GoDaddy Caves To Irish Legal Threat

crush writes, "An Irish website RateYourSolicitor.com, which aims to let clients find and rate solicitors (a British Isles flavor of lawyer), has received an Irish High Court injunction to remove defamatory material about one such rated solicitor. The site is hosted by a US provider, gmax.net, which has reportedly been served notice by lawyers acting for the defamed solicitor. According to the article, GoDaddy, as the domain name registrar, has locked access to the site (registration or bugmenot required). (Amusingly, the records are all for a 'John Smith' in the Russian Federation at 'lawyercatcher@lawyer.com'!) An interesting twist to all of this is that according to the Communications Decency Act, an ISP, as a publisher, cannot be held responsible or legally liable for what their clients do. So how can GoDaddy justify this censorship? Or are registrars the weak link in a system that seems like it ought to be robust against censorship?"

Comments

Maybe not censorship?

[CRCulver]

Perhaps GoDaddy is blocking them not out of pure censorship, but because this scandal has revealed that one of the domains they manage doesn't have correct WHOIS information, which many registrars require in the TOS?

Censorship by any other name...

[schwaang]

A broadly-worded TOS is the way that ISPs in countries like America perform censorship.

We ostensibly have freedom of speech, and don't legally ban things like hate speech as they do in France, for example. Instead we use our corporations to enforce the same kinds of restrictions against "offensive content" and such.

In this case, GoDaddy's TOS includes this gem:

Go Daddy reserves the right to terminate Services if Your usage of the Services results in, or is the subject of, legal action or threatened legal action, against Go Daddy or any of its affiliates or partners, without consideration for whether such legal action or threatened legal action is eventually determined to be with or without merit.

So any jackass could shut you down by threatening to sue GoDaddy. Niiiice.

"Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one."

[TOS = "Terms of Service", you know -- the huge page of small print that you scroll past in order to click the "I agree" button.]

Re:Censorship by any other name...

[westlake]

So any jackass could shut you down by threatening to sue GoDaddy. Niiiice.

So find yourself another host. One with pockets so deep they don't have to worry about limiting their exposure. Good luck on that one.

Re:Censorship by any other name...

[Tanktalus]

Side note: "your" freedom of speech is one predicated on government involvement. Specifically, the lack therein. It does not, however, compel a newspaper to print your article or letter to the editor. It merely prevents the government (in theory) deciding for the newspaper that it won't. The newspaper is still free to deny your article for any reason, whether trivial (it spelled "its" wrong) or conspiratorial ("for the common good").

Similarly, ISPs are free to restrict who gets to use their service. (Of course, there are other repercussions here - if they take an overtly active role in this, for example, they lose common-carrier status, and thus become liable for everything, where "overtly" and "active" are loosely defined based on case law.) If GoDaddy doesn't want to provide service to pornographers or spammers, that's their business. If GoDaddy has a weak stomach for lawsuits, that, too, is their business. However, even if they do have a strong stomach for lawsuits, their TOS says that they reserve the right to make decisions to terminate service unilaterally based on their perception of the lawsuit. The "with or without merit" part is simply a cover-your-ass statement that says that you and they could even disagree about the winnability of a lawsuit, but they still get to make the call. That's there just because someone got sued at some point in the past for doing something like capitulating over what turned out to be nothing, I'm sure.

So, please. Do not bring up freedom of speech. Your constitutional amendment to that effect is irrelevant. At least to this situation.

(Disclaimer: nothing in here says you are wrong for disliking GoDaddy. Just as you're free to express your view, I am mine. I'm not preventing you from blaming free speech - just trying to explain it a bit more.)

What Do You Expect For 8.95?

[logicnazi]

If this really is censorship (and if it isn't why didn't they just go get a defamation judgement entered in the US and get the site host to take it down?) it would certainly be nice if GoDaddy stood up to it. However, standing up to legal challenges takes a lot of money and when they are only getting 8.95 for your domain they can hardly afford to defend these legal cases.

Frankly you get what you pay for. I'm a happy GoDaddy customer but I if I wanted a registrar who will stand up under legal challenges I don't think it would be unreasonable to switch to a registrar who charges more per domain.

Who's Your Daddy

[Doc Ruby]

GoDaddy's IPO attempt failed last month, as their Net company continues to lose money. They're spinning as "we didn't want to go public, anyway". But maybe they've got bigger problems.

After all, GoDaddy is owned by a Conservative making his fortune from domain squatting. I expect there's quite a lot going on under the hood. I'm looking forward to his explanation, as are many, many people who registered with GoDaddy who expect due process before sudden shutdown.

Re:Who's Your Daddy

[Reaperducer]

How is it relavant that he's conservative? Is this person somehow more evil than a liberal making his fortune from domain squatting? If you're going to put it in there, you should explain it, unless you're just trolling.

Re:Who's Your Daddy

[Reaperducer]

It could be seen as a trolling attempt because you appear to offer the opinion that being conservative is a bad thing, and associated with domain squatting. People who are conservatives may not share the same view. The only purpose including the man political leanings could serve is to inflame, and thus troll.

Your turn.

WHOIS

[DrunkenTerror]

Registrant:
John Smith
krasnaya ploschad
Moskva 00000
Russian Federation

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: RATEYOURSOLICITOR.COM
Created on: 02-Jul-05
Expires on: 02-Jul-10
Last Updated on: 15-Jul-05

Administrative Contact:
Smith, John lawyercatcher@lawyer.com
krasnaya ploschad
Moskva 00000
Russian Federation
714987650

Technical Contact:
Smith, John lawyercatcher@lawyer.com
krasnaya ploschad
Moskva 00000
Russian Federation
714987650

Domain servers in listed order:
PARK13.SECURESERVER.NET
PARK14.SECURESERVER.NET

Registry Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Registry Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Registry Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registry Status: clientRenewProhibited

Re:Not a surprise

[Mike Myatt]

I like a good lawyer joke just like anyone else, but lawyers in and of themselves are not the problem. There are good and bad service providers within any sector, so why should the legal sector be held to a higher standard? The reality is that there are glitches in the legal system and many people don't understand how to manage the legal process. For more insight into this issue you can read "The Truth About Lawyers" http://www.n2growth.com/blog/?p=12?

One More Strike Against GoDaddy

[Nom du Keyboard]

This is just one more strike against GoDaddy in my book. Just who owns and controls the domain that you've paid for anyway? I wonder if JS can transfer it away to another registrar?

But GD was already on my don't do business with list when they tried to trick me into transferring my own domain to them. Mine is paid through 2008, and they sent several e-mails to the contact address basically implying that to save it I needed to transfer it to them quickly and pay more money. I despise that tactic from any domain registrar of trying to poach customers in this manner.

Having very sexy women in their TV ads isn't enough to make up for the above.

Re:"British"?

[eiscir]

Where're you from mate? 'British Isles' is purely a geographical description - it includes all the islands off the northwest coast of Europe, the largest of which is called Britain. Makes sense to me, as an Irishman, to call them the British Isles then! However, if the /. had said 'A British flavour of lawyer', that would necessarily involve a political or ethnic implication, which would of course be incorrect. The wikipedia has an interesting article about the correct terminology here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_(termin ology). However, unfortunately it seems that Irish-America has got to it in places, making it seem that Irish people are far more puffed up about the term 'British Isles' than they really are. Needs a bit of editing, methinks.

GoDaddy, cowardice, and non-free speech.

[mbauser2]

I worked in GoDaddy's tech support department for a little while many years ago. They struck me as a little spineless when it comes to real controversy (as opposed to the manufactured controversy of some of their ads). GoDaddy's AUP is a lot tougher than their competitors, giving them permission to yank a domain for saying the wrong thing.

Check out this excerpt from their Registration Agreement:

Go Daddy may also cancel the registration of a domain name, after thirty (30) days, if that name is being used, as determined by Go Daddy in its sole discretion, in association with spam or morally objectionable activities. Morally objectionable activities will include, but not be limited to: activities designed to defame, embarrass, harm, abuse, threaten, slander or harass third parties; activities prohibited by the laws of the United States and/or foreign territories in which You conduct business; activities designed to encourage unlawful behavior by others, such as hate crimes, terrorism and child pornography; activities that are tortious, vulgar, obscene, invasive of the privacy of a third party, racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable; activities designed to impersonate the identity of a third party; and activities designed to harm or use unethically minors in any way.

It's not exactly a free-speech-friendly contract, is it? You can lose your registration for embarrassing someone. This is why I never moved any of my domains to GoDaddy when I was working for them. You can't count on them to stay out of legal battles that other registrars would ignore. Instead, they'll kill your registration, and expect to be patted on the back for being good citizens.

Sometimes, I think their real problem is that they want everyone to like them.

Re:GoDaddy, cowardice, and non-free speech.

[LBt1st]

I've been on the shit end of that stick. Not only are they quick to pull your domain/site, but then they expect $200 and a written apology even if you didn't do what they claimed you did to get your domain back. I now refer people away from GoDaddy. And it's quite a lot of people.

Re:Go Daddy Caves To Irish Legal Threat

[crush]

Ireland is not in the U.K. so the laws there have absolutely no bearing on this situation. It is my understanding that the Irish fought against British occupation for several centuries and then topped it off with a war from 1916 to 1922. There's a good new movie out called The Wind that Shakes the Barley about it.

So, a better question might be, are US hosted websites and registrars under the control of Irish courts? I don't understand how an Irish court ruling makes any difference to a US company. What other countries' courts exercise legal control over US ISPs and registrars?

gmax.net didn't (as I understand it) create the content. They just host the website whose content is presumably created in Ireland, so the Comm.Dec.Act should apply. It's not gmax.net's legal obligation, nor presumably is it GoDaddy's. It's just that GoDaddy apparently will pull the plug on us as soon as someone even threatens to sue!

From digging around a bit more I see that there's a companion website called CrookedLawyers.com put out by people called "Victims of the Legal Profession".

Re:Not a surprise

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

>why should the legal sector be held to a higher standard?

A car mechanic who does a bad job can waste money and cause inconvenience. Lawers abusing the system can shut down entire industries, for example light aircraft manufacturing.

An electrician who does a bad job can make someone's house burn down. A lawyer who does a bad job can let a client go to Death Row (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid= 17&did=442).

A floor tile installer who does a bad job can shake someone's faith in floor tile installers. A lawyer who does a bad job can shake the trust in the court system that holds society together.

Don't you get it?

[Travoltus]

Freedom from Government censorship isn't worth anything when corporations can make an end run around them and shut you up.

You can't go anywhere now and put out fliers because there's ordninances against it. You can't broadcast online because ISP's shut you down when you say something "objectionable enough".

We need free speech zones on the internet that do not depend on corporations or Government.

Re:Don't you get it?

[Infernal Device]

We need free speech zones on the internet that do not depend on corporations or Government.

It's called your computer. Specifically, for you, the one you own.

You have the Freedom of Speech. Nowhere is it written that you have Freedom of Easy-to-Access Speech or the Freedom of Everyone-has-to-help-you-so-ISP's-gimme-a-cable-li ne Speech.

Re:Don't you get it?

[Qzukk]

You have the Freedom of Speech. Nowhere is it written that you have Freedom of Easy-to-Access Speech

Tell me, Mr. Infernal, what good is a phone call... if you are unable to speak?

Re:Don't you get it?

[Infernal Device]

Tell me, Mr. Infernal,

Technically speaking, using the rules of English, that's Mr. Device. Be that as it may ...

what good is a phone call... if you are unable to speak?

Let's see here. There's pen and paper (could get your hands lopped off or perhaps your eyes gouged out) or ultimately, you can still walk out the door and communicate directly with your supplicants.

I get the general gist of your argument - really, I do. But you need to understand that no one person, corporation, business, or other entity is required to help you with whatever your mission is. Count yourself lucky that for the most part, these businesses aren't too worried about it - it's a side effect of the communications business that you have the ability to spread your screed over a wide area.

But it doesn't have to be that way and you should not count on it if what you have to say is particularly disturbing to the rest of society (or even some small part of it - as long as it's influential). Ultimately, you are only guaranteed the Freedom, not the means to utilize it in a convenient manner.

Re:Don't you get it?

[Travoltus]

Try that in my town. They'll round you up faster than you can say "whoops."

I drive around here every day. No fliers anywhere, except a few staked signs during election time. The ones that do go up, get taken down within a day. I actually timed it once for an unbelieving in-law.

Re:Sites that require registration

[crush]

It was the only source for the story which a friend in Ireland sent to me. I looked around for other sources but couldn't find one. I take your point though. Here's a copy of the story which is (c) Irish Independent

AN American domain name provider has suspended access to the controversial rateyoursolicitor.com website after an Irish High Court issued a court order to remove offensive material about a barrister from the site. Godaddy.com, an award winning internet site, suspended access to the rateyoursolicitor.com portal within 24 hours of an injunction issued by Judge Michael Hanna. Last Wednesday, Judge Hanna issued an order that defamatory material posted about Jayne Maguire, a barrister, on rateyoursolicitor.com must be removed with immediate effect. Ms Maguire has claimed that John Gill, of Drumline, Newmarket on Fergus, defamed her by posting offensive remarks on rateyoursolicitor.com. Mr Gill, chairman of the Victims of the Legal Profession Society, denied that anything concerning Ms Maguire was published or posted on the site. Ms Maguire is seeking damages for defamation and privacy and an interlocutory injunction of the statements about her on the site which she says is administered by Mr Gill. Godaddy.com have locked access to the site domain name until High Court proceedings are concluded. Lawyers acting for Ms Gill served notice on www.gmax.net, an American Internet Service Provider that is host to the site. It had been thought that Godaddy.com was hosting the site which invites Irish people to rate their lawyers, however gmax.net has now been identified as the ISP and has received notice of the High Court proceedings. Dearbhail McDonald

no..

[plasmacutter]

There is a difference betweeen denying service at request, and denying service after a client has been accepted and paid for his services.

No landlord, once the person has signed a lease, is allowed to evict their tenant for things like voting habits, their tendency to protest their favorite political party, their tendency to denounce the company they work for, etc.

If they tried it they could be sued into destitution.

The same thing with wrongful termination. While empolyers have the right to not hire you, once you are hired theyre not allowed to fire you for things like the hobbies you keep in your spare time or your political affiliation.

Finally, and most importantly, with increased power or wealth comes increased responsibility. Webhosting companies, like corporations who dominate a geographic area in terms of employment opportunity, estensibly have power rivaling a government and carrying the same weight.. as such they should be held to the same constitutional standards as the government, otherwise those constitutional guarantees don't mean jack.

The price of phony domain registration

[Animats]

The owner of that domain is listed as

John Smith
krasnaya ploschad
Moskva 00000
Russian Federation
714987650
lawyercatcher@lawyer.com

("krasnaya ploschad" is Red Square, the big plaza in front of the Kremlin.)

Ordinarily, faced with obnoxious registrar behavior, you can transfer the domain to another registrar. Given this phony domain registration info, thus domain owner can't do that.

That's the price of phony domain registration info - any trouble, and you lose the domain.

Re:Not a surprise

[Tim C]

While I agree with you, this example isn't a good one:

A car mechanic who does a bad job can waste money and cause inconvenience.

Said car mechanic could potentially cause death and destruction, if their work screws up the car's brakes or accelerator, etc. In fact, even the bad floor tile installer could lead to someone being injured (or even killed, if particularly unlucky), if they slip or trip on the tiles.

All the examples you quote could lead to people dying. I agree, though, that in terms of maximum likely damage, lawyers have greater potential to do harm.

Recommendations on better registrars?

[moz25]

Perhaps slightly off-topic, but which registrars would you guys recommend who have a proven track record of siding with the registrant?

No, I get it.

[NeutronCowboy]

Yeah, I used to think like that as well. Free speech doesn't apply to corporations or private web sites and all that.

However, do you really want to live in a place where Freedom of Speech is merely a hypothetical idea rather than a practical truth? Is the US really a better place than China, Russia or any other country when freedom of speech only exists when it doesn't offend anyone? Do you have freedom of speech if anyone can shut down your speech?

DNS Registrar free speech zone

[CustomDesigned]

OpenNIC is an alternative DNS root that does not depend on such corporations. Registering a non-ICANN toplevel domain under an opennic registrar would be good insurance against this kind of thing. Even going strictly with ICANN, registering more than one top level domain under different registrars is good insurance.

(-1, Wrong)

[El Long]

The Republic Of Ireland (Eire) is in fact part of the British Isles. The British Isles consists of Great Britain and Ireland. It is not part of the United Kingdom. This confusion seems to come up a lot.

Re:Go Daddy Caves To Irish Legal Threat

[tbjw]

With all due respect, and I happen to know something about this, the name of the state is Ireland. It is commonly called the Republic of Ireland in order to prevent the state (ROI) being confused with the island (Ireland). The name is 'Ireland' in English & 'Éire' in Irish. It's in the constitution.