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Programmed Sentencing in China

An anonymous reader writes to mention a unique combination of coding and social justice. A court in China has been using software to mete out sentences in criminal cases. The program has been in use for almost two years, and has passed judgement in some 1,500 cases. From the article: "'The software can avoid abuse of discretionary power of judges as a result of corruption or insufficient training,' the paper quoted Zichuan District Court chief judge, Wang Hongmei, as saying. But some Chinese newspapers criticized the move as a farce that highlighted the 'laziness of the court' and that would not curb judicial corruption as touted."

24 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. Forever Loop? by Average_Joe_Sixpack · · Score: 5, Funny

    Would that be the same as a life sentence?

    1. Re:Forever Loop? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      In communist China, the computer hangs you!

  2. Yay human rights! by TJ_Phazerhacki · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I for one fear our new robotic sentencing overlords. Seriously, this is rediculous - why not have a better judicial monitoring system if you care about the people?

    Oh wait....

    --
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    1. Re:Yay human rights! by TopShelf · · Score: 4, Insightful
      From TFA:
      Despite campaigns to reform China's courts, judicial abuses, official influence and arbitrary sentencing remain a widespread concern, particularly in lower courts where many judges have not even been to law school.


      It sounds like this can be a tool to help standardize the application of the law, which varies widely from place to place. That's a step in the right direction. No, it's not going to result in a "perfect" legal system, but it could help improve things.
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    2. Re:Yay human rights! by timeOday · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, wait a minute... what is law in the first place, if not a "procedure" for judging real-life situations and doling out punishment? In the good old days, King David would solve problems creatively, e.g. proposing to cut a baby in half if two women claimed to be the mother. But now we have laws, which are supposed to reduce justice to following a set of steps. No current computer technology could hear out complex arguments and decide whether to render a "not guilty" verdict, but sentencing seems simpler yet more arbitrary, so perhaps a "jail calculator" isn't such a terrible idea. I know I wouldn't want to be sentenced by a judge who had a fight with his wife that morning.

    3. Re:Yay human rights! by Braino420 · · Score: 2, Informative
      In the good old days, King David would solve problems creatively, e.g. proposing to cut a baby in half if two women claimed to be the mother.
      That should actually be attributed to his son; King Solomon. The wise one...
      --
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  3. Sentencing Methodology by mordors9 · · Score: 4, Funny

    My understanding is this method won out over the Magic 8 ball or picking a fortune cooke out of a hat.

  4. Re:In other news... by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
    > Chinese newspapers shut down by government.

    ...but Chinese hackers and copyright infringers released after paying court-software-mandated fines of $0.01 and serving 1337 seconds in jail.

    Cloud, silver lining, and all that.

  5. Moo by Chacham · · Score: 5, Funny

    while (thereAreCases()) {
      defendant = defendant.getNext();
      defendant.innocent = (defendant.powerful || defendant.powerful);
      if (!defendant.innocent) firingSquad.add(defendant);
      else firingSquad.add(prosecutor);
    }

  6. No Whammies!!!! by dave562 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I just had this visual of this poor Chinese guy surrounded by a bunch of blinking screens, his hand hovering over a big red button, praying, "No whammies, no whammies!!"

  7. now thats what I call by ptr2004 · · Score: 5, Funny

    a KILLER APP

    1. Re:now thats what I call by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now that's what i call an executable!

  8. Sounds Insane: by Visaris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find this idea very scary...

    We live in a world where we are all criminals. Don't think you break any laws? Think again. Everyone who is old enough to read this post has broken many laws in their life, even if they were minor laws.

    When you live in a world where everyone is a criminal, the idea of a computer judge is very scary. The computer will not be able to make common sense decisions about what needs to be done to arrive at the judgement that is best for everyone.

    In a world with imperfect laws, enforcing the laws perfectly is immoral, unjust, and IMHO, just insane.

    'There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with'.
    - Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"

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    1. Re:Sounds Insane: by Rice-Pudding · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uhhh... no, everyone is not a criminal. That is why we have a difference between criminal and civil (torte?) law.

  9. The MS version by apillowofclouds · · Score: 5, Funny

    "It looks like you're trying to sentence someone. Would you like some help?"

  10. Not perfect, but a step in the right direction by MalleusEBHC · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It would be good to come up with (and make public) an algorithm for determining a sentence. It shouldn't automatically be entered as the official sentence, but then a judge would have a good baseline to go off of. If the judge wanted to make a significant increase or decrease to the sentence, they would need to demonstrate the extenuating circumstances. An added bonus is that there would be a quantitative metric for determining how judges are performing.

    Of course, the toughest part is creating a fair algorithm. But hey, in theory it has got potential.

    1. Re:Not perfect, but a step in the right direction by mobby_6kl · · Score: 2, Funny

      >It would be good to come up with (and make public) an algorithm for determining a sentence.

      Here's a prototype:

      perl -e "$s = int(rand(99)); print qq(You are hereby sentenced to $s years of imprisonment\n)"

      This code is released under the BSD license, feel free to deploy it as-is or modify to fit your needs.

    2. Re:Not perfect, but a step in the right direction by Atmchicago · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Using a computer algorithm to determine sentences is ridiculous. No two cases are the same, which means that there are an incredible number of variables. Furthermore, even if we could isolate all the variables, we still would have no idea how to make an algorithm that would take them all into account.

      --

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    3. Re:Not perfect, but a step in the right direction by bunions · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You can say the same things about medical diagnoses - and yet, decision support software for doctors is used quite often.

      It's a guide and a method to keep tabs on the judicial record. I view it with cautious optimism.

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    4. Re:Not perfect, but a step in the right direction by dbcad7 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      True that no two cases the same, but we are talking about sentencing

      crime.. stealing a candy bar..
      perp 1 is well off buisnessman
      perp 2 is starving homeless man
      perp 3 is bug-eyed dope-feind
      perp 4 is diabetic
      perp 5 says he just forgot to pay

      Should any of these people receive a different punishment for their crime than the others got ?
      And how should the others feel if their punishment more severe ?

      Then throw in the mix different judges..
      judge 1 just had his car stolen
      judge 2 has a relative who is on drugs, hates drug addicts
      judge 3 just received major funds from local buisness for his relection campaign
      judge 4 partied last night, has a major hangover
      judge 5 just sentenced another person to 15 years for a real crime.. candy theft is nothing.
      judge 6 has had his reelection opponent declare him "soft" on crime

      I think some "standards" to sentencing would be a good thing.

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  11. In communist china by Ravear · · Score: 4, Funny

    the software comments yuo out!

  12. We already do this in the U.S.... by Dekortage · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...but we call it electronic voting. The sentences have much bigger consequences, but are revised every four years.

    (tongue firmly planted in cheek!)

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  13. A similar system in the Netherlands by wfberg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A similar system has been in use in the Netherlands for some time. Not for judges, but for prosecutors. Most laws state e.g. that if you're guilty you "shalle be imprisoned for no longer than 10 years". Now, those maximum sentences are only applied if you've been a real asshole. If there are mitigating circumstances, you can expect some leniency. For example; you have no history of criminal behavior, you were provoked, etc. Those circumstances don't influence culpability, but they can influence sentencing.

    To help prosecutors in demanding a punishment that fits the crime, and more importantly to have prosecutors demand the same punishment in similar cases, regardless of jurisdiction, there's a piece of software to help them out. Just enter the specifics of the case, and the software will work out the sentence you should ask for based on a) guidelines given out by the national government, and b) comparisons to similar cases from a historical database.

    Now, the software just comes up with a suggestion, so the prosecutor can still say "well, in similar cases people have gotten 6 years in jail, but this guy's a real asshole based on characteristics I can't fill in on these forms, so he deserves to raise the average". Or the prosecutor can decide to stay on the lenient side. Whichever way though, if there's a discrepency from guidelines+case law, he'll have to explain it.

    Now, ultimately, it's still in the judge's hands. The judge may attach greater weight to certain mitigating circumstances, and less to others, and come up with a different sentence. But the judge is also aware of the guidelines and statistics.

    The reason for such a system is to increase the dependability of the judicial system. If two people commit the same crime, in the same manner, for the same reasons, and in the same circumstances, they should get the same punishment; justice, after all, should be blind.

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  14. Ah no.... by woolio · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How would the punishment of theft be related to the amount stolen?

    linear?
    quadratic?
    logarihtmic?

    If shoplifting a $20 "X" is a crime, when what about a CEO embezzling 100s of millions?

    Firing squad for the whole family? Execution by worms?

    Or what about murder? Even accidents involving negligence are punished... How should an army captain be punished? Or a police capatin?