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Thursday at the Austin Game Conference

Much talk yesterday in Austin centered around Rob Pardo's keynote, but there were several other events you might be interested in. Dell Chairman Michael Dell talked about that company's gaming plans in a 'fireside' chat. Movie producer Jon Landau spoke on the role of gaming in the entertainment industry. Gamasutra has several pieces from smaller talks, with titles like The Death of Cinematics, New Models for Game Stories, and Writing for Digital Actors. Finally, Raph Koster offers an ultimatum to the games business: evolve or die. From that article: "The end result, according to Koster, is the current hit-driven state of the game industry, which focus on the top 20 percent of games. 'The particular adaptation that we've made to this is to not bother making or stocking or selling the other 80 percent,' Koster said. 'So when you walk into your friendly neighborhood GameStop, you won't find the game that is 21 on the charts. Because of limited shelf space, they just don't want it around. It's just not worth having it compared to game number 20 twice, or better yet, The Sims and all of its expansions.'"

33 comments

  1. Game stories! by andrewman327 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I read the article about new game stories. I believe that there is a definite need for better storylines in games. It seems that the industry is hellbent on finding that "next big thing" that works and beating it into the ground. A good example is GTA genre of urban games.


    From TFA:

    Sutherland suggests game writers concentrate on allowing players to make more choices and more important choices. He says writing has always been about choice, whether we take our inspiration from Dostoyevsky or the Surreal Life. We need to be open to inspiration where it comes from, and choice of any kind has conflict inherent in it. This will help connect the game with people. He also suggested avoiding formulas when approaching game writing. This includes avoiding laundry lists of dramatic requirements. He says formulas from other media especially don't translate directly, and the art form of games is so new experimentation is critical just to find the boundaries of possibilities. It's the only way we'll know what works and what doesn't.
    This is what gamers have always wanted. D&D had the ultimate in user selection and gamers loved it. The industry needs to learn that pretty graphics are not the only way to sell games and are, in fact, usually not the most important element.
    --
    Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
    1. Re:Game stories! by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      I think the problem is that it's easy to improve the graphical aspects in a game, whereas it's difficult to make a good story, and with multiple paths it becomes even more difficult. Now that graphics is starting to pay out decreasing dividends in sales, I hope developers will start to put more effort into AI and procedural content generation, that should make it a lot easier to make dynamic stories.

    2. Re:Game stories! by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That kind of reminds me of an idea I've been wanting to explore in simpler games I write. (This has to do with storylines.) I want a game where, as much as possible, it prevents you from being able to "send information back in time" so to speak. (I prefer the term "causal game".) In most games, you can exploit your advance knowledge of where stuff is and who will betray you when. In a causal game, the internal logic wouldn't even determine that stuff until it either happens, or you observe evidence that it will happen.

      (Simple example: if there's treasure hidden somewhere, its location won't be assigned at all. You will have a small chance of finding it wherever you dig. If you unsuccessfully dig, it "collapses the probability bubble", for lack of a better term, and makes it so the only possible location is somewhere else. Also, if someone tells you where it is, the game then "decides" that it is now there, and nowhere else -- but that information won't be useful in other playthroughs or even if you reload without saving!)

      With plot elements, the game would not set the story so that character X betrays you until it happens. Its probability of happening would be partly determined by whether you have observed evidence it is likely to happen.

      This certainly involves a break from reality in some respects. In the real world, treasure is where it is. Your knowledge has no impact on that. The world doesn't disappear while your eyes are closed. However, causal games would be *more* realistic in that, as you live your daily live, you can only base decisions on what you know. This kind of game would force you to endure the real uncertainty you face in everyday life by making "acting without knowledge" just as dangerous as it is in real life.

      And, of course, have great replay value ;-)

    3. Re:Game stories! by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Umm, random generate stuff when you start the game?
      Civilization could do that, and you had to re-discover the world with each new game. I think this is the easiest way to generate the replay value you look for.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    4. Re:Game stories! by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

      If I understand you correctly, my idea is slightly different. As you've described it, you can start a new game, save, explore the world, and then reload and re-do your game with knowledge of the world's geography in advance. In my idea, it wouldn't definitely determine any of that stuff until you actually saw it. Think "Shrodinger's cat".

    5. Re:Game stories! by regular_gonzalez · · Score: 1

      So, Solitaire and Minesweeper then?

      --
      Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am master of my fate and captain of my soul.
    6. Re:Game stories! by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Yes, by going back to an earlier save you can get around the random world generation in CIV (which is optional anyway, you can play on the fixed "real" map of Earth if you like).
      But that never bothered me because I consider the above cheating anyway. If a campaing goes sour, I'd rather abort it and start a completely new one.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
  2. Natural selection. by KillerBeeze · · Score: 1

    Natural selection in the gaming industry is it really new???

    1. Re:Natural selection. by Thansal · · Score: 1

      Nope, Natural Selection has been around for about 5 years now (though it is pressumed dead at the moment)

      http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/

      --
      Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
  3. "Evolve of die" - spare me by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1
    What a load of recycled crap this Raph Koster guy has spouted.

    He's rehashing that dusty old argument about only 'AAA' titles finding shelf space. About how the industry must wake up from some kind of self-imposed creative coma. Woe, woe unto us.

    Y'know I'm really tired of that line of thought. Its completely useless criticism. And its been around since the 'dark years' of the late 80s, when video games were really in a funk. He even uses a - get this - dinosaur extinction metaphor. Yawn. Nothing new to see here, move along.

    Meanwhile, in the midst of all this industry atrophy, games like Okami quietly appear and fulfill the promise.

    I've often said that the game industry of 2006 is akin to the film industry of 1926; i.e. we have a long way to go. We're developing a consistent 'language' (to use the film term again) and the auteurs are making their marks. But the studios say its expensive! Programming a multicore Cell or PowerPC CPU is hard!

    "How are we ever going to record audio and filmed images in sync?? Do audiences even want 'talkies'? Where are we going to find the money?"

    Its just nothing new. The only thing that surprises me are that dorks like Raph get anyone to listen to them.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    1. Re:"Evolve of die" - spare me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but he absolutely has a point. He exaggerates it significantly by saying that only the top 20 are on the shelves. But how well has Okami sold? I remember seeing that Katamari Damacy didn't even break 200k sales. If you look at the top 100 games sold in 2005, you'll find around 5 of them that were not either a sequel or based on licensed material (Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc.). Yes, some unique and great games are being made, but developers are being discouraged from doing so because the gaming public is not buying them.

    2. Re:"Evolve of die" - spare me by kamapuaa · · Score: 1
      Speaking of silly cliches that don't really work, why bring up the video game - cinema comparison?

      And why bring up the specter of out-of-touch studio bosses, when really that has nothing to do with what the article, or this discussion, or your point, is all about?

      Anyway, video games gave been going strong for 25 or 30 years now, and are still a whole lot more like pinball than cinema.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    3. Re:"Evolve of die" - spare me by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1
      Speaking of silly cliches that don't really work, why bring up the video game - cinema comparison?

      It should be self-evident, but I think it does work. Tell me why you think it doesn't.

      And why bring up the specter of out-of-touch studio bosses, when really that has nothing to do with what the article, or this discussion, or your point, is all about?

      From TFA's write-up: "Finally, Raph Koster offers an ultimatum to the games business: evolve or die. From that article..."

      Miss that part?

      Anyway, video games gave been going strong for 25 or 30 years now, and are still a whole lot more like pinball than cinema.

      Kind of a tautology, isn't it? Pinball games are an iteration of 'arcade games' which spawned the home video game industry. Besides, pinball - of which I am a fan - hardly had the same kind of success.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    4. Re:"Evolve of die" - spare me by ElleyKitten · · Score: 1
      Anyway, video games gave been going strong for 25 or 30 years now, and are still a whole lot more like pinball than cinema.
      Ever play Final Fantasy X? Can you really say that FFX is more like pinball than like a movie?
      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
    5. Re:"Evolve of die" - spare me by kafka47 · · Score: 1

      I can accept that "this type of talk" is a cliche to you. Yes, we've heard the very loud complaints about innovation before. We'll probably hear it again. And I'm with you on this. I'm honestly sick of hearing it, and the WalMart shoppers just aren't interested.

      The only trouble is, I honestly don't think we were hearing it here. I don't think that it was the emotional rant about "AAA" that you're ascribing to it. It seems to me that it was more a product of an inductive observation about where the industry is, and where it's going to go. The dinosaur piece is a throwaway to give the talk a bit of colour.

      I didn't get that he was lamenting a dearth of creativity in the industry. What I got was a realistic appraisal of bigger and bigger (and bigger and bigger and bigger) game budgets, largely funneled into hand-crafted content creation. This is a totally logical and factual truth, not a rant. From this situation, fewer so-called mainstream products are produced by fewer players whose products begin to look a bit cookie-cutter. The innovation is reduced to a game of incrementals, and the dance they do is to convince you that the "next one is really much, much better".

      So the rest of the industry will circumvent these bigger players, flowing to the left and right around the "big rocks" that constrict the flow.

      How? Online distribution, procedural content, lo-fi mmorpgs, aggregated content... :-)

      I'll definitely agree with you about the early film analogy. We're in the stone age in terms of games, and I strongly believe we're on the cusp of a literal explosion in gaming applications into all manner of devices, applications, platforms and media.

      ./covert.c.

    6. Re:"Evolve of die" - spare me by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      God forbid he ever play a Xenosaga or Metal Gear Solid game!

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
  4. evolve or die? by dlc3007 · · Score: 1

    Maybe he should look at SW:G for a moment. That would be a fine example of "evolve and die". Evolution for the no other reason than to do something different != good.

    1. Re:evolve or die? by Thansal · · Score: 1

      well, in the case of SW:G they didn't evovle into sometihng new and different. They changed from something rather unique, into the sameol' sameol'.

      However, I do agree with you, Being different for the sake of being different is NOT good. However, being different becasue it is FUN (and not just gimmiky) is VERY important. As people have pointed out there are alot of interesting games out there, some make it, some don't.

      For examples look at:
      Okami(SP?)
      Savage (fun game, not the first FPS/RTS hybrid, but fun, even if it tanked)
      Trauma Center (DS game)

      Ok, my mind is drawing blanks atm, but there are others.

      --
      Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
  5. The future of gaming by alvinrod · · Score: 1

    In response to what Koster had to say, I think that over the next few generations of consoles, things will radically change.

    First of all, the Nintendo Wii and DS have tried some out of the box approaches to gaming that have opened up new and different ways for games to be played. I'm not saying that the current ways are terrible and obsolete or that they should be done away with, but it is nice to have something new to try every once and a while. If the Nintendo Wii is a huge success, I think that we can expect next generation Sony and Microsoft consoles to include something similar. Sony and Microsoft each have an Eye Toy that also opens up a few new areas, but it seems somewhat unpopular and underdeveloped for. I'd say there are a lot of new ideas coming out, but the market is currently in a process of chosing the best and weeding out the bad ones. There's still plenty of room for evolution though.

    Additionally, there was mention a while back by one of the Sony bigwigs that the PS4 might not even use a disc drive, but would download games to a hard drive from an online download service. This is probably the last thing that gaming stores want, but it does remove some of the problems that Koster talked about. Because these stores have limited floor space, they can't physically put every game for every console out there and advertise the hell out of it like they do for A-list titles or highly anticipated games. An online download service doesn't have the problem of shelf-space and could borrow features seen in other online stores such as iTunes or Amazon where people who buy one particular game could be pointed to another that they might like. I'm sure that something like this might help the bottom 80% of games sell better, especially if the game price can be reduced if the game studio doesn't need to pay a publisher to press discs for them. Also consider that the cost of shipping the discs as well as any store mark-up can be removed. The only added costs are running the online store and paying for the bandwidth for downloads. I think it would be cheaper to do it online.

    I'd have to say that the gaming industry is in fairly good health. Some consumers might be turned off by the higher prices of the Xbox 360 or PS3, but Nintendo is offering a low cost machine. If people don't like outdated graphics of the Wii, they can get a PS3. If they want a great online experience, get an Xbox 360 and play online with Live. There's plenty of choice out there for consumers. I'd be more worried if all three companies had offerings that were almost the same. A lot of what I wrote about is a few years down the road, but I think the industry is in a good enough position to weather any storms until that time.

    1. Re:The future of gaming by jizziknight · · Score: 1
      outdated graphics of the Wii
      What? Outdated because it's not ZOMGHD? Pfft.

      Also, I don't know about most people, but I'd still rather have the physical media in my hand. I'm all for having the online store, but give me a choice of downloading it or having it shipped to me. I don't want to have all my games on a HDD just to have it crash or demagnetize years down the road and lose everything. Let's also consider the fact that some devs are complaining about disk space, that Blu Ray offers them the space they need. Is anyone really going to want to wait while they download a 30GB game (Yes, I know the argument about having it download the first bit of the game, and let you start playing while it downloads the rest)? I know I don't. Having it overnighted through the mail would be just as fast. Also, paying for the bandwidth for hundreds of thousands of people to download multiple 30GB games probably is not as cheap as one would think. If the next generation of consoles dumps the physical media, I'll be sitting that round out.
      --
      Everything I say is a lie. Except that... and that... and that, and that, and that, and that... and that.
    2. Re:The future of gaming by ElleyKitten · · Score: 1

      I think downloadable games (like Steam) is a interesting new direction for PC games to go in, but I don't like it for consoles. I guess downloading Zuma or something (I don't have a 360) is kinda cool when you're bored (though can't you get all those games for free on a PC?), but I'll take my full-length RPGs in a box with a manual, thank you, and skip the download wait and futzing around getting wifi (or long obnoxious cables) to my consoles. I also don't want, when I switch my consle because it broke/there's a shiney new redesign/the new one is backwards-compatible, to have to worry about transferring all my old games to it. Consoles are supposes to be simple, put in game and go. Anything else is a PC, and would be better played on a PC.

      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
  6. On limited shelf space by mmalove · · Score: 1

    "Because of limited shelf space, they just don't want it (number 21) around. It's just not worth having it compared to game number 20 twice, or better yet, The Sims and all of its expansions"

    I used to love going to Babbages/Gamestop/Best Buy and seeing some 80-120 games available to choose from. Part of the experience was the selection, seeing all the innovative things out there, and choosing from them. Now that you're down to just the top dog hits, it's not as fun.

    So anymore, I just browse the game reviews. Thing is, I rarely go buy what I read reviews about. The impulse buy just isn't there. I think the gaming companies (or more accurately, their distributors) have really missed that.

    --
    You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
    1. Re:On limited shelf space by BeeBeard · · Score: 1

      That still goes on...but keep in mind that these days, the boutique showroom has been replaced by sites like gamespot (when it's not posting articles by people describing the "no duh" obvious future of gaming). You can read reviews, check out screenshots, and basically just get an idea of what a game is about before you buy, and maybe somewhere amidst doing all that, you see a link to another game you hadn't even heard about...you follow it and now you're checking out *another* game. Buying doesn't even have to involve travel, it's just a couple of clicks away on amazon (or whereever) and the game is shipped out to you within days. All this talk about "shelf space" is awfully quaint, particularly in an age when almost anything can be shipped to you anyway, and the things you're buying are taken off pallettes in a warehouse, or in many cases you're just downloading the material anyway (like with Steam).

      I was a little disappointed with Koster's presentation. Anybody who has had their ear to the ground for at least the last 5 years would know that the game industry has been changing. Of course it's a competitive marketplace. Of course there's always a fight over publisher's money. You know, I'm sure a lot of good movies don't get made, and good books don't get published for the same reason. It's a shame, but it's also a function of competition in a consumer-driven market. Oh, of course people can download content--that's been the case since the days of BBS's--remember the days of shareware? Now the file sizes are bigger, the delivery mechanisms are more sophisticated, but things have changed HOW again?

      Anyways, I was the guy trying desperately not to nod off.

  7. the entertainment industry is the problem by grapeape · · Score: 1

    IMHO the biggest problem affecting gaming now isnt storyline its spiraling costs, unecessary costs at that. I realize that the bigwigs at EA and others desperately want to rub elbows with the Tommy Meola's and Steven Speilbergs of the world but they have created an alternate reality for themselves where they are big time entertainment producers. Most of the free world couldnt really care less if the character of bobo the chimp in urban slaughter 6 is voiced by Ben Affleck. The gaming industry keeps promising more and delivering less all while whining that its tooo expensive to make truly innovative and creative titles.

    How bout this, scrap the voices, drop the 4 hours of cinematics that everyone skips over anyway, hire some folks off the street or better yet (gasp!) your own staff to do the voices if they are really needed and concentrate on making something thats actually fun to play. You will save a fortune and probably sell the same amount if not more than the overly licensed crap you usually shovel at us.

    1. Re:the entertainment industry is the problem by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      Oh, THAT's a great idea! Scrap all your seasoned actors, and give the voice-acting rolls over to a bunch of geeks, sounds like a perfect concept to me! Seriously though, that's basically where our music industry is right now. Have some big producers write some hit tunes, and then just hire some wannabe's off the street (*caugh* Brittany Spears *caugh*), and it'll sound "more authentic". Bullshit. People off the street, or people who have no artistic vision or talent are just puppets... and if you want authenticity, let alone GOOD results, you need people who can think for themselves. Now, I agree that using Hollywood stars is kind of a waste for voiceacting, but there are a hell of a lot of out-of-work actors out there, scrambling to get work, some of them VERY GOOD, and many of them with better voices suited for the medium than motion picture actors. I've done my part voice-acting, and it's no walk in the park. Someone with a bit of miked vocal experience along with some dramatic expertises is prefered.

      I work as a TV producer, and I use a lot of our staff as voice-over actors. Now, their usually just simple narrations, with little dramatic content, so many times I can turn to less-trained staff, and coach them through their parts, but any time I want even the slightest bit of emotion, we have quite a few actors, so I'll grab one of them, or I'll do it myself, since I have quite a bit of dramatic acting experience as well. I've seen what happens when you give voice-acing "rolls" to people off the street, and they bug out, or aren't able to get into the part.

      Also, why scrap cinematics? I LOVE the cinematic aspect of video games, so do a lot of people. There is no such thing as an "interactive movie" genre in our culture yet, so video games is the closest thing we've got. Just because YOU don't like cinematics in games doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't as well. Sure, I feel that some games go overboard, like the Xenosaga series, or Metal Gear Solid 2/3, but other people love that aspect. I love cinematics, myself, although I'd like to see it more combined into the gameplay. Skies of Arcadia is an incredibly cinematic game, though the cut scenes are few and far between.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    2. Re:the entertainment industry is the problem by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 1

      or better yet (gasp!) your own staff to do the voices if they are really needed

      Actually, that would be a pretty bad idea. This was common practice a couple of years ago and voices in games REALLY REALLY sucked. That said, there is no need to hire Ben Affleck if you can get an entire crew of professional voice actors for the same amount of cash.

      And personally, I would prefer a game with the tagline "NOT voiced by Ben Affleck" over the opposite any day.

    3. Re:the entertainment industry is the problem by grapeape · · Score: 1

      Actually skies of arcadia is a perfect example of what I would like to see more of, yes its incredibly cinematic...but that is done through actual game play. My problem is the 30 minutes of video to 5 minutes of gaming ratio that seems to be becoming more and more commonplace on newer games.

      I agree that voice talent actually has to be listenable, my problem with that is overpaid "endorsement" type voices, who cares if batman the video game really is voiced by Tim Daly or Heath Ledger? I exagerated a bit when I said use your own staff, but half the time the focus seems to be so much on the voices and cut scenes that very little regard is given to whether the game is actually fun to play. Thats why the DS is stomping the PSP right now, the PSP has had lots of pretty games with beautiful cut scenes but had fallen short in the gameplay department (they are admittedly getting better finally). Look at any top 10 list of favorite all time video games hell top 100 for that matter and count the ones that relied on big name voices or excessive cut scenes...you will be hard pressed to use up all your fingers counting.

  8. Later that weekend at the Austin Game Conference by BeeBeard · · Score: 1

    Attendee 1: "What's all that yelling outside?"

    Attendee 2: "I don't know, but do you hear those horns honking?!"

    Attendee 1: "Yes, it's almost like they're trying to celebrate something. But what...what could it be?"

    Attendee 2: "I have no idea. Anyways, let's get back to focusing on how this talking head says we'll all be jobless soon."

  9. Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He brought his laptop for this "fireside chat."

  10. Re:Later that weekend at the Austin Game Conferenc by tomservo84 · · Score: 1

    Uhhh....am I the only one who thought "WTF?" after reading the above?

    --
    Agile Spaceport - You will never find a more wretched hive of scrum and villainy. We must be cautious.
  11. Re:Later that weekend at the Austin Game Conferenc by BeeBeard · · Score: 1

    http://www.texassports.com/

    The upcoming UT - OSU game is a really, really, really big deal in Austin and (if ESPN coverage of it is to be believed) nationwide as well.

  12. OT: Okami and cel shading by the_arrow · · Score: 1

    This is something I really wonder about, but when The Legend of Zelda: Wind waker came, everyone was (and many still are) saying that it was too bad the game was cel-shaded. Now comes a new game with cel-shading, and I haven't heard anyone saying anything about it.
    Strange....

    --
    / The Arrow
    "How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
    1. Re:OT: Okami and cel shading by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      I think that many people were offended because Nintendo exposed the Zelda series for what it was, an excersize in innocents, along the lines of Mihazaki, classic Disney, or Pixar. Not that there's anything wrong with that, in fact, I rate some Mihazaki and Pixar films as being some of the best films ever made. But for young boys between the ages of 13 and 19, it's a threat to their masculinity and supposed maturity. Later on, you really grow up and realize that there's nothing immature about these things, in fact, it's incredibly immature to feel threatened by them, but alas, many still do. I loved the style of Wind Waker... however ,the game itself left something to be desired, especially compared to Majora's Mask or Ocarina of Time, but it was wonderful none-the-less. For some reason, though, I wasn't all that interested in the character design, I really didn't feel like I "connected" quite as much with the WW Link as I did with OoT/MM Link, not quite sure why, though.

      Although, when you make a cell-shaded game in a style that goes along with more adolecent-aimed things, like bloody comic books (ie: "XIII"), you suddenly get a bunch of kids yelling "hey cool, that looks like a comic book!"

      There are MANY great cell-shaded games out there, though: Dragon Quest XIII, Wild Arms 3, (which pioneered cell-shading), and Tales of Symphonia, just to name a few. The form definitely has its place, for one thing, it's able to completely throw off any notion of "attempting" to look photo-realistic. Tales of Symphonia, for example, is one of the most graphically perfect game. There is no sense of graphics being too simple, it seemed to be everything it attempted to be. Many PS2 games fell short because they were attempting to achieve photo-realism in an era where photo-realism (still) isn't quite there yet.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.