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Paypal Agrees to Consumer Protections
davidwr writes "Paypal settled a suit with Maryland and 27 states. Among other things, they'll conspicuously advertise a contact phone number and staff it 14 hours a day and be much more forthcoming about when they will debit your bank account. For those of you who think Paypal Sucks, well, starting soon it sucks just a little less."
The US is clamping down on thier branch of paypal, those who provide bank like services should be treated like banks.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Do people really think that when a corporation gets ordered by a court to behave in a different way, that the organisation will really change? At best, the screwing over and offensive behaviour will become more subtle, or "accepted" (by their customers) screwings from other finance houses will be done by PP but "enhanced". Shit like them taking x days to transfer money about, for example.
But they still suck, I am still not prepared to do business with them. If I need to use the 'bay, then I buy from sellers who take direct bank transfers. Friends can PP for me, but I'd rather not encourage the use of PP in anyway.
Car analogies break down.
Nope, they'll still suck if they continue to:
:(
- locking out accounts for 'attempted signing in from another country' - yeah, without even getting a correct password
- only use a password to secure accounts
- only provide a national rate number in the UK, although you can get them on 0800 358 7929 for free
- expect you to send absolutely everything by fax yet they won't talk to you except by email
- not allow you to speak to anyone in the dispute or resolution centre, leaving you arguing with sales staff who don't have a clue
- make it impossible to close your account if it is locked, even after providing all the information you can and no money left in there
I'm disgusting with Paypal and going through the process of deleting my account. It's not easy, but I'll keep trying. Paypal will always suck in the UK it seems...
Dug
In fact it sucks less by precisely the minimum decrement of suckage allowed under law, and only then when compelled by the court. Way to go, paypal.
This doesn't make them any more honest, it just stops one of their unfair practices. I'm sure they can think of others.
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
I'm more interested in when they will be sued for blocking accounts based on "terrorist" last names.
Human rights, anyone?
parasight.de
Does it mean that PayPal will stop blocking accounts (and the money in them) for peregrine reasons like, in my case, your name sounding similar to Al Qaeda's terrorists? And I'm not even in the same continent nor religion as them!
--
Superb hosting 20GB Storage, 1_TB_ bandwidth, php, mysql, ssh, $7.95
I sold some information (nothing exotic). It was only $125 and i delivered my end. -a clean deal. A few months go by and i log into my account and see -125 So i say, "WTF why do i have a chargeback & why was i not contacted seeing how you have all my personal info" (acurate info)
/end rant
They say i did not suppy tracking information when asked. I had 3 days to send this info before my account was jacked by some little twerp. (zabasearch gave me his home address) I did not check this email because it is only used for paypal, & with no business going on.. why check it?
So not only did i loose the data i sold,.. but i ended up paying somebody to take it for me.
So if you sell something as a "service" how are you to provide a tracking number? Any graphic or website payment can be charged back
-another loophole & it seems that paypal does not give a shat about the person who has been using the service from the beginning.
now i have to deal with the twerp & waste more time.
Kill your TV
Reduce, reuse, cycle
well, starting soon it sucks just a little less.
It'd suck even less if they'd allow donations for SCUMMVM again...
Summation 2
Almost...
In Soviet Russia, YOU take money from PayPal!
-- i am jack's amusing sig file
It is run and sponsored by the competition. The webmaster tries to deny that saying he's just advertising alternatives, but the alternatives advertised on paypalsucks.com are FAR WORSE and just fronts for laundering and identity theft.
StormPay
iKobo
YowCow
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Up until 2 weeks ago, I would have said the same thing. I've used Paypal for about 4 years, bought/sold hundreds of items on eBay, paying exclusively through Paypal. I even had the debit card, which I used to take advantage of their cash-back for Visa purchases.
In July, I sold an item on eBay, got paid for it, life went on. Second week of September, I get an email from Paypal saying that they had reason to believe this item was paid for with fraudulent funds, and asked me to provide tracking info, etc., for the item sold. I did, gave them everything they asked for.
Two weeks later, I get another email from them, stating:
"We have conducted a review of a payment that you received. In this case, returning the funds to the sender was determined to be the appropriate action, and we have completed a reversal of the payment. Good selling practices, like trackable shipping, prompt shipment, and communication between buyer and seller help prevent disputes."
Huh? I provided them with a tracking number, delivery was confirmed, item was shipped the same day payment was received. I contacted the buyer (this person has purchased multiple items from me, I have no reason to not trust them), asked them if they knew anything more than I did. They have not received any refund from Paypal, and in fact didn't even know there was a problem.
So, who was my money "returned" to? Repeated emails to Paypal have been ignored, so I've closed my account, I'll never use Paypal again.
Direct debit - here in Britain - is subject to vigorous protection. It requires you to give permission to your bank, and if you contest any of the charges then your branch is obliged to immediately refund them. To use it to steal money you would have to find someone absolutely acalculic.
I'm not disagreeing that PayPal is far different from a bank as it doesn't allow Loans, Savings Accounts, etc. The thing is, that it still does provide the basics. It charges interest. It withholds money. It can hold money just like a chequing account. They can also transfer to and from PayPal accounts.
The problem I'm saying is that it's very much a "wild west" situation with PayPal right now. Although one can risk them not taking advantage of you and your money one can't guarantee that it's not going to happen. Just like banks, Paypal is bound to be operating on a "profit before people" mode of business. Banks, luckily, are monitored by government agencies to make sure everything is on the "up and up". PayPal, however, is not.
OK, so it follows that the fewer places my bank details are, the less likely a direct debit could be set up to hoover my account. So by not using Paypal, by not even having an account (anymore), I cannot be phished, nor can PP be cracked (tech or social) and my details getting out.
Though my bank details may be visible to other ebay users I buy from, and by extension their accounts could be hacked and my details obtained by a crook, but this is pretty unlikely. But by the sounds of it the DD scheme is very protected and thats the only real "attack vector" if you have my sort code, name and a/c number.
But I found a file on my laptop earlier that I used as a notebook whilst I was constructing my rant to put in the box when closing the Paypal account I had (in error...). I feel I need to share this with the world, and you can give Paypal this amount of abuse and they don't do anything! :) This chunk is over 2000 chars, but the 1000 character limit was enforced with javascript IIRC (can I get a shout out to NoScript?).
Yeah, it turned into a foaming rant :)
Car analogies break down.
Like many of you we all had issues with Paypal. My story is a bit different in the fact that I was part of every bit of this lawsuit. When i was in college I sold things through ebay and I made a good bit of money doing it. One time I had a particularly large order ($3500) and like each of my orders I require that the mailto address AND phone number matched the paypal information. I would call the number, speak with that person and then begin the order. I would also get confirmation on shipping, tracking and insurance. So not only did they have to sign for it but I knew when and who! What more could paypal need right? I billed them for $3500 and shortly after recieved it via paypal. As usually I immediately move the money to my bank account. Two days later I get an email from paypal stating that this was a disputed order and that the money would be held until it was resolved. I immediately call my bank and put a block on my account for any agency called Paypal or with Paypal in the name to withdraw any money. I even specified the amount it would try to withdraw I email back paypal every possible bit of information they could need, address, phone number, tracking number, when it was signed for, the number to contact UPS about who signed for it etc. They responded "the credit card was illegally charged. You have 7 days to remit the funds". "So let me get this straight" I responded. Not only did the credit card address match the paypal address, that matched the billing address, that matched the mailto address, but the phone number is registered to the card holder AND the package was sighed for by the card holder? Insert canned reply and "remit payment or else". So I consulted a student legal at NCSU (love those guys), and they explained that since Paypal was not technically a bank I was not "technically liable for their fuckups". So I didn't pay. My account was locked of course and it had .14 cents in it!
Paypal continued to email me about owed money until I sent them a formal letter explaining in no uncertain terms that it would be a "cold day in hell before they got a penny from me". The emails stopped.
However, I'm a very careful person when it comes to money and my credit history. You guessed it, Paypal tried to put an unpaid debt of $4000 on my credit history. I contested it and included all of my information. It took 3 months but it was removed and paypal was fined (undisclosed amount).
Then I saw this class action lawsuit happening. I really wanted to make sure I had covered all my bases legally and so I joined. I was contacted directly by the lawyers involved and I was added to the "long form" group. There were 2, a quick settlement group and a "take your chances at getting any money back" group.
I heard we won and recieved a package in the mail that included a legal statement I do not owe them a single penny and a check for $395.
Paypal is STILL just as bad. It's NOT a bank, it is not subject to the laws of a bank, they can hold your money for ANY reason they want to and screw you out of it. It took me 3 YEARS to get this settlement. THREE YEARS. And you know what happened to paypal?
Record profits...
Good job legal system.