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Hubble Camera Shuts Down

Maggie McKee writes "Hubble's main camera is offline again, but the problem does not appear to be with its power supply, like it was this summer. This time, the issue seems to be the electronics on the sharpest of its three camera-like channels, the High Resolution Channel. NASA says the worst-case scenario is that the ACS could lose half the channel's field of view, so it would take longer to observe its targets. If the problems are truly unrelated, it's been an especially unlucky few months for this instrument!"

24 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. Somebody set up us the bomb! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Main screen turn on.

  2. Re:This time, its the Americans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, I've observed the opposite. A large portion of slashdot dislikes the spaceshuttle, regularly saying something along the lines of, "If only we used disposable rockets like we used to, like the Russians, we'd be better off"

  3. Re:This time, its the Americans... by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Also, remember that it was the Russian space station that the oil drilling crew docked to when blasting off to save the world. It's too bad that the thing exploded, though. Stupid made in Taiwan parts.

  4. I think NASA is hiding something... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe the camera got smacked by a lost bolt from the International Space Station?

  5. Re:This time, its the Americans... by Yehooti · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why blame anyone when leading edge technology has a problem? It happens. The Russian's deserve our hats off to them for their dependable rides to the ISS. The US deserves a hat tip for the brilliant images brought to us of space, from space. Though different, it is all high tech and subject to the problems that always happen when we're pushing the envelope. I just don't see how we would blast the Russians anymore than we would blast the US, if the US has a failure in one of their most publicized systems.

  6. "Do0d I am so stOned", said Hubble by iluvovaltine · · Score: 2, Funny

    I bet NASA has some sweet solar vaporizers. Cosmic weed...? Did someone call p-funk or something?

    --
    Die when you die -GG Allin
  7. cue the shuttle enthusiasts by grozzie2 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Ok, cue up all the shuttle enthusiasts to pipe in now with the 'drastic need for a hubble service mission'.

    When you do though, ask a simple reality check question. With shuttle trips running on the order of a billion dollars these days, what will generate more actual scientific data? Squander those kind of funds on a rocket ride to fix the aging hubble, or, invest half of it in modern ground based observing infrastructure, then take the other half and feed it into the scientific welfare system known as grants over a period of 20 years.

    1. Re:cue the shuttle enthusiasts by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Good. I'm fine with one last major repair mission. There won't be a replacement to the Hubble and it is the only decent telescope for some wavelengths, those that the atmosphere absorbs which no ground telescope can touch. The Webb won't really be a replacement.

    2. Re:cue the shuttle enthusiasts by JackieBrown · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wrong.....

      Should read "Unless there are astronauts involved, and unless something terrible may happen to them, you won't get anyone's attention.

    3. Re:cue the shuttle enthusiasts by Shag · · Score: 2, Informative
      With shuttle trips running on the order of a billion dollars these days, what will generate more actual scientific data? Squander those kind of funds on a rocket ride to fix the aging hubble, or, invest half of it in modern ground based observing infrastructure, then take the other half and feed it into the scientific welfare system known as grants over a period of 20 years.


      Modern ground based observing infrastructure... we've already got that, don't we? With adaptive optics or interferometry, Keck can get angular detail smaller than the best plate scale Hubble has available. Combining AO and interferometry, they should be able to do almost 10x better than Hubble. And the technology being developed for Webb? The instrument labs aren't in space. The prototype of the 16-megapixel sensor array for NIRCAM (which will be on Webb) lives at the U. of Hawaii observatory, in a three-year-old camera called ULBCAM. Production versions of the array have already been built into cameras for other terrestrial observatories, including the WFCAM wide-field camera at the UK Infrared Telescope (UKIRT). So by the time Webb launches, this will be "old" tried-and-true technology.

      Yes, there are some things that are developed specifically for use in space, then found to be useful for something on earth, but a lot more things that are sent into space are designed, developed, prototyped, and as the case above shows sometimes even implemented on the ground long before they go into space.
      --
      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    4. Re:cue the shuttle enthusiasts by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While I generally agree with you, the billion dollar figure is an *average* cost per mission, not a marginal cost per mission. On the margin, the incremental mission cost is about $60M dollars. If you "cost" out some smaller fraction of the fixed costs to a marginal shuttle mission added to service Hubble, you might be able to justify saying it "costs" a few hundred million.

      Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_program .

      Anyway, the cost of the Hubble was $1.5B at time of launch (excluding all the operating and maintenance costs since then). If we assume the replacement cost would be about that much (less design cost, but in 2006 dollars it would be costlier - let's figure that's a wash), then another shuttle mission would be well worth it over a replacement Hubble telescope.

      Of course the flip side of this is that if you are using Hubble service as the *justification* for running the shuttle program in the first place, then it would be legit to assign all the current fixed costs incurred as part of the Hubble maintenance bill, in which case it probably would just be cheaper to replace the damned thing.

    5. Re:cue the shuttle enthusiasts by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Informative
      With shuttle trips running on the order of a billion dollars these days, what will generate more actual scientific data? Squander those kind of funds on a rocket ride to fix the aging hubble, or, invest half of it in modern ground based observing infrastructure,

      Spending on Hubble - absolutely no question. Ground based infrastructure (no matter how modern) cannot;
      • see the wavelengths that Hubble can (they don't penetrate the atmosphere)
      • see as faint an object as Hubble can (the light doesn't penetrate the atmosphere)
      • see as fine a details as Hubble can (that pesky atmosphere again - though here they are getting better, but still nowhere near what Hubble can do),

      No matter how much you spend you cannot overcome the first two limitations, and third is still somewhere in the misty future. To some extent, more ground infrastructure (though we can always use more) is just 'more of the same'. Hubble is unique. (And don't bring up the JWST - it 'sees' in different wavelengths than Hubble.) No amount of money can change the laws of physics.
       
      Having said that last - I just *know* somebody will pipe up with 'but how do we know there is not some undiscovered principle'. How? This is 2006 - not 1806 or even 1906. These things have been intensively studied - and no principle exists to make the atmosphere transparent to UV. None. Not now, not ever. The same goes for extremely faint objects - barring intervention from Harry Potter the atmosphere isn't going to become less turbulent and more transparent.
    6. Re:cue the shuttle enthusiasts by headkase · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...and no principle exists to make the atmosphere transparent to UV...

      We could start using CFC's again... ;)

      --
      Shh.
  8. Back on topic by djuuss · · Score: 2, Informative
    On a slightly more serious note:

    Like the article says, its not that big a deal until we know if this malfunction is fixable. From TFA:
    Vision loss Burch is optimistic that the ACS and even the High Resolution Channel itself will still be usable, although he stresses that the outlook could change as engineers obtain new information about the problem. Still, the problem could mean that the HRC will be able to use only half of its normal field of view in future observations, Burch says. "We would have to take more observations to cover a given area [of the sky], but that's far from the end of the world for us," he told New Scientist. Malcolm Niedner, deputy project scientist for Hubble at Goddard, agrees with that assessment. "None of us is talking about the loss of HRC," he told New Scientist. Losing half of the channel's field of view is being talked about as "a worst-case scenario," he says.


    In other words, stay tuned for next exciting installment of 'Hubble, the incredible cyclops.'
    --

    my capcha was condom
  9. Re:This time, its the Americans... by chebucto · · Score: 2, Informative

    Two space shuttles have been lost; one of them exploded (or at least that's how it looked on tv), and the other burned up in the atmosphere. RIP to the astronauts. As far as I remember, the great evil in the world at the time when the ISS was being built wasn't the chinese, it was rogue states and criminal gangs. That, at least, was the justification for a bunch of make-work programs for former soviet rocket and nuclear scientists. Regarding building the thing, you american's didn't just rely on russian heavy-lift, you also relied on a good deal of russian space-station technology that was developed and refined for the Mir. Things like CO2 converters and such. Remmeber, the russians had spent a hell of a lot more time in space stations than the americans did when the ISS was being built. And, an orbit friendlier to the american launch locations woudn't have made any difference when the shuttle was grounded for however many months it was during these past few years.

    --
    The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
  10. How much could we learn? by sdo1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hubble is and has been an amazing scientific instrument. While I do love the idea of sending people into space, I feel more and more that the money is far better spent on unmanned missions, including satellites like Hubble. Instead of figuring out how to send humans to Mars (and back to the moon), pour 25% of that budget into Hubble II and Hubble III (or whatever you'd want to call them) and the rest into unmanned probes/missions to Mars. It just feels to me like money well spent. Build two or three identical satellites. Yea, that's expensive, but if one goes south, you figure out why, fix it in the one sitting on the ground (if it's something that can be fixed/improved) and fire it up into orbit.

    The Mars rovers and Hubble have been absolute bargains as far as new knowledge gained. That seems like the right model to follow.

    -S

    --
    --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
    1. Re:How much could we learn? by undeaf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Trips to the moon and extraatmospheric telescopes are not neccessarily at odds to each other, if we could put a telescope on the moon, that would also be not be inside an atmosphere, and it wouldn't need gyroscopes to stabilise itself.

  11. Re:This time, its the Americans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem isn't leading edge technology. It's 80's technology wearing out long after it's design life. Hubble is old, it is long past the time that we should have launched a new one.

  12. Re:This time, its the Americans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And if you live in America, you can thank Europe for providing bases, backing your armies up and generally helping out a hell of a lot in WW2. You can also thank Europe for funding the expeditions that got to America in the first place, giving birth to your ancestors, providing the armies that got rid of the native Americans, and giving you a good third, if not half, of scientific advancement over the millennia. And know why the Russians don't have enough money to get to space on their own? Because you ruined their economy by dragging them into a decade-long arms race!

    Yes, America gets a lot of flak that it doesn't deserve. But you guys have GOT to stop dragging out the old "if it wasn't for America you'd all be speaking German!" bullshit. Every single goddamn country has contributed to avoiding disasters or to important scientific input, you aren't the only ones. You're just the richest and most complacent at the moment, and even at your best you aren't a patch on the Romans.

  13. Re:If they decide to fix it by Orange+Crush · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The best bet would be to schedule in a repair stop during one of the space shuttle's remaining 13(?) scheduled space flights to deliver parts to the ISS.

    I don't think that would be feasible. The shuttle can't just zip around to multiple different orbital rendezvous over the course of a single mission. I haven't been able to find any info, but I'm doubting very much that Hubble and the ISS are even remotely "on the way" to each other. Not to mention that the shuttle will be using much of its payload capacity to build the station and burning some of its limited orbital-manuevering fuel to correct the ISS's orbit. There's probably not enough room or enough in the tanks. (Hubble needs orbit correction too, as well as new gyroscopes in addition to this recent camera failure--no telling what that'll entail.) Even if they're close in orbital rendezvous terms, the shuttle would still probably have to fly a dedicated mission to fix hubble. Not gonna happen.

  14. Stupid nationalism by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seriously, people... Who cares what country they come from? Space exploration is ultimately the achievement of the people who are involved with it, not most Slashdotters, politicians, or others who just happen to be from the same arbitrary zone of political union.

    If the only things you can be proud of are things that you in no way actually caused, then you need to re-evaluate your self-worth.

    Now, BAG MY GROCERIES!

  15. Is that on the antenna mounting? by Lactoso · · Score: 2, Funny
    "Things aren't built to last forever. Anyone know what the envisioned life of the ACS is? (no pun intended)"

    I'm not sure, but my Fault Prediction Center reports that the AE-35 unit may fail within seventy-two hours.

  16. Hubble Origins Probe by bhima · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Hubble Origins Probe is the cheapest, easiest, and fastest way to replace the Hubble. And it doesn't even require the shuttle.

    http://www.pha.jhu.edu/hop/

    It's not that hard people. Call your senators and ask them why in the hell this isn't already in orbit.

    --
    Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
  17. Re:If they decide to fix it by decsnake · · Score: 2, Informative