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Cheating At Roulette May Be Legal In UK

nuke-alwin writes, "A hidden device that appears to give an advantage to roulette players may be legal in the UK when the gambling industry is deregulated next year. The device — which consists of a small digital time recorder, a concealed computer, and a hidden earpiece — uses predictive software to determine where the ball is likely to land. It has been tested by a government lab, which found that 'the advantage can be considerable.' It will be up to casinos to spot people using such devices."

17 of 226 comments (clear)

  1. Oh, casinos will know by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you want to know just what kind of consequences are in store for serious cheaters, even if what they are doing is perfectly legal, see Mezrich's Bringing Down the House , the story of the MIT students who used card counting to make millions. Even when they wore disguises on repeat visits, the casino still found them out, and hired goons to put the hurt on. So all of you thinking that you'll now become millionaires, think about how hard it would be to hide all this whizbang gadgetry if even simple card-counting doesn't fly at casinos.

    1. Re:Oh, casinos will know by antifoidulus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No there is no skill for roulette, but the payoff for one game can be considerable, many, many times what you can win in blackjack(provided you pick a number, not a color). Therefore you don't need to win nearly as many times to make significant amounts of money without raising lots of suspicion, and you can always go hit up lots of casinos in one night before anyone catches on.

    2. Re:Oh, casinos will know by Kierthos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, they do. And it's not sometimes. It's pretty much all the time, these days. They might be competing with each other for tourist bucks, but they all have a mutual vested interest in not being fleeced themselves. If someone is caught cheating, they are usually arrested for it, not taken out back so a couple of goons named Guido and Nunzio can kneecap them. And if you're arrested for cheating in a casino, your name and picture goes in a wonderful database that is made available to all the major casinos (you know, in addition to, say, a prison sentence), so if they catch you again, they can check and find out that, yes, you've done this before or no, you haven't.

      I believe that if you're convicted of cheating in a Las Vegas casino, and thereby banned, you can be hit with another felony charge for gambling in that, or any other casino in Las Vegas (or possibly across the whole of Nevada), regardless of whether or not you were cheating the second time.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
  2. Casinos wont permit them by Phil246 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They may be legal but it doesnt mean casinos have to let you in with them, or to allow you to continue playing should you be caught with one.

    1. Re:Casinos wont permit them by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Precisely.. why should cheating at roulette be a matter of law? If they catch you they can eject you. If they don't.. well that's their problem - nothing the state should be worried about.

  3. Re:Oh, well that's OK then... by Luctius · · Score: 5, Funny

    Because the guys at MI6 want an advantage when they are "doing their work".

  4. Re:Easy way out by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Simpler than that: the house can just set a rule that all bets have to be down before the croupier releases the ball.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  5. method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, casinos have a very simple method to sense if you are cheating: you are winning.

  6. Worth a try by farker+haiku · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Clicker: Used to record the speed of the rotor and ball, the data acquisition clicker can be concealed in a pen, a watchstrap, a shoe or even clipped to a molar tooth. The device is clicked as the two entities pass reference points to gauge the deceleration speeds. The data is sent to a remote computer

    Computer: Uses the timings to calculate which number the ball will strike based on an algorithm from data gathered and transmits the information to the earpiece. It is small enough to be hidden in a mobile phone, MP3 player, handbag or cigarette lighter.


    I wasn't actually sold on the idea until I read those two parts.. If I can conceal the clicker in my shoe or watch strap, then I can practice at home until I can do this undetected. I could rest my arm against the table and press on the table slightly until it clicks... just a matter of practice. Same thing for the shoe. If you fidgit from foot to foot regularly, it's a simple matter to press your foot down slightly. As far as a lighter - well I can't see casinos banning any form of vice... they themselves sell vice!

    --
    Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
  7. Re:Dubious article. by joke_dst · · Score: 5, Informative

    This has nothing to do with the weel beeing biased, it has to do with timing the ball and the weel and calculating where the ball will most likely stop. All this is in the article. (yeah, yeah, I know, I must be new here :))

  8. Re:Dubious article. by hankwang · · Score: 4, Informative
    After all, the ball is being released by a HUMAN while the wheel is turning the other way, and the wheel's starting point varies every time a new gambling round is launched (the wheel isn't placed in a predetermined way before being spun).
    TFA explains that the cheater is supposed to push a button every time the 0 (or some other point on the wheel) makes a full turn. This way the computer knows the position and velocity of the wheel with a fairly high accuracy. If it is statistically likely that the ball hits the wheel on the left side of the table, the computer can calculate what part of the wheel will pass the left side of the table by the time it has slowed down enough to catch the ball.
  9. Re:Easy way out by smilindog2000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, that wont work. The shoe computer simply tries to guess which half of the wheel the ball will land on, and the mass of the ball isn't one of it's assumptions. It basically just times the ball, finds out how quickly it's slowing down, and does a simple projection.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaemons

    An old boss of mine did something similar a few years later, in the early 80's. He built a card counting machine in a cigarette pack, and sent him signals through 2 LEDs hidden in his watch band, which were burried in small tubes angled at his face, so only he could see them.

    He made about $10K with the machine, then stopped using it. The money he made wasn't justifying the risk he felt he was taking. He worried he would be killed if caught.

    So, he still has the cigarette pack, and made his money honestly, founding a successful company in Silicon Valley, and taking it public.

    --
    Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
  10. Casinoes "will" know by eclectro · · Score: 5, Informative

    Companies have sophicticated electronic detection equipment that can detect the hash from your shoe computer. Using a device to 'help' with roulette is thirty years old. If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend the book The Eudaemonic Pie. One of the first shoe computers, using a 6502. This should be in the nerd's top ten books to read.

    Of course, if you used an asynchronous computer there would be no hash to detect....

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  11. Re:Easy way out by julesh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The primary reason this doesn't get done at the moment is that it opens the house up to accusations of cheating: it's very hard but not totally out of the question to influence which area of the wheel the ball ends up in. Allowing bets to placed after the ball is released removes any suspicion that this might be happening.

  12. Fight fire with fire by kestasjk · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why-oh-why don't casinos just use entropy generators? The user presses a button, a computer generates a number between 0 and 100, if it's lower than or equal to 48 they lose, if it's above then they win.

    In fact by using central limit theorem, and allowing the user to enter how many bets they would like to place, and how much money, you can compound an entire nights worth of bets into a fraction of a second! What a time saver!

    --
    // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
  13. Re:Prediction is not cheating... by spiritraveller · · Score: 4, Informative

    but card-counting is not cheating, it's good memory.

    Card counting really has little to do with memory. It simply involves assigning a point value to each card value and keeping count as each new deck is dealt out. As such. the only thing you have to remember is the current count.

    The most useful aspect of card counting is determining your bet size. When there are more tens and aces left in the deck, you have better odds over the dealer (often this becomes an advantage). At this point, you increase the amount of your bet.

    Unfortunately, this does make card counting rather easy to spot, so another aspect of card counting is to determine your playing strategy based on the current count. You then have to memorize charts that tell you what is the best play for a certain combination of cards and a given count. This does involve memorization, but not the kind that most people think of when you mention card counting.

    Card counting has never really been about memorizing exactly which cards have been dealt out of the deck. Very few people would have the ability to do that. Card counting as it is actually practiced is not that hard to do... though it is very hard to master it such that you maintain your advantage AND don't get kicked out of the casino.

    One of the simplest counting systems involves assigning a +1 to all the tens in the deck (tens and face cards), and a -1 to all the 2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s. Whenever the count is positive, you have a higher ratio of tens to the lower cards, and thus you probably have an advantage. The more tens, the more likely you get a blackjack, and the more likely the dealer will bust if you don't get a blackjack.

  14. Re:Prediction is not cheating... by kenj0418 · · Score: 4, Informative

    One of the simplest counting systems involves assigning a +1 to all the tens in the deck (tens and face cards), and a -1 to all the 2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s. Whenever the count is positive, you have a higher ratio of tens to the lower cards, and thus you probably have an advantage. The more tens, the more likely you get a blackjack, and the more likely the dealer will bust if you don't get a blackjack.

    You apparently have that backwards. If 8 face cards, and no small cards came up the first hand, that would leave you with a +8, but you would be at a disadvantage since more 10's would out of the deck than the small cards. From looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting the 10/face cards should be -1, and the low cards +1.

    Ken