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Enabling Bittorrent at the University Level?

Sorthum asks: "I'm a network administrator for a small university (approximately 5000 students all told). We're running NAT in the dorms, which obviously restricts BitTorrent traffic. We do an annual student survey, on which 'Residential Network' is listed as the number 2 complaint. This translates more or less into 'Bittorrent is slow here.' My boss is in a frenzy to appease the users at virtually any cost, but it seems to me from my research that the only real way to improve Bittorrent speeds is to start assigning public IPs to the dorms. Add to that the potential liability of making a service that by most reports has upward of 90% of its traffic fall into a 'legally questionable' gray area, how can I win in this situation?"

145 comments

  1. Do they mention bittorrent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or are you just speculating? Because Bittorrent does work behind NAT, and most legitimate users of it, don't really track upload/download like the less legitimate versions do. If there's some reaource that's not fast enough, cache it locally and offer it to students that way.

    1. Re:Do they mention bittorrent? by Sorthum · · Score: 1

      It works behind NAT, but we're not filtering right now, and it's taking up very little bandwidth-- most users can't exceed 20K a second for some reasons.

  2. You have to decide what's important by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    BitTorrent, like any other technology, protocol, or tool, can be used for things that are legal, illegal, or questionable in various jurisdictions. Are you prepared to continue quashing a protocol or service simply because it may be abused?

    On the other hand, almost all (or at least a great deal) of the BitTorremt traffic may be currently used for sharing copyrighted materials. We all know that to be the case. Is it responsible to open up the pipes for what you know is almost exclusively illegitimate usage, within the context of the law (regardless of how you or anyone else feels about copyright infringement, and so on)?

    On yet another hand, what happens if BitTorrent usage becomes largely legitimate because some large legitimate service begins using it? (And yes, to those reading this, I'm more than aware BitTorrent is used for a variety of legitimate large downloads.) In that event, can you afford to continue treating any protocol or service as if it's illegitimate, just because some level of it is now?

    During the heyday of Napster (1999-2000), UW-Madison estimated that Napster accounted for over half (!) of our inbound and outbound traffic. There was a lot of talk about how to deal with this. Ultimately, UW-Madison decided that as a large public research university, we can't afford to police a particular kind of traffic wholesale: any network protocol can be abused, used for illegal purposes, and so on. We felt that the academic arguments and responding to usage demands of the campus trumped making judgment calls about the appropriateness of the use. Granted, the appropriate use policy of the university forbade some of the things people were using the network for, but we didn't actively police (or restrict) traffic. In the end, this provided the university with the impetus to examine ways of meeting increased demand and come up with novel solutions to our neverending bandwidth needs. One interesting example is that we now locally host a collection of Akamai's servers on our own network, which serves UW-Madison, the 25 other UW System Schools, and WiscNet. However, some of the smaller schools couldn't afford to make those same determinations: they either restricted or blocked Napster (and other things, like Gnutella) completely.

    Today, the university does shape and restrict traffic to the residence halls in various ways; but it's designed to do so in a way such that users almost always won't notice any impact and allows equal access for all. All of our residence halls feature 100mbit ethernet, and that full pipe may be taken advantage of. Some users do use the network for inappropriate purposes, and those cases are dealt with individually when needed. Still, there is no proactive policing unless there are clear abuse/misuse issues. For what it's worth, BitTorrent (and all other protocols) are fully usable here.

    If you can afford it, politically and financially, I'd say you should be looking into opening this up. The school does not bear responsibility for the actions of its users unless there is a lack of good faith attempts to stop abuse when requested by, e.g., copyright holders. There always is the argument of customer satisfaction, as well, that must be responded to - whether some students' use is appropriate or not.

    1. Re:You have to decide what's important by aitikin · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am currently attending a university where they shape traffic. I have been here for as long as the shaping system has been in place and I have heard nothing but complaints. Granted, the university implemented CleanAccess as well, but most of the complaints seem to be related to the shaping and I don't work in ITS, so this is all just what I have picked up from living here. The most common complaint seems to be how slow the network is period, not just for P2P purposes. I can't even connect to the completely legitimate website www.ilounge.com, it never times out, it just keeps on "transmitting data".

      I apparently can't use any proxy servers either. If I do a download from a sourceforge mirror, it comes in at about 40 kb/s which isn't too bad, but if I do a download from bit torrent I'm lucky if it comes in at .5 kb/s. This effectively prohibits me from effiently installing a customized Linux distribution, like Gentoo, because I can't install any packages at any relative speed.

      In response to the shaping, which functions more like bandwidth limiting, an individual within the dorms has set up a DC++ hub, so while we may not be able to get anything from outside the network, we can at least get things from within. This just goes to show you that no matter what you do to "limit" illegal activities, people will find a way. So my answer to the OP would be to let them have it, just limit the actual bandwidth they can use, which is similar to how University of Illinois handles the problem.

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    2. Re:You have to decide what's important by daveschroeder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Our restrictions for the residence halls really just come down to bandwidth restrictions.

      Residents get 5GB/week off-campus (unlimited on-campus). If they go over this limit, their off-campus connectivity speed is reduced until their traffic usage goes below a 4GB for the previous 7 day period. Campus traffic is never affected.

      We haven't had any complaints about usability of the residence hall connections. All other connections on campus (non-residence halls) are generally unrestricted, and almost all are 100mbit.

      More info: http://www.housing.wisc.edu/resnet/aup.php

    3. Re:You have to decide what's important by Thalagyrt · · Score: 1

      5 GB is absolutely nothing these days. It'd make more sense to have it something along the lines of 10 or 15 GB. Either way, I personally think that capping student downloads is pretty braindead. There are much better ways to deal with misbehaving students automatically on a case by case basis.

      I'm an admin at University of Miami and we have no bandwidth usage policy, and you know what? We don't hear a single complaint from students about speed. If someone does something against the AUP, either our firewall or the tipping point packet filter will pick it up and notify the help desk and an automated program which terminates the user's session temporarily and gives them notice of what they did wrong.

      Also, saying you haven't had complaints about usability is a flat out lie. I know this for a fact because I have several friends on your campus who have complained about it multiple times. One friend installed/patched up World of Warcraft just to find out afterwards that his connection speed was slower than a 56k dialup. Another found one day that his bandwidth usage on your site jumped from 400 megs to 3 gigs, without him doing *anything* during that time frame. A bug possibly? You guys need to rework your software that manages that.

      --
      Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo!
    4. Re:You have to decide what's important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with UW-Madison ResNet, the networks in the residence halls, or anything having to do with how they're administered.

      5GB per 7 days to off-campus sites is plenty for undergraduate residential use. For what it's worth, World of Warcraft downloads and patches do not fall under the University or Housing AUPs; if anything, they fall under the de minimus usage categories.

      On-campus use is not restricted, and University wireless and non-housing networks are not restricted.

      Almost all users of the housing networks don't have complaints about the usability or utility of the network. It really hasn't been a big problem, and putting the limits on Housing users has, if anything, solved problems.

      Further, under this model, residents aren't proactively reprimanded for "inappropriate" use, as long as they stay within the bandwidth limits. Limiting traffic in this way was Housing's decision, not the University's, nor that of the central IT organization.

    5. Re:You have to decide what's important by Orion_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Residents get 5GB/week off-campus (unlimited on-campus). If they go over this limit, their off-campus connectivity speed is reduced until their traffic usage goes below a 4GB for the previous 7 day period.

      I would disagree that 5GB/week is really enough, but aside from that, I consider this a perfectly reasonable policy.

      The problem is that the AUP you linked to flatly contradicts the bandwidth limitation policy as you described it. The real policy is that what you describe only happens the first time the 5GB cap is exceeded. After that, a series of increasingly punitive measures are taken, culminating in the fourth time when the user's off-campus access is completely revoked until he can "justify the reinstatement" of said connection to university officials.

      This is completely unacceptable to me. I am a graduate student at UW-Madison, and this policy is the main reason I decided not to live in the university apartments. I know the university doesn't really care: There is more than enough demand for on-campus housing, and I'm sure the policy is designed specifically to scare off people like me that are likely to actually use their network connection.

      But don't act like you have some kind of enlightened policy that relies on something as innocuous as throttling to meet the university's bandwidth goals, when in fact you have a policy that relies primarily on threatening the students with disciplinary action if they exceed their bandwidth limit.

    6. Re:You have to decide what's important by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      Residents get 5GB/week off-campus (unlimited on-campus). If they go over this limit, their off-campus connectivity speed is reduced until their traffic usage goes below a 4GB for the previous 7 day period. Campus traffic is never affected.

      In principle this system sounds fair, but I can think of at least one improvement...

      5G external is (more than) enough for education-related traffic (assuming you have decent internal mirrors), but you should have a system where students are allow to pay an additional (reasonable - comparable to commercial broadband in the area) fee to be able to increase their allowed bandwidth usage (again, on par with commercial broadband in the area).

      I can agree than an on-campus network's primary (if not only) priority is to provide education-related connectivity, but if dorms in the US are anything like colleges in Australia, if you *do* want to have "extra curricular internet access", you're pretty muched fucked - because ADSL doesn't work through the internal phone systems and installing cable is not an option.

    7. Re:You have to decide what's important by commanderfoxtrot · · Score: 1

      May I ask what you do with over 5GB?

      How many Linux distributions can you download and USE in one day?

      While I could certainly download tens of GBs, I wouldn't be able to actually use it. There aren't enough hours in the day to more than boot the 10 or so distributions that would make up 5GB. I have better things to do. And I would hope that most students at a university are similar.

      Now, there will be exceptions (e.g. freely available census/seismic/GIS data), but most uses of >5GB are not urgent and I think people who want to download 20 Linux distributions or VMWare images can probably cope with having to do it over a couple of days.

      --
      http://blog.grcm.net/
    8. Re:You have to decide what's important by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1
      May I ask what you do with over 5GB?

      I routinely use 20-30 GB/month, and that's when I don't use BitTorrent. 5 GB/week would keep me pretty much perpetually bandwidth-limited.

      How many Linux distributions can you download and USE in one day?

      The last Debian release alone was 8.5 GB, and that's only for i386. Source code is another 8.8 GB. (These links are for reference only, if you want to download Debian CD/DVDs, go here to avoid flooding the kernel.org mirror.)

      On top of that, you'll probably want to download a live CD such as Knoppix.

      But to partly answer your question, I've recently downloaded 5 distros in one day. It was 3 different versions of Mandriva (which is a terribly-designed OS, IMHO), Fedora Core 5, and Knoppix. Coincidently, it was because I was doing some work my university hired me to do (though I don't live on campus).

      Personally, though, I'm not sure that all students in residence should be required to pay for more bandwidth than is reasonably considered necessary for their education, so 5 GB/week is probably fine as a baseline, as long as:

      1. No punitive actions are taken for exceeding this bandwidth. (Just throttle the connection once usage gets too high, which will happen legitimately from time to time);
      2. The traffic is metered outside the local network (local traffic is exempt); and
      3. Individual students have the option of paying for better service at a rate comparable to what is offered by high-speed Internet providers in the local area. Alternatively, students could have the option of getting third-party high-speed service to supplement the baseline service provided by the university.

      Basically, people in university residences should have access to decent bandwidth, but it doesn't necessarily need to be provided automatically.

    9. Re:You have to decide what's important by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 1

      Most large public universities host mirrors of the major linux distros somewhere on campus. Besides, it's faster to grab it over 100 mbit ethernet from a machine on campus than it is to download from a kernel.org mirror.

  3. Well, this worked for me... by JimXugle · · Score: 1

    UPnP.

    --
    -jX

    Don't you just love politics? It's like a comedy of errors.
  4. UPnP? by avalys · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know on small, home networks, many routers now support the Internet Gateway Device (UGD) protocol of UPnP, which allows dynamic configuration of port-forwarding for applications running through NAT. I'm not sure how well-suited the protocol is for large networks, but perhaps that's something you could consider?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Gateway_Devi ce

    --
    This space intentionally left blank.
    1. Re:UPnP? by ldspartan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't believe there are any Industrial Strength(tm) routers that support UPnP; I don't even think there's a decent daemon for the *ixs.

      Plus, its a scary idea. A protocol to poke arbitrary holes in firewalls? Brilliant!

    2. Re:UPnP? by Karma+Farmer · · Score: 1

      NAT != Firewall

    3. Re:UPnP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IGD daemon for UPnP port forwarding: http://linux-igd.sourceforge.net/

    4. Re:UPnP? by jZnat · · Score: 1

      But since this is a university, we can probably assume that the NAT and firewall are on the same router(s).

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  5. Leave it by Vokbain · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They should be glad BitTorrent works at all. Students can wait a little while longer to steal movies/games/whatever.

    1. Re:Leave it by pdpTrojan · · Score: 0, Funny

      omg no way!!! at my school we just download linux isos. you are so ignorant... bittorrent is awesome!!!!!!

    2. Re:Leave it by Cheapy · · Score: 1

      Or download a Linux distro like I just did at my UW-Madison dorm.

      --
      Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
    3. Re:Leave it by zippthorne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If they mirror the linux distro, it'll download even faster. Perhaps they should figure out what students are downloading most (i.e. linux distros, game patches, movies that are in the public domain.. and keep local copies of those things. Once they learn of its existance, students will pretty much always go to the local cache for it's much much greater bandwidth and far lower latency.

      They could even use mediawiki to allow the students to take some control of the cache.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:Leave it by jb.hl.com · · Score: 1

      Mod parent funsightful (funny with some insightfulness...I dunno, I might as well invent a new moderation).

      If you think all college students are going to download over BitTorrent is shit from Archive.org and/or Debian, you're more than a little deluded.

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    5. Re:Leave it by Brandee07 · · Score: 1
      They should be glad BitTorrent works at all.

      At my university, it doesn't. So much as a byte of bittorrent traffic and your dorm connection gets shut off for a week. Worse, your dorm connection is tied to your student ID, so once you're cut off you can't use the wireless access provided in the library either. So much for downloading WoW patches.

    6. Re:Leave it by NG+Resonance · · Score: 1

      It's not theft, it's copyright infringement.

    7. Re:Leave it by Sorthum · · Score: 1

      I should have probably mentioned that this is a liberal arts school-- the vast majority of students aren't here for compsci. I've met ONE student who runs Linux during my tenure here, and I'm even willing to host a local mirror of any distro our students request.

    8. Re:Leave it by ednopantz · · Score: 1

      Wow.

      Do you really believe bittorrent is mainly about inux distros, game patches, movies that are in the public domain?

      If so, welcome to Earth. You must be new here.

    9. Re:Leave it by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Of course not, but if the network admins take care of the legal bandwidth hogs by mirroring, the students can hardly complain if the connection turns out to be insufficient for their illegal interests.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    10. Re:Leave it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The funny thing is that when I've downloaded stuff via BitTorrent, the Linux distros have always had far more seeds and peers than American TV shows and English-subtitled Japanese animation. On the other hand, maybe I just have good taste for Linux distros and bad taste for entertainment...

  6. Incorrect premise by bconway · · Score: 0

    We're running NAT in the dorms, which obviously restricts BitTorrent traffic.

    No it doesn't. BitTorrent works perfectly fine behind NAT, with or without port forwarding enabled for it. It can take a little extra time for things to get up to speed without any forwarding, but it still works fine.

    --
    Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
    1. Re:Incorrect premise by dircha · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes it does. Let me explain, for your benefit and for the benefit of the topic submitter.

      If your client does not accept incoming external connections and share torrents (if your client is not on an externally accessible device and you don't have port forwarding configured), all other peers will assign you a priority lower than every other peer that is sharing.

      This doesn't just mean you will be last in line to receive the requested torrent. It means that all other clients will relegate your request to the small segment of bandwidth configured to be set aside for non-sharing peers.

      While it is possible for you to still obtain a fast download speed in the case that your request is fielded by such a large number of peers either whose bandwidth is under utilized or collectively whose non-sharing peer bandwidth allocation gives you an acceptable transfer rate, in most every case your download speed will be only a fraction of what it would be were you sharing.

      And while I have not used BitTorrent in a long time now, it would not surprise me if clients were to implement logic to completely cut off "deadbeat" peers (freeloaders) such as yourself. Clients are by default configured to share with non-sharing peers not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because it is advantageous to allow peers who did not previously have anything to share to get a footing in the network on the premise that some of those peers may go on to become outstanding sharers. If however a peer downloads a great deal of data but fails to begin sharing within a reasonable period of time, that peer is probably a freeloader and can be safely blacklisted.

      The "little extra time for things to get up to speed" you are seeing is the wait for all other leechers ahead of you to finish, opening up room in peers' non-sharing peer bandwidth to accomodate you.

      Which I hope speaks to the question of why on earth would this university network administrator want to allow his users to use university bandwidth to get bonus points with copyright infringers so that they themselves can infringe copyright more effectively...

      If you must do something, why don't you quietly encourage them to setup their own torrents on the local intranet? Surely between an entire campus of students there is enough shareable music to keep them occupied.

    2. Re:Incorrect premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think your post is slightly misleading. Being behind a NAT means that others cannot initiate connections to you... but you can still initate connections to them. So even behind NAT you can still share pieces and will not be a leech. However the number of people you will be connected to at any given moment will be lower, since you are always initiating the connection, and you are never receiving connections.

      You can still be useful to other users in the swarm, because you may have chunks others do not. Bittorrent clients typically request the "most rare" chunks first, so that you can be a good sharer to others. So if you initiate connections to A and B, you can download bits from A and then upload them to B in exchange for new chunks. So you ARE SHARING.

      However neither A nor B nor C can initiate new connections to you out of the blue, which means that statistically the size of the swarm you see is always smaller than someone who can receive connections.

      This is why opening up a 'listening port' makes bit-torrent downloads so much faster: the swarm size grows and establishing new connections is faster since it is two-way. However even with no listening ports, you can still use bit-torrent and can still share.

    3. Re:Incorrect premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Which I hope speaks to the question of why on earth would this university network administrator want to allow his users to use university bandwidth to get bonus points with copyright infringers so that they themselves can infringe copyright more effectively...

      As a University student I find comments like that very frustrating. Making bittorrent faster (by opening incoming ports) will make it faster for *every* use, whether academic or otherwise. I'm not going to argue that most home bittorrent use is not for movies and video games, but within a university context I'm afraid you have to give your users the benefit of the doubt.

      I use the university network for bittorrent all the time... and yes it's for Linux distros and other large legitimate data. I personally feel that it's a valid part of my education to be able to play with different operating systems, pieces of software, technology, etc. Having fast bittorrent connections allows me to do this. Frankly my education shouldn't have to suffer just because others are using it for non-approved things. Worse, my education shouldn't suffer because someone believes that "all bittorrent traffic is for pirating" (or sentiments to that effect).

    4. Re:Incorrect premise by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1
      If your client does not accept incoming external connections and share torrents (if your client is not on an externally accessible device and you don't have port forwarding configured), all other peers will assign you a priority lower than every other peer that is sharing.


      Any client that relies on the fact that other peers cannot accept inbound connections is broken. A better design is based on the upload/download ratio. As long as the peer is capable of uploading (even if it is a seeder that makes outbound connections to peers), then it is still a good peer.

      The only reason firewalled peers are slower is because they are incapable of connecting to other firewalled peers. This cuts down on the potential bandwidth available and therefore cuts down on download speed.
  7. Your fucked by bernywork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1) Implement public IPs and face the consequences, namely either knock on issues of them hammering your internet pipe, or as you said the otherwise potential legal issues surrounding it.
    2) There was an article a little while back on rate shaping

    You do have to question why the network is really there. Maybe you just need to tell your boss to get a grip.

    I hate to say it, but does bittorrent (For non-uni use) really fall into the "supported" category? I know it's going to be something that everyone is going to try to find a way around as most uni networks have pretty good internet connections, but on a large scale like this you have to get an official statement from your boss as to say whether it's supported or not.

    Sorry I can't give you better news.

    --
    Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
    1. Re:Your fucked by brunes69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You do have to question why the network is really there. Maybe you just need to tell your boss to get a grip.

      I hate to say it, but does bittorrent (For non-uni use) really fall into the "supported" category?

      I don't know if you've ever been to a University before (and if so if you've ever stayed in a dorm), but you've got to rememebr for most of these kids, the Internet pipe that comes with their dorm is *their only option*. Lots of caompuses do not let students get their own DSL/Cable installed in their dorm, they have to use the service that are privided with the dorm.,p>That said, you also gotta remember, these kids *are payig for* that dormroom Internet. If they can't use it for recreational use in their downtime, they're getting a really raw deal.

    2. Re:Your fucked by bernywork · · Score: 1

      I understand that it's their only option in some instances. At that point the uni should be running it as an ISP then, give each of them a public IP and then run it as seperate infrastructure, on a seperate business model. At that point they should also include a set of terms and conditions that specifically point out that they are not in any way responsible for anything that they do. If people complain that it's slow, then there may not be much more of an option aside to rate shape traffic.

      Either way, (My semi-educated opinion) it's not an engineering problem, it's a managerial problem about how the whole lot is being run at the moment and it obviously needs a re-think on how things are being done.

      --
      Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
    3. Re:Your fucked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      My fucked what?

    4. Re:Your fucked by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Is there really a big problem if the computers are given public IP addresses and then only open on ports 2000-3000, perhaps with all known services blocked within that range even. This would allow people to bittorrent and still keep most of the benifit of the NAT and use the firewall as it was meant to be used.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  8. Do what universities do here? by Keruo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Assess the need of services to provide to students, webmail, directory services, course pages etc.
    Make the services available over net.
    Kick residential networks completely away from university network.
    Then you won't have to worry about what students do in their network, since it's operated by third party operator, not by university.
    Third-party operators here are student unions etc, which partly/entirely own the housing which students rent,
    and network policies are set at student level.

    --
    There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
    1. Re:Do what universities do here? by GC · · Score: 1

      Interesting, I think ridding yourself of the problem by bringing in a third-party operator probably wouldn't resolve the issues that the students have, but it might shift it to being their problem.

      Slightly offtopic, when I was at Uni in 1991 (Warwick, UK) the department of computer services, CSV, had a similar issue with what would now be called "chat rooms" (I personally believe that this was where Internet chat was invented), although the problem was that the chat servers were being hosted I guess 'illegally' on workstations there are some parallels as to what is supported and what isn't. (Also notable is that this is before anyone ever used NAT, and the idea of the stateful firewall was yet to reach the mainstream, as such all systems on the University network were freely accessible on all ports from the entire Internet. This was however, before that fateful AOL day, so the entire Internet was still mostly high-level academia)

      The whole saga is all recounted on Cheeseplants website and it's funny to note how new protocol's and internet functions can be impeded from proliferation, but seldom stopped and that we continue to try to impede these technologies to this today.

    2. Re:Do what universities do here? by rbbs · · Score: 1

      Have a two tier service:

      1) NAT'd and cheap with a 5gb/week limit
      2) Public IP and pricey with no limits.

      The students have a public ip so are directly responsible for their actions.
      Should be easy enough to do once you have the IPs, just allocate them to the mac addresses of the interface cards and you're set.
      oh yes, and check periodically for open access points...

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  10. Operate like an ISP by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Give them public ip addresses, but make them dynamic, possibly make each user connect using PPoE, so there is a username and password, limit the bandwidth, block inbound windows SMB/LSH/NetBIOS ports such as port 139, 137 incoming to each user, etc.

    Keep logs of what user logs in to what ip address. As an ISP you aren't responsible for the details of exactly they do online, you have no idea about the nature of their activities, or if they're legal or not: make sure you stay within the DMCA safe harbour, and clearly document the contact information as required, so the ISP can receive DMCA letters.

    ISP responsibilities should be mostly met by being able to match an ip address to an individual who is responsible for that node.

  11. How are they using BT? by barzok · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's the key question. When I was in college, the network and internet access were provided "for academic use". Obviously, when you have thousands of people living on the campus 24/7 for 8 months out of the year, there will be plenty of non-academic use, but that's understood and accepted, as long as you're keeping it reasonable. Call up the helpdesk and complain that your Quake(World) ping times are slow or you're lagging, and they aren't going to work much at "fixing" it. Run a high-volume server (web or game), and they'll come shut you down, unless it's directly related to something you're doing academically. If you're having trouble downloading something from MIT for a research paper, and they'll take care of it.

    Are the students using BT for legitimate academic purposes, or are they using it to download entertainment? Don't even get into the "gray area" of judging whether the content being downloaded is legal or not. If they have educational needs that are being met by BT, then there's an argument for "improving" that service. If not, why spend the time and bandwidth money on it?

    If it's about Linux ISOs, set up a local mirror for the student body and ask them to use that. Bonus being that they'll download it faster than they ever could with BT.

    1. Re:How are they using BT? by grim4593 · · Score: 1

      You act like the universities are doing them a favor by having internet. The students are paying for this, dorms are not cheap. The university is making lots of money when housing is thousands of dollars per person and there are 2-4 people to a room. And these are not large apartments either, the students have to get something out of the deal, especially when some universities come up with the BS idea of requiring freshmen and sophomores to live on campus. Since the university is a monopoly in most respects, they should make considerations for their students.

    2. Re:How are they using BT? by barzok · · Score: 0, Troll

      The university isn't obligated to provide internet access at all. The primary intended use of that internet access is for academic purposes. If they're using BT for legitimate academic purposes, then whatever problem there is should be addressed. If they're not, it can wait.

      BT uses bandwidth, and bandwidth costs money. Room & board are billed separately from all other university services, and that room & board bill doesn't include internet in most cases. Housing, contrary to what you may believe, isn't cheap. The students get planty out of the deal - they don't have to pay for water, electricity, maintenance, food, most cleaning, heat, and grounds maintenance (the sidewalks don't shovel themselves).

      How is the university a monopoly? You have thousands of universities to choose from. If you don't like one school's terms & requirements, don't go there.

    3. Re:How are they using BT? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      The university is doing them a favor by providing a service they are not obligated to provide. Students may examine the lease, or the rental agreement they sign when they buy use of a room. The services the university is required to provide in consideration for the amount they pay for rent will be listed.

      Internet service may not be listed, and there may indeed be an additional charge to use internet access. I know for a fact that a number of universities require payment of a fee to access the internet.

      The University is an ISP, and they have the right to set the terms of use for their network, but they should act like an ISP, and treat their users like customers. For one thing, they should offer at least the same level of service you would expect from a consumer ISP, such as providing a public ip address and providing access to popular services like BitTorrent, HTTP, E-mail, Online Games, IRC, Skype, etc.

      If the options offered by the University are not to the satisfaction of the students, they have the possible option of buying internet access from a third party, and the possible option of choosing not to live in the dorm during the school year (even if they still have to pay the dorm fees to attend school, they can choose to live somewhere else, possibly paying a rent for the place they live and a rent for the dorm they don't actually live in as a result).

      I'm not saying it's fair. A University has no obligation to be fair, they just have to act legally and professionally.

    4. Re:How are they using BT? by DeusExMalex · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The students get planty out of the deal - they don't have to pay for water, electricity, maintenance, food, most cleaning, heat, and grounds maintenance (the sidewalks don't shovel themselves).


      Are you insane? What the hell makes you think that students living in the dorms don't pay for water, electricity, maintenance, food, cleaning, heat and maintenance?! Just the fact that we don't get a monthly bill for it?

      I'll let you in on a little secret: the cost to a student of living in a dorm has all these factors (other than food, which is payed for in a meal plan) factored in. There is no way that a business will eat the cost of so much expense - they pass it on to the consumer. So yes, students do have to pay for water, electricity, mainenance, cleaning, heat and maintenance - they're included in tuition and housing bills.
    5. Re:How are they using BT? by aitikin · · Score: 1
      "If the options offered by the University are not to the satisfaction of the students, they have the possible option of buying internet access from a third party"

      Here at EIU we cannot buy third party access. If we do so, we violate our residance agreements. Furthermore, we can't setup wireless APs ourselves, we can't log on without doing the following (for windows), have CleanAccessAgent running, have bridge networking turned off, have every Windows Update, have one of three major AV programs (Symantic is provided at no additional cost), and have all these running all the time, (for everyone else) you have to open a browser window and log in with your username and password.

      At first it seems that they're trying to get people to give up on Windows, but then the network is so slow that pretty much all Linux distributions would be a waste of time anyway because you can't download anything fast enough.
      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    6. Re:How are they using BT? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Depending on what country you are in your options may be different. In the US, a rental agreement that prevents you from using any antenna is a prohibited restriction and can be preempted under FCC rules, if the antenna is small enough, and is a "customer-end" antenna. I.E. You could subscribe to a wireless ISP, if available, provided you have control over an area such as a balcony where you can place the antenna.

      Specific rental restriction may be preempted under FCC Rules that prevent a renter from stopping tenants from setting up antennae for transmitting and receiving at the customer-end to access a fixed wireless internet service, direct broadcast, etc, see the FCC Fact sheet.

      If you have exclusive control of an area, they may have broken the law by making too sweeping a restricting that prevented you from operating an AP in the first place -- reasonable safety limitations are ok, but they can't prohibit signal reception and transmission by consumer-end equipment.

      The FCC provides the wireless frequencies used by APs as unlicensed spectrum, so long as your use of the equipment follows FCC rules, the FCC is the sole regulator in this matter, private property owners cannot restrict spectrum, and the devices function without harmful effects such as RF Interference or human RF exposure beyond the established limits, you and your device has a right to utilize these public frequencies. In theory, you could get a special license to a dedicated frequency, setup special wireless equipment to operate at that frequency, and carry your access in from a remote site.

      Your computers are personal property, the university has no legal right to directly restrict how your computer may connect to the internet -- they can't prevent you from subscribing to a third party service, legally, but it may be difficult to do against their wishes, since they don't have to provide the facilities you might need to get a third party service in, either. I.E. You might need to get an additional phone line or special leased circuit in the building, and up to your room, somehow.

      They can't control who you are allowed to call on a cell phone, or when you may use a cell phone in your room (these are also things that they cannot legally restrict), also, the cell phones use spectrum licensed to the mobile providers. You may be able to use a cell phone as a method to connect to the internet, through a data service, the University will have no knowledge of any private arrangements and services you receive with your mobile providers.

    7. Re:How are they using BT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The students get planty out of the deal - they don't have to pay for water, electricity, maintenance, food, most cleaning, heat, and grounds maintenance (the sidewalks don't shovel themselves).

      Are you insane? What the hell makes you think that students living in the dorms don't pay for water, electricity, maintenance, food, cleaning, heat and maintenance?! Just the fact that we don't get a monthly bill for it?

      I'll let you in on a little secret: the cost to a student of living in a dorm has all these factors (other than food, which is payed for in a meal plan) factored in. There is no way that a business will eat the cost of so much expense - they pass it on to the consumer. So yes, students do have to pay for water, electricity, mainenance, cleaning, heat and maintenance - they're included in tuition and housing bills.
      No, they're only included in their housing bills.

      I'm fully aware that the students are paying for it, it's all rolled into the housing bill, so it's "transparent." They're not having to pay a monthly bill which most are not capable of properly budgeting for, and also wouldn't be covered by many student loan/savings programs so it'd be an immediate out of pocket expense they can't cover. Would it be better if they housing bill was 1/3 less, but every month the students were sent a half-dozen bills for everything else?.
  12. They by mattboston · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    should be lucky they get internet access in their rooms. When I went to college, which wasn't that long ago, we had to go to the library or settle for dialup in our rooms

    1. Re:They by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "They" pay $2,600 at the very least for going to school fulltime each semester, and may be FORCED to live on campus (and pay for it) for their first year at college.

      The school has an obligation to make sure they can use the internet for both school and pleasure

    2. Re:They by mattboston · · Score: 1

      Their problem is they are spoiled brats who believe that they deserve everything for free. The school is not obligated to provide them anything except an education, room and board. The internet access they provide is a privledge, which can be taken away if people abuse the privledge. Read your college or university's AUP.

      Also, wait till they get in the real world where their employment will be terminated for abusing the "free" internet at work. I've personally seen people terminated on the spot and escorted out of the building by security for abusing the internet at work.

    3. Re:They by mysidia · · Score: 1

      No. The school doesn't have this obligation, not unless they provided it in the housing agreement.

      The students want and expect internet access for school and pleasure. But this is something different from the school having an obligation to provide the same. A school, if it wishes, has the option of having no internet access on campus, whatsoever. They will seem to be living in the dark ages to most, and students will avoid the school as a result, but that is an option that schools have.

      The students would like it if they would provide internet access to the room for both school and pleasure, the fact is they don't have to be given this -- an obligation is something the university has a legal obligation to provide, something they put in an agreement. Students wants do not have to be met.

      The school isn't even obligated have to have telephone service, or cable, available in your room unless it's in the agreement and a level of service they ordinary provide. They may have to have some electricity (lights) in buildings, but only for safety reasons -- they don't have to provide wall outlets for you to plug stuff into.

    4. Re:They by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a privledge when you pay for it. It sounds like you'd prefer to live in ancient Sparta. Why don't you?

    5. Re:They by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked, people pay to go to college and pay more on top of that for housing. The university is obligated to provide what it says it will provide (which in todays world almost always includes an internet connection). Beyond that, many college's internet use policy assumes general privacy, so unless you're hogging like crazy, I don't really see where it should matter what you're doing (until the law comes along). In "the real world", you are getting paid to perform a task. If you are using the internet, you aren't doing the task (though I don't think anyone really wants to get into the discussion of whether it's even humanly possible to focus on your job the entire workday). If someone is fired for "abuse" of the internet at work, they probably spent most of their day doing diddly squat, and would've gotten fired regardless. There's not really any connection between paying for a service and complaining when it's taken away and being paid to do something and then goofing off.

    6. Re:They by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      You're forgetting that plenty of colleges advertise that they have internet, cable, phone, whatever. If they suddenly take it away after you've paid tutition and housing costs, then they're violating the agreed upon conditions.

      Not to say that Amish University couldn't get off the ground and running, just that most colleges at this point are rather locked into what they said they'd do.

    7. Re:They by mattboston · · Score: 1

      sure there is. if you're abusing the network at school they have every right to terminate your access. read your school's policy. I've got some friends that are the sr network admins for large university's around me and they've cut people off all the time. Like I said, school provided internet is a privledge not a right. It's just like your drivers license, you can lose it any time.

    8. Re:They by secolactico · · Score: 1

      The school has an obligation to make sure they can use the internet for both school and pleasure

      Whoa! Go back and re-read what you wrote. Why would the school have an obligation to provide for "pleasure" or leisure.

      Higher education is not required by law. You don't *have* to attend an university. If you do so, it's under their rules. If they decree that you have to leave in their dorms but can't have internet, or cable TV or telephone or whatever... well, it sucks but it's their prerogative. I'm sure there are plenty of institutions that will let you leave off-campus or have third party providers for those services. Some might even provide them with no restrictions at all.

      Remember folks, when you go to college concentrate in your education. Party all you want, but don't get all worked up because of something as trivial as download speeds. If it's academic related your need for bandwith/unrestricted access, then make your case and take it to your advisor, professor or whatever.

      --
      No sig
    9. Re:They by secolactico · · Score: 1

      have to leave in their dorms

      DOH! I meant live.

      --
      No sig
    10. Re:They by Thisfox · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that these people probably went to this residential with the promise of a good internet connection. If it's in the lease agreement, they have a right to it, same as a right to hot and cold running water or to a certain number of meals a day, or electricity, if those happen to be in the lease too.

      In Australia people choose their residential on the basis of what it offers: good food, good internet connection, co-ed, special study/tutor offers, or whatever their personal priority is (often religion is a big priority). And if they don't get what they want, they are likely to leave the next year and tell everyone it's not worth paying to live there. Plenty of residentials, colleges and shared houses encircle the University, there is plenty of competition to get the richest and most worthwhile students into your college for the year. And a lack of a good connection will look bad, and make your college far less popular.
      Never having been to America, I have no idea what the case is over there of course. But it seems likely the word would get around, and the college would loose big money in the long run.

      Personally I think a form for internet using students to sign saying the College holds no responsibility would be enough. We had to do something similar in my first residential. Now they don't seem to bother...

    11. Re:They by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't take too much of the high and mighty route here. Internet access is like air to people these days. Too much throwing around their weight saying "You can't do this and you can't do that." will very likely cause students to look elsewhere for their education - to somewhere that does provide the kind of internet access they want. Back in 1999 when I chose my school the fact that they had broadband in the dorms (not everywhere did at that time) was a very major criteria in my choosing that school. College isn't like primary school where everybody has to go - students fork over huge sums of money to live and go to school at these places. Keeping students happy is (and should be) very high up on their list of priorities.

      These days when I look for a new house or apartment one of the first things I check on is whether broadband is available at that locale - if it isn't then I scratch it off the list and move on.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  13. Re:Probably Can't by joe+155 · · Score: 1

    I have to agree about not being able to win in this situation, I also agree that allowing bit torrent to run without restriction will most likely lead to lawsuits. I wonder if the uni could get round this by making the students sign a declaration that they are the sole persons responsible for what they do on the net. (I don't really get how it works though, if a student was downloading child porn the uni wouldn't be in trouble, would it?).

    Other than that the guy could have a full (and anonymous) discussion about what they would use it for, if it's downloading music are there not legal alternatives which they can use which the uni could pay for (or, add on to the cost of the rooms/'net) and then they would be fine not changing the systems

    --
    *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
  14. Limit how? by khasim · · Score: 2, Informative

    It all depends upon how you limit the bandwidth.

    #1. Shrink the individual pipes to total_bandwidth/number_of_students? So you always get sucky performance?

    #2. Cap the daily/weekly/monthly download/upload? So you get sucky performance during the first half of that period, but great performance once everyone else has hit their caps. And what happens when you have a legit need to go to a site after you've hit your cap?

    #3. Do it like Frame Relay where you can "burst" to the available bandwidth? But if everyone is try to burst, you get sucky performance anyway.

    #4. "Shape" the bandwidth based upon protocol and use one of the above methods to share that bandwidth? This works as long as there's no way to masquerade as a different protocol.

    Each way has its own problems.

    1. Re:Limit how? by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

      #2 doesn't work. Here at UVA, on-campus dorms has a 750 MB limit per day. You violate that three times in two weeks and you get capped to 56k for a few days. Do it again and it's a few weeks, and a third time and it's the rest of the semester. But everyone knows that all you have to do is find a wireless router not in use (in an empty library or in a classroom) and you circumvent that dorm-room limit. It's useful when downloading a Linux distro or legal content.

    2. Re:Limit how? by sniop1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here at my university, in the dorms connections have a 24 hour rolling bandwidth quota (updated hourly) of 750mb off campus traffic, which is sufficient for the overwhelming majority of users. Connections are not speed limited up to 750mb of traffic. After the 750mb has been reached, the user is placed into a "Class B" tier of service where connections are limited to 128kbit per flow. If the traffic exceeds 1gb per 24 hour period, users are moved into "Class C" service, which is 512kbit pool for all users in that tier. This system worked very well for us, allowing normal usage but curbing the people that abuse the connection. http://www.lartc.org/ has excellent documentation on how to get a setup like this up and running

    3. Re:Limit how? by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      Begin Linux Distro download, see 5k speed go to class, see cap totally breached.

      Some files are bigger than your caps, and the user has little control.

      Personally I don't like caps and instituting them seems like a waste of resources that could be better spent on faster connections.

    4. Re:Limit how? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the best way is to have officially designated approved software only allowed on the network. Microsoft has an actual "windows update" site which takes care of any security problems whereas linux has dozens of distros many of which have NO upgrade policy. Where I work, we disallow linux on the network, and anybody caught downloading illegal copyrighted software or running warez servers like bittorrent we cut off their internet access for the rest of the semester if we don't outright boot them off campus.

    5. Re:Limit how? by buysse · · Score: 1

      Excellent troll, good sir! />

      --
      -30-
  15. Are you sure that you're paying? by toddbu · · Score: 2, Insightful
    That said, you also gotta remember, these kids *are payig for* that dormroom Internet

    Well, yes and no. If the university has a clear $50/month charge on the bill then I'd say yes. I'm not sure all of them do though. If students really want ISP level internet access then they'd better be willing to pay for it, but I'm not sure that just because you're paying several thousand per year for tuition means that you get top-rate internet service. I really don't see internet access any different than dorm, food, or phone service.

    --
    If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    1. Re:Are you sure that you're paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying that universities shouldn't be required to provide decent food or housing? I go to a small school and we have no option but to live on campus in dorms. We have no other option than the school's phone service, cable and ISP. If there were another option I'd take it, but somehow I don't think the administration would really appreciate having their dorms fitted for outside services.

    2. Re:Are you sure that you're paying? by gravis777 · · Score: 1

      My university charged a $250 a year "technoloygy fee". The fee was mandnatory. It included internet and basic cable. This was new at the time, but I tried getting digital cable, cable modem, or DSL,and none were allowed at the college. I knew students that moved off-campus soley so they could get dsl. Now, when the university first installed gigabyte to the dorms in 1999, it was fast, at first. Before then, all the univeristy offered students was dialup, and it was through an offcampus provider. As internet usage increased, the number of outgoing lines decreased. People were complaining they could not get a line during peak hours to call home, call the police, or anything else.

      Problem was, when they installed ethernet to the dorms, the university did not increase its pipe. As more people started getting on the network, the speed took a hit to where it was slower than dialup.

      They eventually installed a couple more pipes. During business hours, speed to the dorms was throttled and speed to the adminsitration buildings and computer labs were unrestricted (from what I was told). To limit traffic, they put like 128k pipe on P2P systems, and like all P2P traffic for the whole university was pushed through that small pipe. As P2P at the time was mainly napster and winmx, and mostly used for mp3s, and as it was still fairly new at the time, I could still get on and get about 10k a file, which truthfully is not too terribly painful for a single mp3. Upside is, with them throttling P2P traffic, I could still browse websites, and got pretty good freakin speeds downloading from Usenet using a pay provider (as a small liberal arts college, the school did not host newsgroups on their servers).

      Now, I don't like the ideas of throttling traffic at all, if you are stuck with limited bandwidth, I say throttle bandwidth on certain ports rather than keep everything unthrottled and letting all bandwidth take a hit because someone is trying to download some pirated movie. If they want to download a Linux distro, let them do it in the lab where bandwidth is unthrottled and burn it to CD.

      Yeah, students are paying a technology fee, and most likely do not have access to other avenues. But don't block traffic, or stuff like that, just limit bandwidth on certain ports. Certainly do not cap bandwidth. Shoot, I downloaded (legally) Windows Vista Release Canidate 1 the other day, and it was 3.5 gig. I can easily download 10 gig a day in legal downloads (although its usually not that high, I don't have THAT much hard drive space), and think capping is stupid.

      And as far as using BitTorrent for Linux distros, yeah, you can, but I find 9 times out of ten I get faster downloads downloading the distros from a sunsite or ftp server at some university.

    3. Re:Are you sure that you're paying? by dodobh · · Score: 1

      In which case students should be allowed to get their own service from another ISP.

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
    4. Re:Are you sure that you're paying? by jackhererUK · · Score: 1

      "I go to a small school and we have no option but to live on campus in dorms." Why not, what's to stop a group of you simply renting somewhere instead?

    5. Re:Are you sure that you're paying? by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Some universities demand that students live on campus at least their freshman year.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    6. Re:Are you sure that you're paying? by jackhererUK · · Score: 1

      Really? That's a bit draconian, what if you live close enough to commute and decide to stay with your parents to save money, what if you are a mature student and/or have a family and do not wish to move out of your current residence? what if you simply do not like the accomodation and wish to live else where? What right do they even have to tell you where you can live?

    7. Re:Are you sure that you're paying? by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1
      What right do they even have to tell you where you can live?

      None, but how many first-year students can afford a lawyer to fight it? Heck, how many students have time to launch a class-action lawsuit for this kind of crap?

      The same kind of crap happened at my university. They implemented a mandatory health/dental plan (which doesn't even cover major things like reconstructive surgery) at my former university. You could "opt out", but only if you proved to the insurance company that you had equivalent-or-better service. Never mind that it's neither Sun Life's nor the university's business what insurance I have (privacy), or that the university has a monopoly for post-secondary education in the region and therefore shouldn't be able to dictate matters in the insurance industry (anti-trust), or that this is in a province that already has public health care.

    8. Re:Are you sure that you're paying? by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      The university I went to even had apartments on campus for married people, though they didn't require anyone to live on campus. I lived off campus my freshman year, then switched to a dorm room. $500 a semester (3 months) all utilities paid and janitorial staff to clean up the bathroom simply could not be beat, even if I had to share a prison cell sized room with another guy. This was before the dorms came with ethernet jacks so I had to dial in from my dorm room, but I'd have had to dial in from anywhere else as well. It became a better deal as years went by, since I grandfathered in all of the rate changes, so even after the dorms got ethernet and AC, I was still getting it quite cheap.

      The univerisities that do require it claim to do it because it gets incoming students familiar with the campus, the other students, and social activities, but really they do it because it gets them more money and keeps their dorms full.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  16. You might want to block email as well. by JumperCable · · Score: 1

    "Add to that the potential liability of making a service that by most reports has upward of 90% of its traffic fall into a 'legally questionable' gray area, how can I win in this situation?" -Author

    Well as long as you are at it, you might as well block email given that there are reports that upward of 82% of it is spam. 419 scams, get-rich-quick schemes, multi-level-marketing, fake viagra, medication without a prescription, blatant fraud, identity theft, phishing, Pump & Dump stock trades, you name a scam & e-mail has it.

    But still, for the 18% of mail that is legitamet, you still make use of it.

    Just as e-mail systems block spam, you would do better to block the copy-right infringement websites. Maybe redirect them to OSS software sites & Creative Commons music sites where people can legally explore & download music.

    1. Re:You might want to block email as well. by kz45 · · Score: 1

      "Well as long as you are at it, you might as well block email given that there are reports that upward of 82% [internetnews.com] of it is spam. 419 scams, get-rich-quick schemes, multi-level-marketing, fake viagra, medication without a prescription, blatant fraud, identity theft, phishing, Pump & Dump stock trades, you name a scam & e-mail has it"

      yeah, well, most people communicate through email (including professors) and email is light for the most part, light bandwidth, so you don't even have a valid point.

      Have you ever even used bittorrent? It automatically shares your connection with other people (which takes up a ton of bandwidth). If this was not the case, it would be no different than something like FTP, which is a non-issue.

      I have used bittorrent to download many linux distros and I usually have to start a download before I go to sleep at night because of the thrashing my cable modem takes when downloading.

      even a university Internet connection would be saturated with enough of these running.

    2. Re:You might want to block email as well. by westlake · · Score: 1
      Maybe redirect them to OSS software sites & Creative Commons music sites where people can legally explore & download music.

      This generation of gamers is showing a distinct lack of interest in Nethack.

      --- and while it would be nice to think that listeners are more interested in product from the independent labels, I suspect the "top of the chart" hits on BT pretty much track those posted by Billboard.

  17. How much bandwith do you have by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    How much bandwith do you have to the internet? that may be slowing it down as well this one school I was at only had a T1 line and it got real slow at times and that was with any Bittorrent being used.

    1. Re:How much bandwith do you have by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firewalling off BitTorrent server ports actually means people typically have to upload MORE data than those who have public access. By opening your ports the bandwidth requirement may drop significantly.

  18. dialup over a digital PBX phone! by r00t · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I got a little box that would go between the phone body and the handset. This little box provided an analog phone jack. It had a way to adjust for 4 different power levels, to be set according to your digital phone. I think it needed a wall wart for power.

    Procedure:

    1. take handset off hook
    2. tell modem to dial (any number will do)
    3. dial the real number using buttons on the phone
    4. enjoy the 9.6 kb/s connection

  19. Local Cache? by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Azerus supports the use of the Joltid peer cache for downloads. Someone suggested dynamic, public IP's. You could use IPv6. Although it doesn't make sense: Bittorent works through NAT's very well. But if there are bandwith issues then use a cache.

    --
    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    1. Re:Local Cache? by dodobh · · Score: 1

      This is a NAT with a crapload of users behind it, unlike your home commection.

      A rather important reason why NAT is considered evil by a lot of networking people.

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
  20. IPv6? by numbski · · Score: 1

    Now this puts you into the "public IP's" area, but seriously.

    You can still effectively firewall. You don't HAVE to NAT to have an effective firewall. Somewhere along the line this came into thought. Granted, that means all IP's are world-accessible, but that doesn't mean you have to allow traffic to reach those machines from outside.

    allow tcp 22 from any to (ipv6 hosts allowed ssh)
    allow tcp 80 from any to (ipv6 hosts allowed web access)
    block icmp from any to (ipv6 network)
    block from any to any

    You can get fancier than that if you want. Not a major problem. Only issue is that IPv6 can reach IPv4, but not the other way around. You have to encapsulate IPv6 into IPv4, but there's software for handling that.

    --

    Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    1. Re:IPv6? by numbski · · Score: 1

      BTW, if you do this, you'll want the following too:

      block smb from IPv6 network to world
      block databasing from IPv6 to world

      Probably a few others you'll want to toss in there that really should never go to the outside world. With windows hosts, you have to be careful.

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    2. Re:IPv6? by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      allow tcp 22 from any to (ipv6 hosts allowed ssh)
      allow tcp 80 from any to (ipv6 hosts allowed web access)


      What would this solve? You only need one open port to be able to host anything you want, including ssh and http.

    3. Re:IPv6? by xsonofagunx · · Score: 1

      block windows_host from ipv6 network

      ?

      I'm running Windows Server 2003 and I still had to say it...

  21. Re:Probably Can't by kz45 · · Score: 1

    "I have to agree about not being able to win in this situation, I also agree that allowing bit torrent to run without restriction will most likely lead to lawsuits. I wonder if the uni could get round this by making the students sign a declaration that they are the sole persons responsible for what they do on the net. (I don't really get how it works though, if a student was downloading child porn the uni wouldn't be in trouble, would it?)."

    If a university does not have the capability to limit bandwidth on a per-computer/connection basis, they need to block most if not all p2p services (and bittorrent).

    When I was going to college in 2000, my university had no blocks (and did not have the capability to throttle bandwidth). The Internet was not only unusable, but I would find kazaa and napster clients running on lab computers all the time with hundreds of connections (mostly people downloading porn). Now, all odd outgoing ports are blocked (besides the usuals: 80, 100, 25, 443,etc) and the Internet is faster then ever.

    We are also required to login with a username/password to get on the Internet, and any unlawful activity can be traced directly back to our account.

    It's one thing to appease your users, but another if it effects the QOS for 99% of the people on the Network.

  22. We have public IPs at Leeds by David+Horn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I was in uni residences in 2005, we were assigned public, static, IP addresses which were fine for bittorrent. The IP is permanent and tied to both your university username and MAC address, and they were quite tough if the RIAA or MPAA reported abuse to them.

    --
    PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
  23. NAT is Wrong by neuroxmurf · · Score: 0

    This has nothing to do with BitTorrent. Assigning non-routable IP addresses to anyone is wrong, a violation of good network design, and a compatibility nightmare. Assigning non-routeable addresses to FIVE THOUSAND STUDENTS is even worse.

    Every machine deserves a routeable IP, whether they use that IP to run BitTorrent, Skype, or just FTP.

    1. Re:NAT is Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great idea ... but what are you going to do if you have only a limited number of IPs available, not all universities do have a class B network.

      And it still might not improve the situation. The solution might be in clustering the firewall, enhancing the firewall hardware, improving the network topology. Doing some rate/connection limiting per internal IP might also be a good solution (people using bittorrent might be a bit limited, but it will be way better for all the other ones).

      Guillaume

  24. Tell kids to warez with FTP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nt

  25. You don't need public IPs by Guspaz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Many BitTorrent clients support reporting a different IP to the tracker than the one actually held by the computer. This is useful for routing INCOMING connections through a third party.

    Essentially what you need to do is have students connect to a server with a public IP via SSH, and set their BitTorrent client to report that server's IP to the tracker. The idea is that you set up an SSH tunnel that accepts connections on the remote end and forwards it over SSH. Most SSHv2 clients (such as PuTTY) support this functionality.

    Assign each user a specific port on the server (There are over 65 thousand ports, and each person needs just one), and provide them with a nice little automated solution to set up the tunnel. PuTTY has a command-line version called "plink" that makes this super easy. Just write a short VisualBasic application that does nothing but show a window with a button to start up and connect plink to the server, and shut down the process when the user is done. This way, all a user has to do if he wants to use bittorrent is run the application and click a button. Or better yet, just write a short batch script that the user can launch when they want to do torrent-related stuff.

    This is only one of the possible methods. As you can see, a computer doesn't need a public IP address in order to accept incoming connections via BitTorrent, since you can tunnel them. It should be noted that many BitTorrent clients also support proxies. uTorrent even supports proxies for peer-to-peer connections. And you may also want to look into P2P caching solutions, which could potentially significantly reduce the impact of BitTorrent on your university's connection.

  26. BT caching. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could implement BitTorrent cacheing. You would still need to consider the cost efficiency of this solution, as it will cost money, and it will not help students in their academic tasks.

    I think that the only commercial solution ATM is of CacheLogic, but the protocol itself is open, so others could follow.

    Anyway, your users should be glad. On my university, BitTorrent/ed2k/etc. don't work at all. I can not even ssh/telnet/pop3/irc to the outside world, and not transfer files via ICQ. (Skype started to work recently). The closest anyone got near BT was a last-year project that specifically involved p2p file sharing, so the students were allowed to place a server on the DMZ without root access, and with traffic accounting.

  27. My university... by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    ...did just the opposite. They gave public IPs to all the students, seemingly with no restrictions -- I could have as many IPs as I had network adapters, even on the University wireless. They blocked inbound Windows filesharing ports and outbound SMTP, and throttled BitTorrent, but other than that, I could just about saturate the 10 mbit pipe to my dorm room. I could saturate BitTorrent if I turned on header encryption.

    Basically, they decided that the web (port 80) needed to be as fast as possible, because that's where real work gets done.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:My university... by imbaczek · · Score: 1

      Basically, they decided that the web (port 80) needed to be as fast as possible, because that's where real work gets done.

      Saying such things on SLASHDOT?

    2. Re:My university... by xsonofagunx · · Score: 1
      [aside from this list of things they blocked/throttled] they gave public IPs to all the students seemingly with no restrictions
      Just had to laugh a little there... I went to RIT, and at the time (2003), we had as close to unrestricted access to everything under the sun as I could have dreamed of. During the year, I never came across something that was blocked, and if they were using packet shaping, I couldn't tell. 100mbit pipe to every room, public IPs, ssh was encouraged (to tunnel into the CS computers and work on your lab assignments remotely), I'm pretty sure at some point during the year I had an SMTP server running, I know I had a web server running most of the year, and FTP, Windows filesharing was open (and I came across some accidently shared sex videos of my [female] RA due to that). As many IPs as I wanted, dynamically assigned, but only to approved MAC addresses (also fun, given that for some reason I had two ethernet ports on my side of the room [my roommate had one on his side too], so just for fun I bonded the connections for a 200mbit max transfer rate.)

      I miss RIT. Too bad I can't afford it. :-/
    3. Re:My university... by heliocentric · · Score: 1

      came across some accidently shared sex videos of my [female] RA

      If ever there was a time for a /. post to have a link, that was it.

      --
      Wheeeee
  28. P2P cache by muftak · · Score: 1

    Cache BitTorrent and other P2P traffic. These guys make such a device:- http://www.cachelogic.com/

  29. Connection flood by j35ter · · Score: 1

    I administer a network of 30 inhouse and 400 remote workstations. Inhouse I have 2 NATted 4Mbps connections for 30 users, which should be enough for most cases. this summer, I had problems with the NAT routers slowing down almost to a halt. When I took a closer look, I found out that we had several BT clients running simultaneously with several hundred open connections!
    Now I have 1(one) instance of an emule client running, with a web interface where everyone can "order" some files, and a public share where he can pick them up...no complaints since then!
    ...OTOH, I often forget that you guys in the US have to be careful not to get sued... :P

    --
    Delta-Mike November Bravo Tango
  30. Caching bittorrent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about isp-level caching? Didn't Bram Cohen recently disparage encrypted bittorrent because it prevents ISPs from caching the bittorrent? That seems to imply this feature is possible and maybe even available.

  31. Run Teh Internal Tracker by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    FTW!

  32. Limiting upload speeds? by dimfeld · · Score: 1

    If you're having troubles with your Internet connection slowing down a bunch while using Bittorrent, you probably need to cap its upload speed. As of a long time ago, you couldn't do this with the official client (maybe you can now; I haven't checked). Try getting Bittornado which will allow you to limit the speed at which it uploads and should allow you to use it without monopolizing your bandwidth.

    1. Re:Limiting upload speeds? by kz45 · · Score: 1

      "you're having troubles with your Internet connection slowing down a bunch while using Bittorrent, you probably need to cap its upload speed. As of a long time ago, you couldn't do this with the official client (maybe you can now; I haven't checked). Try getting Bittornado [bittornado.com] which will allow you to limit the speed at which it uploads and should allow you to use it without monopolizing your bandwidth."

      This may be true, but most clients will kill your download speed when limiting your upload speed. I would rather have it kill my connection overnight than have to wait a couple of days for my downloads to finish.

  33. Socks5? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

    Why not just setup a socks5 proxy and have people use that for bittorent?

    As for the legality, is it your job to police people on what's legal or not? I mean, there are also legitimate uses for bittorent.

    --
    Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  34. I've got even worse news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's spelled "you're".

    1. Re:I've got even worse news by bernywork · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes it is. Did someone misunderstand what I was saying though? I doubt it. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

      --
      Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
  35. has *nothing* to do with tuition. by brunes69 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Dorm fees have *nothing* to do with tution. Student's don't subsidize other students' housing, they are piad by dorm fees. It's akin to rent.

    And when that rent lists "high speed internet included" as an option, and on top of that you are not allowed to procure your own alternative internet access, that Internet access should be as unencumbered as is reasonable.

    1. Re:has *nothing* to do with tuition. by toddbu · · Score: 1
      Dorm fees have *nothing* to do with tution. Student's don't subsidize other students' housing, they are piad by dorm fees. It's akin to rent.

      Sorry if I wasn't clear. I wasn't trying to argue that they were linked. I know because I just paid separate fees for my kid's college bill recently. The bill is broken out into four charges: (1) tuition, (2) room, (3) meals, and (4) technology access and student activity fee. Because internet access is broken out separately, we know what it's worth. And I'll tell you, for $112.50 for four months my kid can't expect the same kind of service that I pay $70/month for here at home.

      and on top of that you are not allowed to procure your own alternative internet access, that Internet access should be as unencumbered as is reasonable.

      Sure you have options. It's called "a different school". If internet access is that important then find another university with policies that you like. Let the market decide. But if my son had made his decision based on which school had the lowest latency for gaming then I would have questioned his priorities.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    2. Re:has *nothing* to do with tuition. by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1
      And I'll tell you, for $112.50 for four months my kid can't expect the same kind of service that I pay $70/month for here at home.

      Indeed, but the option should be there. Keep in mind that not every student is fresh out of high school, and even the ones that are might need more Internet access if they're in technical fields than they would in, say, language arts.

      Sure you have options. It's called "a different school". If internet access is that important then find another university with policies that you like. Let the market decide.

      I'm tired of hearing "let the market decide" from people who don't understand even the most basic economic theory.

      You only took introductory Economics, didn't you? Apparently you missed the part about the effects of elasticity and barriers-to-entry on efficiency.

      Higher education isn't a commodity in a perfectly competitive market. Except in densely-populated areas, it's not even close. Thus, there is no reason to believe that "letting the market decide" would result in an efficient outcome.

      But if my son had made his decision based on which school had the lowest latency for gaming then I would have questioned his priorities.

      Yes. However, that's irrelevant here. For starters, gaming uses a negligible amount of bandwidth.

    3. Re:has *nothing* to do with tuition. by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      Incorrect!

      Unless you're allowed to seek your own, it should be unencumbered, period.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  36. public IP space by jon787 · · Score: 1

    I guess another question is whether your university has the public IP space to actually do that for all your students. If you don't already have enough public IP space then you're gonna have to deal with begging ARIN for a bigger allocation which might not be worth your time. /my university has a /16 //its only using 16% of it by my last check

    --
    X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).
  37. Re:They should be lucky... by billstewart · · Score: 1

    When I was an undergrad, we had to walk a quarter mile uphill in the snow to get to the nearest computer center to use keypunches, or (later, after I'd moved to north campus and the computer center had upgraded) 3/4 mile across mostly-flat snow to get to the one computer center that had some Decwriters and a couple of CRTs on the mainframe and a couple of PLATO terminals. Modems existed back then, but we didn't have an ASR33 in the dorm or fraternity house and there wasn't anything on our IBM-centric campus to talk to with it even if we had :-) We did have phones in the dorm rooms.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  38. Bandwidth should be your bigger concern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The big issue isn't legality, it's bandwidth (sort of). Bitorrent opens up a flurry of connections compared to say FTP. Wheras FTP opens one connection and leaves it open and sticks with it for the duration of the download, Bitorrent open many, many connections throughout the download process and continually queries known clients for what parts of the file they have. Different clients handle this process differently, but the basic Bitorrent client is by far the worst. A single download of a single file using the vanilla Bitorrent has brought my entire 125 KBps DSL connection to a screeching halt before. Either way, for every connection that is opened with another client, the queries must be passed through the campus routing system. Although these queries do not take up any real bandwidth, they occupy the processing time of the router. If the router doesn't have enough power to handle this traffic, ALL traffic gets choked off. There may be plenty of bandwidth left to use, but the router is too busy to deliver it to people.

  39. Social problem needs social solution by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    Either way, (My semi-educated opinion) it's not an engineering problem, it's a managerial problem about how the whole lot is being run at the moment and it obviously needs a re-think on how things are being done.

    Bingo; yet again, it's an attempt to solve a policy/managerial/social problem with a technological solution. Almost any time this is attempted, failure results.

    As to the OP, if you want to provide customer satisfaction, and your customers want BT, then you need to provide externally-facing IP addresses and allow as much traffic to each client as is technologically and economically feasible. The law ought to be on your side, since you'd be acting as a 'common carrier,' just like any other ISP. Provided you respond to and comply with any court orders or other legal requests for action by copyright holders, and don't attempt to shield you users from the consequences of their actions, you ought to be OK.

    I think that the cost of internet access to each student should be broken out on their residence-fee bill, so they know what they're paying: if they're only paying $5/mo for it, then they can't expect even Comcast-like service and customer satisfaction. But if they're paying $75 or $80 a month for a 128kbit pipe, on top of which you layer tons of NAT and filtering, then they probably are within their rights to be pissed. I certainly would be.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  40. Use a Residence Exchange Program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heya, I'll tell you how things got done back in my frosh year.

    A few brilliant members of our computer sciences division brewed up a marvelous piece of code. Essentially, it was a piece of P2P software that connected all users in all the dorms. Upload and download speeds were astonishing at easily over 500kB/s. Overall, it was better for the students because they could get what they wanted off of each other very, very fast. While Bit-torrent and other P2P programs were definitely choked, there was still a 5kB/s leeway. A dedicated few students used it to stream new content into the main data pool. The system was called ResX and was sponsored by the University for the most part. It kept the traffic inside the university, which is the first great hurdle. As a student, it was awesome.

    Of course, my university is in Canada. Legality about filesharing definitly has a looser definition due to our levy on recordable media. Rumor has it, ResX isn't used anymore, or at least it's functionality has been cripped due to political drama. The tricky thing is, once you condone file sharing, your University can be easily targeted by the powers that be. An individual with his own IP address and line isn't much of a target.

  41. Re:Probably Can't by jZnat · · Score: 1

    What's on port 100? :/

    --
    'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  42. Re:Probably Can't by kz45 · · Score: 1

    Sorry, I meant port 110 :-D

  43. Like others have said... by kosmosik · · Score: 1

    What for they need BT protocol? I see most of legitimate uses of BT as downloading Linux (or other freenix) ISOs, commercial games demos and other legitimate big files.

    If they (the users) are downloading illegal stuff they should be prohibited to do that.

    What I've read most of Slashdot users are suggesting is to set up mirrors of those stuff to let them download it of local network - great idea. But add to it that you do not need to make yourself an admin of those mirrors. Just set up an apply process for a mirror maintainer and let the students maintain the mirrors themselves (even give the admin-ones way to use BT to mirror).

    That way they can:
    - learn how to operate such systems
    - learn how to practically (as in social siences) operate such systems
    - get some responsibility and management skills

    1. Re:Like others have said... by kosmosik · · Score: 1

      > What I've read most of Slashdot users are suggesting is to set
      > up mirrors of those stuff to let them download it of local network
      > - great idea. But add to it that you do not need to make yourself
      > an admin of those mirrors. Just set up an apply process for a mirror
      > maintainer and let the students maintain the mirrors themselves
      > (even give the admin-ones way to use BT to mirror).

      Actually all you need to do is give them (the maintainers) an account of one of the servers with proper shell access, bandwith/limits, monitoring and so on - that way they can on their own create communieties like gaming.yourorg.edu, linux.yourorg.edu that host mirrors of hot files and also (if you decide to make it public) serve others.

      To be honest that is nothing that I've invented myself - most of schools (that are worth of attention) in my country functions that way (including my one).

  44. Usenet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Set up a usenet server. Many ISPs have one, so it must be legally ok. Let the students satiate their piratical instincts with that.

  45. Change the way they use the internet? by crossmr · · Score: 1

    First things first:
    Separate residential network from the rest of the university.
    Give it big fat internal pipes.
    hint that there would be nothing to stop someone from running an internal tracker that wouldn't be limited in speed.
    Let them do what they will with it.
    It probably wouldn't take long for someone to set something up and people were sharing most of what they wanted anyway over it.
    Mirror linux distros and other legit items, or create an electronic form where a student could request a copy of a legit item, when its provided to them, they could use it on the internal tracker.
    Better yet set up your own internatl tracker for those kinds of items, someone will realize they work, and set up one for non-legit items.

  46. Try to move most of the traffic inside by Sloppy · · Score: 1
    Add to that the potential liability of making a service that by most reports has upward of 90% of its traffic fall into a 'legally questionable' gray area

    Until we have strong AI so that a cyber-lawyer inside your firewall can figure out whether a packet should have the 'evil bit' set or not, nobody is going to be able to identify whether a bittorrent (or any other protocol's) transaction is legal or not. It's no use to try. So I wouldn't worry about whether it's legal or not: you're never going to know. That didn't stop you from allowing web traffic, did it?

    IMHO, the thing to do is to limit external connections in such a way that they are possible, but appear "expensive" to the client, so that intranet clients will be encouraged to connect to one another (instead of the outside) whenever possible. Ideally, a large file should only be transferred over your outside pipe once regardless of how many users are downloading it.

    And along those lines, set up any sort of caching services that you can.

    I suspect that what ISPs and Universities, really need is some kind of internal torrent watcher/cache thingie, that figures out what torrents are popular and then downloads the files and serves them (via bt) to the intranet. i.e. instead of banning bittorrent, run it on one of your machines, so that clients cheaply connect to that machine inside your network, instead of expensively connect to somewhere outside.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  47. Students sign a waiver saying they will be held... by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

    Students sign a waiver saying they will be held liable for all illegal activity that perform, and that the university holds absolutely no responsibility.

  48. What about: by EdMcMan · · Score: 1
    • UPnP
    • Reccomending users use clients that support NAT to NAT connections
    • Proxying
  49. Require a Firewall by EightBits · · Score: 1

    Provide your students with one static IP address per dorm room. Require the students to use a firewall and sign an agreement that is legally binding to that sense. This will allow them to use the built-in WinXP firewall, iptables in Linux distros, cable routers, etc... You may even try to go so far as to require that they allow non-invasive attacks or just simple port scans on their PCs to make sure their firewall is in place and operating. That's touchy as hell, so ask the lawyers before doing it. It could also get expensive to implement, so consider it a nice bonus to the students if you can do it. If you do it right, you could even have automated reports going to the students about their particular firewall tests to let them know what their status is and possibly how they can reduce their risks.

    The nice thing about this is it is a proactive step to *help* dorm network security. It helps protect your students' computers without requiring them to spend more money to do it using built in firewalls. Or, if the students will have more than one computer in the room, they can get a router anyway or setup a NAT PC and will probably still be behind a reasonable firewall.

    Additionally, it takes the burden of maintaining the firewall off you. Mostly, this absolves you of responsibility. If your firewall were to get hacked and a students' PC invaded, the fact you provided a firewall makes you responsible in the eyes of a court. However, moving the responsibility to the students by getting a signed agreement requiring them to implement a firewall with certain specifications can alleviate that responsibility from your own shoulders.

    If you have a hard time selling it, use the VD analogy. Would you have sex with a prostitute without using a condom? Then why wouldn't you use a firewall for your PC?

    Once this is done, as someone mentioned earlier, use traffic shaping on your end to make sure that a few people aren't monopolizing the dorm bandwidth and you're good to go.

    1. Re:Require a Firewall by xsonofagunx · · Score: 1

      Excellent plan, the university should go into the business of selling condoms.

      Weird analogy, having to qualify the "would you have sex with a prostitute" part with "without using a condom". Granted, I personally just wouldn't have sex with a prostitute. Doesn't mean I wouldn't get online though.

    2. Re:Require a Firewall by heliocentric · · Score: 1

      Do you meet your postitutes (which we established you don't get for sexual purposes) online?

      If so, do you double bag it then?

      What if you look but don't touch? Should you wear a condom to the strip joint?

      --
      Wheeeee
  50. Re:i2 brute? by xsonofagunx · · Score: 1

    When I was at RIT, we used Direct Connect (well, DC++), and some genious (possibly at U of R?) came up with the i2hub - a DC hub that was to be populated only by students at universities utilizing the Internet 2 network. Absofuckinglutly amazing transfer rates. 3-5MB/s (bytes, not bits) from someone at a university 1500 miles away. We could just about saturate our 100mbit lines when downloading from others inside the university's local network too (9-11MB/s [again, bytes, not bits] wasn't unheard of, nor rare).

    They were shut down like half-way through the 2004 school year, I believe. I wasn't attending anymore at that time, but anyways - that was probably the best P2P experience most people could ever dream of.

  51. NAT vs PAT by stikk · · Score: 1

    Lets step back from the problem and review the difference between PAT and NAT.

    PAT (Port Address Translation) is the most common way of sharing a single Public IP address with many hosts.
    think ONE -> MANY.

    NAT (Network Address Translation) is the process of having a single Public IP address point to a single internal address.

    You problem is simple, the solution is to simply increase your NAT pool to the amount of internal clients.
    This does require more public IP addresses as you stated, however it does not mean everyone gets a direct public address. you can have internal users REQUEST a NAT address rather then a PAT (shared) address.
    The amount of people requesting NAT may not be the entire dorm. and you can still apply your normal firewall rules, just permit the port serverices you wish (in your case its bittorent). In some situations like DSL, the DSLAM can do this for you, and you can even charge the dorm users who want their one NAT address more in fee's or similar if needed to pay for your new IP SWIP.

    I'm not a big bittorent user, however users should be able todo what they wish, thats what a EUA is for. don't blame technology, just use it the way the RFC describes it, not how vendors lock you in.

  52. Simple solution by aminorex · · Score: 1

    Assign each user a specific port for bittorrent traffic. Tell them to configure their client software to use that port.
    DNAT that port. Voila, full-speed bittorrent. Moreover, the user is identifiable by port, so you need not fear liability any more than does my cable company. You are protected under U.S. law, as long as you do take downs upon
    accusation, and restore service if the accusation is contested.

    In the university environment, I think you'll find that illicit use of BT is probably lower than is illicit use of the library.

    --
    -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  53. Wonderful FUD by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

    Great, so apparently public IP addresses have "legal issues" now. What a bunch of crap.

    1. Re:Wonderful FUD by bernywork · · Score: 1

      I think you are missing the point. Assigning out IPs isn't the issue; it's assigning them out, and then allowing BitTorrent to hammer their internet link pipes, also with potentially more activity going on through BitTorrent you are becoming a larger target for the **AA to aim for.

      Public IPs aren't the problem in and of themselves, the poster has said though that they are limiting the people who they connect through by using NAT. Public IP addresses get rid of this obstacle.

      --
      Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
    2. Re:Wonderful FUD by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      I realize that (and I still think it's a dubious claim), but the way the article is written, it looks as if "public IP addresses == legal problems". Murphy's law dictates that those people will be on the other end of your tech support call.

    3. Re:Wonderful FUD by bernywork · · Score: 1

      Yep, they will be on the other end of the phone, granted, but do you have a technical answer for this poster?

      Can you tell him how to get around this issue?

      --
      Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
    4. Re:Wonderful FUD by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1
      Yep, they will be on the other end of the phone, granted, but do you have a technical answer for this poster?

      No, I don't have a technical answer. It's not a technical problem, as you have already pointed out.

  54. Peercache by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Peercache does something similar to a web cache, but for P2P traffic. It's a commercial product but could be worth a look.

    The basic problem of having machine behind NAT, and thus unable to accept incomming connections, seems impossible to avoid unless you can get a block of 1000+ IPs.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  55. MOD PARENT UP by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

    Figure out whether you think you have a case, then get a bunch of people together to split the cost of hiring a lawyer to write up a nastygram to send to the landlords.

  56. My proposal, has worked just fine at my university by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi!

    In the university where I work, we made use of HTB (http://luxik.cdi.cz/~devik/qos/htb/) along with other "traffic shapping" tools. I don't have the scripts on hand, but it is based on the "wondershaper" you can find here: http://www.lartc.org/howto/lartc.cookbook.ultimate -tc.html I just spaiced it up with IMQ.

    Anyway, at our university we gave everyone a public IP address, because it was already done that way. But I proposed to change it (it hasn't been done yet, but it will). My proposal is as follow:

    Assign private IP addresses via DHCP (previous 802.1x auth, or at least MAC access control, yes the address goes static becuase the DHCP have MAC-based IP address assignation), and add several "localized" IDSs and have one traffic shaper at the Internet link. The traffic shaper have simple rules: high priority to "real time" protocols,medium to "bulk" preffered traffic (http, mainly), slighly lower to "not interactive" protocols (like SMTP), and low to the rest (here you will have BT, or whatever). The idea is: if there is nothing better to do with the link, you will have fast BT download.

    As for these kind of services, we decided to use more than one IP address and to SNAT instead of MASQUERADE on them, and then have each pool of address into one external address. Then, we create (via script, off course), the DNAT rules for port forwarding for income conections, and assign two ports to each internal IP (two TCP, two UDP (the same port numbers, but for TCP and UDP), then we would inform the users wich external IP/ports where assigned to each workstation (we are still not sure if publicate the info in the intranet server, or if we would send a massive e-mail). The idea is: the user have two TCP and two UDP ports, he/she will decide what to do with these (they could even create a web server or whatever), the thing is: they are being watched (no it detail), but we do internal scans of network to identify which services are running on each computer, and we have rules that forbid having SMTP. We have the ports firewalled (outgoing), but they could still have and "incoming" SMTP, and thus we would detect it, and inform the responsable user.

    Yes, all of this is done with a Linux computer (well, more than one if you count the IDS).

    Anyway, this is a "resumed" version of the idea, because I have no time to explain it all, but at least the "special services" are covered.

    Hope this helps,

    Ildefonso Camargo

  57. Re:Probably Can't by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

    Aww, idn't that just too bad? The wittwe pipes awen't handwing the twaffic!

    For what they charge in tuition, -GET- -BIGGER- -PIPES-! Not throttle! Either that or allow students to seek outside solutions.

    --
    To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.