targetting muslims you actually reduce our security in two ways. First, you'll completely miss the non-muslim terrorists. Secondly, you give them an easy way to sneak through- hire or trick someone who isn't muslim (or does not look muslim) to do the work for them. So not only are you a bigot, you're actively comprimising the safety of the country.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    2. Re:Profiling is worse than random searches. by MindStalker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There have been plenty of animal rights terror attacks by non arabs. Both are terrorist, don't assume just because one is religious in nature that it is nessesarily a different beast.

    3. Re:Profiling is worse than random searches. by cozziewozzie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ahh, but so far all the terrorists have been Muslim.

      ETA. IRA. Ulster Unionists. Tamil Tigers. Aum Shinrikyo. RAF. Clinic bombers. Unabomber. Hate groups like Nazis attacking immigrants in some parts of Europe. KKK. FARC. Jewish Defense League.

      That's just off the top of my head.

      I think that you have a reality distortion field. It's common among racist idiots.

    4. Re:Profiling is worse than random searches. by drsmithy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I believe that profile-driven searches are flawed. The flaw is that the attacker can always avoid the profile you're trying to detect. For example, if I profile for young Muslim men with turbans the attacker can simply pick disaffected white middle-class women.

      "Profiling" - for security reasons - is generally not performed on anything close to the level of simplicity most people criticising it think it is.

      "Profiling" - performed properly - helps by directing scarce resources where they are most likely to produce a positive result.

      Suggesting that a young single woman flying out of Sweden with a round-the-world ticket is equally as likely to hijack/destroy the plane as a group of young single "middle eastern" men with one-way tickets flyng out of Saudi Arabia, is letting your idealistic bleeding-heart-leftist-stupidity get in the way of common sense.

      Not to mention, *everyone* "profiles", every day, all the time. It's impossible (not to mention stupid) not to. Some people just can't admit to it.

      Those words transcend race, religion and colour. We should not judge because a man reads the Koran any more than we should judge because he is Black. Muslims are not terrorists.

      Selecting *solely* because of skin colour I can certainly agree with, because it is both a) out of a person's control and b) utterly irrelevant to how a person behaves.

      However, the same cannot be said of religion.

      How a person behaves is strongly influenced by their culture. Unfortunately, in many parts of the world, intolerant and short-sighted religious beliefs are a significant contributor to culture.

      Skin colour (more accurately, ethnicity) is not. However, there are many areas in the world where ethnicity and culture are strongly correlated. To ignore this - or, even worse, actively deny it - is folly.

    5. Re:Profiling is worse than random searches. by sfjoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ahh, but so far all the terrorists have been Muslim.

      While everyone else piles on this bigoted response, I'd like to point out how widespread this person's misconception is. Probably the most damaging thing done by Bush and the Republicans is to play to this sort of bigotry and, in doing so, make us much less secure. Rational procedures are difficult to implement when frightened people are being goaded into acting from prejudice. A random search at airport security would be much preferable to a profile that can be easily gamed and outwitted.
      But it's always a good policy to call a bigot a bigot.

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
    6. Re:Profiling is worse than random searches. by darkmeridian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dude. Three names: Timothy McVeigh, Theodore Kaczynski, and Richard Reed. Three terrorists who would not set off your criteria. More than just bleeding heart liberalism here, just common sense. Islam is a religion, not a race or ethnicity. You start looking for brown Muslims, and they'll start sending white ones. (Remember the white guy in the Al Qaeda video released around Election Day, 2004?) If we're going to bother to make a secure system, we might as well go through the trouble of making it work for real.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    7. Re:Profiling is worse than random searches. by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Absolutely not-it is simply suggesting that if such a profile is used, any wannabe terrorist will find a young person to fly out of Sweden and make sure to purchase round-trip tickets in an attempt to duck the "profile." And probably succeed.

      Except young Swedish women aren't exactly queuing up to commit suicide via exploding aeroplane, just in case you haven't noticed.

      Suggesting that such people do not exist and such a plot would not be possible is the true folly.

      Fortunately, I am making no such suggestion. What I *am* doing, is pointing out that such a plot is _vastly_ less likely to eventuate than the aforementioned one involving a group of disaffected Muslim youths.

      As to idealistic-leftist-etc., I know many people (including several in law enforcement) from MANY backgrounds who agree profiling is ineffective and dangerous, and who don't have the slightest bit of the beliefs you listed. Surely you can make your point without name-calling or presuming about your opponents.

      I'm afraid I can't come up with any other description for people who think everyone is equally likely to be a religiously fanatical suicide bomber than "stupid".

      I'd be more than willing to bet there's *at least* as many "experts" out there who think profiling (done properly) would be affective, as there is who would disagree.

      I'll freely admit to it! However, most people (including me) profile on objective and non-bigoted criteria.

      Which is precisely what proponents of profiling are suggesting should be done.

      When history and statistics currently show that terrorists are overwhelmingly young muslim males, then focusing more attention on young muslim males is neither subjective, nor bigoted, it's mathematics.

      Also, "everyone" is not a government agent, which changes the rules 100%. I am -personally- allowed to hate black people, or women, or those with red hair, and refuse entirely to associate with or speak to them. (Note: I don't -support- this behavior in any way, I'm just noting it is allowed!) However, if I work at the DMV, and one of those people walks up to my desk, I -must- give them a driver's license if they meet the criteria for one.

      Because handing over a drivers license and letting someone onto a plane are such similar situations...

      Your criticism is based on a flawed assumption - that focusing on certain cultural and religious beliefs is done without justification, and is inherently subjective and bigoted.

      However, any profile we use will by definition be able to figure out and subvert (are 90% of the searches against Arab-looking guys? Find someone white! Or black! Are 90% of the searches against males? Find a woman!).

      Your circumvention techniques assume that suitably different people can simply be drop-in replacements. Again, I'll point out that this assumption is false.

      Therefore, statistically and psychologically, the safest way is to make sure EVERYONE knows they have a chance of getting a search, be they Grandma or Mohammed in the turban.

      What statistics are you using to support your argument that Grandma is equally as likely to be a suicide bomber as Mohammed *right now* ?

      What psychology are you using to support your argument that people prepared to commit suicide by explosion will be deterred from doing so by the possibility of being discovered before they actually board the plane ?

      Ah, you're RIGHT! You mean like white Baptists from Mississippi! We must bar them at once from boarding an airplane!

      How many white baptists from Mississippi have blown up aeroplanes lately ? How many of them are calling for - or at least condoning - the destruction of the western world ?

      Wait, did that just sound silly? I bet it did! Why? Because it's a hideously bigoted statement, but it's bigoted against those who are more like the picture of "us" (bit different flavor of Christianity, same skin color).

      No, it's stupid because it

    8. Re:Profiling is worse than random searches. by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Naturally, many of our flights are one way, so that obviously raises a flag.


      Now that I really don't understand. Who are they trying to catch, the really thick terrorists who will spend several years of their lives and invent diabolical explosive devices, etc, and then risk it all to save $400 on airfare? Surely any terrorist worth his 72 virgins can figure out that it's better to buy a round-trip ticket even if you're not planning to use the second part...

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  2. Re:Wha?!? by secolactico · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Also, there's the fact that you can't tell who's Muslim just by looking at them.

    Agreed 100%. There are muslims of pretty much all ethnic groups. It'd be the simplest thing for them to hang up a cross on their neck and stuff a bible on their pockets. Racial profiling wouldn't do much good there.

    It might be a fluke, but whenever I tried to board a plane with a 3 or 4 days beard, I was "randomly" selected for further inspection (including swabbing my luggage for drugs at the destination, go figure). Whenever I go clean shaven, I pass right thru. I havent' flown that much so, as I said, it might be a fluke.

    --
    No sig
  3. TSA = wrongheadedness gone wild by drDugan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The whole mentality behind searching people to get on a airplane promotes false security. We can't even stop weapons in our prisons, and we will NEVER be able to stop deadly weapons on airplanes.

    What we need to do is come to the realization that the ONLY way to make technically fragile public transit work is to promote an atmosphere where people do not want to attack us, instead of trying to prevent the few who do from being able to. "They" will always be able to, especially with increasingly cheap and effective technology.

    1. Re:TSA = wrongheadedness gone wild by schon · · Score: 4, Insightful
      an atmosphere where people do not want to attack us...
      This is - IMHO - means violent retribution against anyone involved, their friends, their families, their countries, their religious centers, etc.

      Are you really that stupid?

      How will that make them less likely to want to attack you? These are people who are willing to blow themselves up to prove a point. What on earth makes you think that unfounded retribution will make them hate you any less?

      All you'll end up doing is making even more people who want to attack you.
    2. Re:TSA = wrongheadedness gone wild by spike2131 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Namibia
      Nauru
      Nepal
      Netherlands Antilles
      New Caledonia
      New Zealand
      Nicaragua
      North Korea
      Northern Mariana Islands
      Norway

      Those are just the N's...

      --
      SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
  4. A game theory angle by Skippy_kangaroo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can think about it in terms of game theory.

    An important concept in game theory is the mixed strategy. That is where you randomise over certain choices because it is optimal to do so to prevent your pattern of play being anticipated and counteracted by your opponent. (Consider a game of matching pennies - you choose heads or tails and reveal it simultaneously to your opponent. If they match you win, if they don't your opponent winds. The optimal strategy is to randomly pick 50/50 heads and tails. Skillful players of games in general are ones that can a) randomise themselves properly, and b) exploit the fact that their opponents don't randomise properly)

    Thus, in the case of 'random' searches it needs to be random to ensure that the searching strategy can't be circumvented. But that doesn't mean that the odds of every given person being selected need to be the same. For example, if it is much harder for terrorists to convince mothers with young children to become scuicide bombers that means that they are less likely to do so or, completely dispasionately, if they do there will be fewer terrorist attacks because they have fewer volunteers. This would still be better than the alternative. Importantly, for the discussion here it is provably optimal to do this.

    Thus, an optimal screening strategy is random, but the probability of selection need not be uniform.

    (And a statistics aside: even though the chance that someone who flies 4 times gets selected every time would seem to be 1/10000 - if they individual odds are 1/10 - given that over 10,000 people fly, you are almost guaranteed that someone will be selected 4 times in a row.)

  5. Re:Appeasement = wrongheadedness gone wild by Jeremi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This whole "I'd like to teach the world to sing... in perfect harmony" mentality is the kind of thing that will get us killed.


    You're absolutely right, not protecting ourselves against known threats would be suicidal.


    On the other hand, doing provocative, stupid things that are guaranteed to turn otherwise friendly or neutral people into our enemies is equally suicidal.


    The whole "fuck what everybody thinks, we'll keep ourselves secure through military force alone" mentality is based on the assumption that we have the physical ability to do so. The hard truth, however, is that that simply isn't the case -- our military can barely keep the lid on Iraq, let alone any of the other 3-4 dozen countries where terrorism is a concern. Our only option is to enlist the aid of the rest of the world's governments and people in helping us stop terrorism. The good news is that that shouldn't be too difficult to do -- almost nobody likes terrorists. But to work with people (or governments), you have to treat them with respect -- in particular, you have to understand that it's a two-way street. Double-standards do not go unnoticed by the world's public.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  6. Re:Why be random when you can be EFFECTIVE? by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "If you really consider that terrorism." What the hell? Honestly, what definition of the term do you use, such that McVeigh doesn't qualify?

    The analogy from the talking head also fails to make sense, because we're not looking for the nineteen guys who executed the September 11th hijackings. We already know what happened to them, and they're beyond the reach of our justice. What we're looking for are people who might be attempting to do something similar. A less superficial analogy would have your one-armed bank robber cracking his skull open on the sidewalk as he exited the bank, and having the bank respond by demanding all people with missing limbs undergo a background check before opening a checking account.

    There are a dozen reasons why racial profiling is counterproductive. My primary objection is that it feeds the belief among many Muslims that the "War on Terror" is really a war on Islam, and as such it makes even moderate Muslims more inclined to be our enemies than our allies.

    But even if we ignore that it may be creating new potential attackers, it's ineffective at thwarting a given attack. First, there is the fact that whatever profile you select, the attackers will be able to learn how not to match the profile, even if that requires skin lightener, fake IDs, and voice training. More likely, though, the attackers would look for someone who sympathized with the cause, but didn't fit the profile. Beyond that, a focus on skin color is going to distract from more useful indicators, like behavior. Given the choice between screening the scruffy Arab and the white businessman, I'd search the one who is shaking and sweating like the proverbial whore in Sunday School.

    In the end, the best way to avoid another September 11 is not to seek out and destroy those who hate us, or to closely scrutinize every person who reminds us of someone who hated us in the past. We can't lock down the 'bad guys' to the point where the 'good guys' are completely safe, because there is no such clear distinction, and we're in danger of losing our freedom as we make the attempt. Consider that it won't be remotely possible to secure every conceivable vector of attack. If we lock down air travel, our buses are still vulnerable. If we stop everyone from buying explosives and their precursors, they can fall back on our abundant firearms. If we protect our stadiums, they can go after malls, hospitals, dams, etc. Targeted assassinations, random arson, destruction of fiber optic cables and power lines... and that's leaving out the scenarios where something manufactured abroad is snuck into the country.

    No, our best defense is to reduce the number of people who passionately hate us, and are willing to act on their anger. Killing them doesn't work--not on the scale that any reasonable person is willing to contemplate--because even the people who hate us are still people, people with families and friends who will learn hate as they watch us butcher their loved ones.

    --

    You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  7. Re:Appeasement = wrongheadedness gone wild by drDugan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How is this comment insightful? Please explain this more. I see this comment is driven by the fundamentalist, black -n- white mentality that drives most of the current insanity.

    First, you are fear mongering: using single incidents and news reports to support statements about whole nations.

    Second, you are ignoring that there is a wide and available gap between peace and appeasement.
    Our options are not just "appease" or "war" - there is a huge middle ground. It used to be called "diplomacy".

    When I say "an atmosphere where people do not want to attack us" - don't assume that only can occur because they love us - just that others don't hate us SO MUCH they are willing to die for their cause. Everyone living in peace and love would be great (but to get there we need to eliminate property entirely) - and we should shoot for that, but it's not feasible in the short term. There are lots of ways to get to the place where people don't want to attack you. It takes a LOT of fear and hate and misery to get a group of people who are so downtrodden and lost they resort to suicide bombing.

  8. Sure they can... by maillemaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >The hard truth, however, is that that simply isn't the case -- our military can barely keep the lid on Iraq, let alone any of the other 3-4 dozen countries where terrorism is a concern.

    Make no mistake: Our military is quite capable of dealing with Iraq, or just about any other nation on earth.

    The problem lies in that no one has the stomach for really turning them loose to do just that, and thanks to the speed of modern news networks, no one can get away with Dresdens or Hiroshimas anymore.

    Steve

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.