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Will Solve Captcha for Money?
alx_lo writes "Captchas are a nice idea to protect your blog or guestbook from being spammed by robots.
But what good is this protection when you can hire "data entry specialists" to solve captchas for $0.60 per hour for 50 hours a week?
Anyone here who can think up a solution that does not include drastically changing the global economy? How about captchas that require cultural background knowledge to solve?"
The cultural background idea sounds good, but that may just reduce the number of Captchas these laborers can solve in an hour. A simple internet search should be able to solve these questions. What would be a few examples of a good Captcha for Americans. You will always find a good portion of Americans that are unable to answer even the simplest.
US customs has been known to ask cultural questions at border crossings. My sister was once asked what Dan Quayle's parents did for a living after she said she lived in Indiana. This question is a bit before her time. (His parents ran a newspaper in Indiana.) This also brings into question age. My parents kill me in the original version of trivial pursuit that they play, but I win when playing the newest version.
A temporary stop gap measure might be to use the current Captchas in combination of looking at the users geolocation. I can see how this measure though would really anger free speech advocates for the third world.
How about a mathematical Captcha that cannot be solved with a calculator. Well educated foreigners will not even work for $.60. Then again, how many Americans could solve these.
quis custodiet ipsos custodes
I admin a PHPBB-based forum and the spam (from bots) was getting out of hand. They were going through the built-in CAPTCHA with no problem. The solution ended up being that I had to modify the registration form so that it wasn't just the default form. Throw a couple of oddball questions on the form, make them required, and bots can't deal with it since the bot script can't account for deviations from the norm.
Transistors and Beer!!
My team of fine Southeast Asian workers will remove spam from your web site/bulletin board/blog for a low low price of $.60 US/hour.
Incidentally, for those of you in the market to advertise your wares: My team of fine Southeast Asian workers will circumvent those inconvenient captchas on web sites/bulletin boards/blogs for a low low price of $.60 US/hour.
Here at SweatShopSoftware.com, we have a solution to every problem.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
This still hurts spammers, because spamming is otherwise pretty cheap. Once you've grabbed bots, all you have to do is upload a few hundred KB of scripts to an IRC channel. It's practically zero overhead. This adds some to the equation. Adding overhead puts smaller spammers out of business, and it's the way to win. We can't stop spam, just make it harder.
Yeah, but when the choices are Bea Arthur, Rosie O'Donnell, and Natalie Portman; selecting either of the first two should give you an electric shock on top of not allowing you to post.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
Refundable micropayments. Seriously. Require people pay $1 to post a comment, payable via paypal or whatever. Once you have checked their comment, you can add them to a whitelist that will never be charged again and refund them their $1. Spammers don't get their dollar back, don't get added to the whitelist, and have their comment removed. The result over the course of a large number of blog entries would be to significantly increase the cost of doing business for spammers, while providing only a very minor inconvenience for legitimate users.
This issue quickly runs into the same sorts of problems that copy protection on software does. People who are dedicated to breaking the system will still be able to, but normal people trying to work with the system are just getting annoyed.
It's a mild pain in the ass to match a swirled up picture of letters (I've known the alphabet for about 25 years, and I still get them wrong sometimes), but I'll usually go through it. Make it much more difficult than that, however, and I'm pretty likely to decide it's not worth it, and go waste my time on another website.
The solution to this problem is not to make the visitor do more work, because you can easily drive your visitors away by making your website a hassle. The spam needs to be filtered on the server side, or just deleted as it appears.
I've encountered this problem on my own neglected website, and I haven't found a good solution that I have the skills to implement. I generally just delete the spam as it appears, and I turn off commenting on older posts. This works for my personal site, because it's low traffic, but I'd imagine someone who gets more readers and spam could find the motivation to set up some sort of filtering, similar to email spam filters.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
I wish I had someone that could have answered the questions at the beginning of Leisure Suit Larry for me when I was 11...I would have broken open the piggy bank to play!
This is why I believe in the future there will be two Internets. The one we have now which is wild and wooly where you can remain anonymous, and one where you can't do anything without a Reputation ID that is tied to a biometric identification method (fingerprint, voiceprint, etc.). There will be third party companies like Google that have Reputation ID accounts and will handle the authentication. The Reputation ID based Interent is where eCommerce, government and medical records, etc. based web sites will live.
I hope to heaven that instead of a biometric authentication, someone can come up with a card reader for driver's licenses or some other ID method, but current events seem to indicate biometric authentication will prevail. Even in that case, I hope it is a "authenticated-user" token passing scheme so that the web site that you want to visit never knows who you are, just that you are a valid user that owns the account ID you claim to own (the Reputation ID web site acts as middleman and privacy shield, pray they are never hacked).
By the way, I don't like the thought of privacy problems and Reputation ID spoofing scenarios this implies. I just don't see any other way way to build an Internet with a high degree of trust. As I type this I am looking at the SlashDot captcha box for comments.
Robert Oschler - RobotsRule.com
I helped develop one of the largest websites in Europe (in terms of traffic and volume of content). Human spammers have been bypassing our CAPTCHA for a while now. We still keep the CAPTCHA to block most bots. The data input goes through a custom spam filter. These human spammers are trying to spread their URLs, email addresses, and phone numbers just like most spam, so this helps to a large extent. Anything that gets through that can be flagged as spam by users. On top of all that there's some human moderation by the business which owns the site.
So in the end spam filters can help but human moderation is still the only real working solution today.
Developers: We can use your help.
Match each band to the model of truck its music is eminating from:
1. Metallica
2. Billy Ray Cyrus
3. Lynnrd Skynnrd
a. GMC truck with double tires on the back
b. Primer-color El Camino with beer cans in the back
c. Shiny red F-150 with aerodynamic truckbed lid
Step into a huge movement. Don't Tread In Me.
To register, you have to be a "confident" user of a parternship website, like say ebay, paypal, amazon, yahoo, hotmail, google, etc, etc. They can proof that you are a real user, and an open api allows 1-1 relations between your accounts. If you are not registered to any of those website, you have to get X points using Folding@Home to be trusted.
Just have a human authorize every account creation. For smaller sites (the vast majority of the web) this might introduce a load of one authorization a month. As site size scales upwards, you have more people available to help with authorization. Could use the principles of the turing test to work through a 2 or 3 email exchange.
;)
Could make the supporting cgi scripts as simple or as complicated as one's willing to author. One forum I maintained for a while had a low level "all access" section where new users posted an application. Forum regulars would respond, and eventually grade the new user. If they passed, they were given full access to the board. Granted, this system was employed more to limit the quantity of asshats than spammers, but the same principles apply.
It might even benefit society in the long run as a spammer's urge to do his work forces him to develop a "true" AI.
I've visited a Japanese art site (ie pictures of characters from fighting games drawn in alarmingly extreme detail) which had roughly this on the front page:
"Because there have been some people coming in here and stealing pictures or linking without permission, I have had to put this small test up. Please enter the Emperor's birth date in Japanese calendar in the box below. I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I will remove it when they forget about this site."
I've also seen a site (again in the 'students with too much time on their hands' sector) that asked for some other date in Japanese calendar. There are also a fair few personal sites that have a front page with just one link that takes you in, and several spurious links, with the page being 100% japanese text -- which I think serves about the same purpose.
On a related note, there also used to be WinMX groups which required that you say something in Japanese on entering or be booted. The point there was that otherwise you'd get masses of Korean 12-year-olds coming in and going 'Fuk Japanese bitch! dokdo nun uri tang!!lolz0rz!' and generally spamming the place. At least, I hope they were 12.
So, cultural captchas certainly exist... but it's easy to see why they work better on 'my pictures of Vampire Hunter D' sites than in the commercial world.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
So the real problem is coming up with CAPTCHAs in real-time with no permanent (this session ID) correlation made between the image link and the answer. Then hiring "slave labor" to make this mapping for you will be completely useless.
Yes and no - That solves the problem of precreated CAPTCHAs, by throwing CPU time at it, but the FP's complaint doesn't actually involve what CAPTCHAs solve.
CAPTCHAs, if effective (which a market for human solvers suggests), only prove that a human has responded. If a human solves it for pay on behalf of a spammer - The CAPTCHA worked perfectly. Virtually every suggestion on this topic has missed that key point. Using culturally-dependant information, or judgements of aesthetics, or awkwardly-phrased audio clips, or even time-wasting math problems, all still just prove that a human answered the question.
The real problem here involves the misuse of CAPTCHAs by those who assume they do something which they don't. They don't weed out "undesireables". They weed out non-humans. It really doesn't matter how complex you make them; if a human can solve it, you still have the same underlying flaw - Namely, that we have a HUMAN enemy in this battle.
Instead, we need to exploit a human vulnerability - Mortality. We need to hunt down spammers and kill them, slowly and painfully. We need to torture their wives and kids in front of them, then string the lot of 'em up in town squares as an example to others. We then need to hunt down all the companies funding these spammers as a form of advertising and castrate their boards of directors.
Or better yet, we need to trick them into running P2P nodes and let them and the RIAA weaken each other to the point that we can easily eliminate the winner.
For each client, send a series of captchas: "solving" "captchas" "formoney?" "one" "thousand" "usdollar" "reward" "for-arrest" "of-your" "employer".