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Combatting Global Warming With Artificial Volcanos?

An anonymous reader writes, "Some scientists are suggesting that a short-term solution to global warming could be to inject sulfate-based aerosols into the stratosphere as a 'sunlight-reflecting, cooling foil.' Tom Wigley of the National Center for Atmospheric Research says that adding just 5 million metric tons of sulfur dioxide annually to the stratosphere 'would have a significant influence.'" From the article: "Constant aerosol production also could mean we wouldn't have blue skies anymore, and it could reduce incoming solar radiation enough to hobble such imperatives as replacing fossil fuel with solar energy technologies."

17 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. please don't mess more by yagu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anyone who needs evidence science is an inexact science need only remember Carl Sagan and his wrong prediction on the Kuwait oil fires (emphasis mine):

    Sagan famously predicted on ABC's Nightline in 1991 that smoky oil fires in Kuwait (set by Saddam Hussein's army) would cause a worldwide ecological disaster of black clouds resulting in global cooling. Retired atmospheric physicist and climate change skeptic Fred Singer dismissed Sagan's prediction as nonsense, predicting that the smoke would dissipate in a matter of days. In his book The Demon-Haunted World, Sagan gave a list of errors he had made (including his predictions about the effects of the Kuwaiti oil fires) as an example of how science is tentative.

    And that prediction explicitly about the effects of something on our atmosphere, ostensibly by one of our most noted intellects. The notion that we have any notion of what the effects of this effort would ulitmately be is indeterminant, and could introduce far more disastrous and devastating unforeseen results.

    1. Re:please don't mess more by bradkittenbrink · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow, Carl Sagan made a prediction in a field that he wasn't an expert in and he was wrong. All that example proves to me is that astronomy and astrobiology are inexact climatology.

    2. Re:please don't mess more by khallow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...and his wrong prediction on the Kuwait oil fires (emphasis mine)...

      You don't need to warn the reader when you are emphasizing parts of your own writing. Who else could it be? A helpful slashdot editor? A script kiddy from Belarus?
    3. Re:please don't mess more by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      not only were there dozens of them, one was Carl Sagan. I immediately shelved the book, since they obviously weren't using authorities as authors.

      Look, just because he was one of the authors (as in, "person employed to produce the thing you'll be reading") doesn't mean his role in producing that book was: "content expert." In fact, his greatest talent was in making technical, or conceptually complex issues more digestible by the lay reader (or viewer). If I was writing a book that included material derived from or supported by science from multiple disciplines, and I had the budget to put a guy like Sagan on the team, you better believe I'd do it. Just for the readability of it. Most scientists are terrible writers.

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    4. Re:please don't mess more by dbIII · · Score: 3, Insightful
      They were both wrong - which goes to show that people who study one feild do not usually know as much as people who study another and actually look at the evidence. It wasn't the end of the world but it was bad enough to turn snow black way off in the Himalayas for weeks after the fires started.

      As for sulphur dioxide - when it gets wet you get acid rain, which is why there is so much effort in removing it from flue gasses whenever a lot of stuff is burned.

  2. Not to mention reducing photosynthesis... by Linux_ho · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The primary means of fixating atmospheric CO2...

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    1. Re:Not to mention reducing photosynthesis... by Linux_ho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Photosynthesis is carbon-neutral, as it's an element of the carbon cycle. In other words, any carbon that gets captured by plants go right back up when it's breathed out by foraging animals. I suppose that's true over infinite time. From a practical viewpoint, however, animals don't eat all the carbon that gets removed from the atmosphere by plants. Most of it goes into cellulose, which most animals don't have the capacity to digest, and ends up in things like the two-by-fours in your house, or humus in the forest floor, and takes years to biodegrade. An immediate reduction in global photosynthesis would result in an immediate increase in atmospheric CO2.

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  3. What a fucking horrible idea. by Spazntwich · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Fact of the matter is we still don't know a whole lot about the planet's temperature cycles. If we do this, and then run into a "random" cooling period, the effects could swing back around and be catastrophic.

  4. Re:Sounds to me like..Acid Rain by VernonNemitz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Burning sulfur is not such a good idea.

  5. Re:Acid rain by bcattwoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not that this idea isn't totally half-baked but they are talking about "injecting" it into the stratosphere, which is above the level where rain is formed.

  6. Re:Similar to a proposed "solution" to nuclear war by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1) Wouldn't do anything for bombers or other delivery methods.
    2) Would forever close off space exploration, thereby stranding us here and cutting us off from sending out probes, etc.

    The worst thing is, some considered the second a small price to pay to guarantee their safety.


    To me the worst thing is that they'd make the decision to sacrifice access to space for safety... but then completely ignore point #1, meaning they aren't sacrificing access to space for safety, but for an illusion of safety.

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  7. Re:Futurama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Hence, we should instead build a giant mirror to redirect some of the Sun's rays, thus cooling the Earth.

  8. I choose survival, thanks. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your first sentence and the ones following it don't seem to follow each other. At first you imply that global warming doesn't really exist -- I disagree, but I understand how this could be a concern. Certainly, we wouldn't want to take any sort of drastic action before we knew what we were getting into.

    But it's your second sentence that really bothers me: "We'll probably end up detonating some sort of nuclear bomb to try to counter-act the forces of nature." This sounds a lot like a sort of pastorialist, head-in-sand point of view; in fact if you replace "nature" with "God," it starts to sound downright medeival.

    If we knew that some sort of disastrous climate change was imminent, and if we had the means to prevent it, don't you think we should? To hell with "nature" or 'God' or anybody else's 'plan;' if it's going to be bad for us, then surely we ought to do something to prevent it, if it be in our power to do so. In the face of an existential threat to our species, certainly any action ought to be justified if it stands a chance of preventing our demise.

    I'm not saying that we should start throwing nukes down volcanos tomorrow, but I'm just saying that it seems like a refusal to "counteract nature" could easily turn us into nothing but a bunch of fossils. It's a rejection not only of technology (since what have we been doing as a species since we first discovered fire, but counteracting nature?), but of humanity in general, since what distinguishes us from animals is in large part our ability to not be ruled by nature, by our ability to choose to shape our own environment to suit ourselves.

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    1. Re:I choose survival, thanks. by lunaslide · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If we knew that some sort of disastrous climate change was imminent, and if we had the means to prevent it, don't you think we should?

      Herein lies the problem, with that word you used to start your sentence. I'm reasonably convinced that a global climate change of some sort is in progress, as are most people. But we are far from having proved that human beings had any significant amount to do with it. You can throw around figures of this much of x ppm is in the atmostphere and that the average temperture has changed over y number of years, but given our short lived observation of the planet's macro climate change cycle (read: millions of years), to make the assumption that we are causing whatever trend we currently are experiencing is the height of arrogance. We can and have taken polar ice core samples, cross-sections of ancient trees, done soil analysis and other such measurements to get a better picture of the system over time, but in essence we are still looking through keyholes at an elephant. We really not ought to be trying to influnece the system without having a greater understanding of it. And there is no one in the world who deserves the authority to be making such decisions for the whole world (least of all anyone at the UN).

      To make an analogy about complex systems and influences on them, if you monkey around with various configuration settings on a UNIX system without understanding how they work, the result is undefined (not knowable). Considering how much more complex the global climate system is (arguably far too complex to understand at our current level of technology) compared to UNIX, and how much more critical it is for our survival, doing nothing is still a much better option than doing something for which the consequences are unforseeable. Earth has done a pretty good job of maintaining balance without us for the last several million years, give or take the occasional supervolcano or cometfall. Who the hell are these guys to think they can solve a problem that has not even been adequately defined?

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      lunaslide
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  9. Why is this in the 'science' section? by Gothmolly · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Can't we have some other type of section, maybe for dumb pseudo-scientific ideas? Like a 'creationism' section or something...

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  10. Global Warming Causes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This solution sounds good, am I understanding it right? They'll burn more fires, then there'll be more rain, and the earth's temperature will be a nice constant (energy from sun - standard dissapation)? Then again, that could be what's causing the global warming, since the heat input from the sun > dissapation. Or equal to. But it's probably not less than.

  11. Corrected analogies by electroniceric · · Score: 2, Insightful
    But we are far from having proved that human beings had any significant amount to do with it.

    Sigh*. Once again, I'm struck by how people who frequent a nerd site can be so ignorant of what the science community says. Look, the climate science community has spoken on this subject in about as much unison as a bunch of cranky scientists ever get to: a substantial component of warming is due to anthropogenic carbon inputs (read any statements or reports from climate science organizations and this will be evident). If you've got substantial evidence to the contrary, please do publish it in a peer-reviewed journal immediately, as it is doubtless an important part of the scientific discussion. Otherwise please do us the favor of noting that your statements are discordant with 30+ years of scientific research.

    I happen to think your UNIX analogy is a rather good one, but its present version relies on a critical faulty assumption, and that is that continue the current trajectory is "doing nothing". We are quite clearly not doing nothing, we are pushing a major lever of climate with increasing strength. The right way to analogize what we're doing is changing and deleting files from /etc and /bin at random or according to some criteria orthogonal to the system's design. As you correctly point out, the exact reaction of the system en route to being inoperable is highly unpredictable. But keep deleting files, and there's very little question you're going to end up with a totally hosed UNIX box. Climate scientists have not presupposed to appoint anyone to make any mandated global changes or methods of reducing carbon emissions. All they've said is that we have to stop deleting files soonest.

    You point out that Earth has done a good job moderating climate for millions of years. That's true, and it's due to a robust biosphere. As humans have grown to be the most populous macrofauna, we have dramatically changed a lot of those balances. In particular, since the industrial revolution our capacity to change those balances has grown dramatically, but our understanding and willingness to preserve them has moved much more slowly. Earth has never naturally produced hypoxic zones hundreds of kilometers across, nor has it dried out an ocean and filled it with chemical residues. These are unbalancing events due to changes to the environment not well integrated with the biosphere's functioning. That's not to say that sort of thing should never be done or can't be remediated, it's just to say that our ability to cause change in the environment around is now so great that we need to integrate better with the "legacy" functioning of the biosphere in our designs, or we're wreck the whole infrastructure. Throwing a nuke down a volcano is not a good example of this. Improving the natural capacity of algae to fix CO2 into cellulose and oils is a good example. Genetic modification of food is probably more in the middle - it's sometimes an effective enhancement to natural systems, and other times radically damaging. That's why I tend to be very skeptical of these geo-engineering projects that have very little component of restoring or enhancing biosphere functioning.