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US–EU Flight Talks Collapse

fantomas writes, "The BBC is reporting that the current US-EU talks over data collected from people flying to the USA collapsed last night. US Customs and Border Protection is insisting on access to the airlines' records and 34 pieces of data to be collected from each passenger. This data has been gathered since 2004, but only as a temporary measure. The European Court of Justice threw out the temporary agreement and set a deadline of Sept. 30 to arrive at a new one. Airlines that refuse to hand over information to US authorities may be fined up to $6,000 per passenger, and the passengers themselves held up in immigration for hours. Good for the EU on protecting the privacy of their citizens? Or are they hindering the War on Terror?" An EU official said that the EU wanted to give away less data, while the US wanted more.

7 of 457 comments (clear)

  1. Except for the UK by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is all fine, unless you're in the UK, in which case the government has conveniently made an arrangement for airlines to give the US all the information they want legally, circumventing the EU law on a technicality. It's good to know that Tony is independent of George's dog-handler these days, isn't it?

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  2. Realllllly by Mad+Martigan · · Score: 4, Informative
    An EU official said that the EU wanted to give away less data, while the US wanted more.

    That doesn't sound right at all!

    More seriously, here's some of the data they're talking about (from the article)

    Passenger profile

    The Passenger Name Record (PNR) data that has been transferred up to now, falls into 34 overlapping fields, some of which contain very little information, for example the passenger's name, while others contain a lot, including the passenger's name (again), date of birth, sex, citizenship and so on.

    Some of this information is collected when the ticket is booked, some of it at check-in, and some is information about the passenger's travelling history, which can be gleaned from the reservation database. Not all the fields will necessarily be filled in.

    The data can be broken down into the following categories

            * Information about the passenger: name; address; date of birth; passport number; citizenship; sex; country of residence; US visa number (plus date and place issued); address while in the US; telephone numbers; e-mail address; frequent flyer miles flown; address on frequent flyer account; the passenger's history of not showing up for flights

            * Information about the booking of the ticket: date of reservation; date of intended travel; date ticket was issued; travel agency; travel agent; billing address; how the ticket was paid for (including credit card number); the ticket number; which organisation issued the ticket; whether the passenger bought the ticket at the airport just before the flight; whether the passenger has a definite booking or is on a waiting list; pricing information; a locator number on the computer reservation system; history of changes to the booking

            * Information about the flight itself: seat number; seat information (eg aisle or window); bag tag numbers; one-way or return flight; special requests, such as requests for special meals, for a wheelchair, or help for an unaccompanied minor

            * Information about the passenger's itinerary: other flights ticketed separately, or data on accommodation, car rental, rail reservations or tours.

            * Information about other people: the group the passenger is travelling with; the person who booked the ticket

    The CBP system has been built in such a way that some "sensitive" information is filtered out.

    Protected data

    According to the undertakings on data protection provided by the US, this includes "personal data revealing racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs, trade union membership, and data concerning the health or sex life of the individual".

    This means that Halal or Kosher meal preferences will not show up, while requests for a vegetarian meal will.


    I also found this passage interesting:

    Airlines have been threatened with fines of $6,000 per passenger or withdrawal of landing rights if they fly to the US without supplying the data, which American officials use to try to identify potential terrorists.

    But the airlines could face prosecution under national data protection laws in EU member states if they do hand over the information.


    I'm not exactly a friend of the airlines, but it seems like they're screwed either way.
  3. Re:The war on terror is a farce by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Informative

    "No, the terrorists have won when our troops stop killing their countrymen"

    I know it's not your position - but it is the position of many in the Mediaverse.
    What you are describing is "collective punishment" - a war crime.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  4. Re:The war on terror is a farce by Jack+Pallance · · Score: 3, Informative
    There is no way to "solve" the terrorist problem on the home front either.

    What if, from the "Home Front", the United States just stopped attacking non-terrorst countries. By not creating a terrorist factory, like the new Iraq, the supply would be choked off before it could take root.

  5. Re:It's spelt "muslim", not "moslem". by Alphager · · Score: 3, Informative

    it is moslem in most european countries.

  6. Re:It's spelt "muslim", not "moslem". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Since several of the languages commonly used by Muslims, like Arabic, typically indicate consonants rather than vowels, and since there are several dialects and accents used by speakers of some of the most commonly spoken languages in the Muslim world, when transcribing directly to English, choices between English o and u, a and e, and other similar pairs are rarely set in stone. Similarly, many of the consonants are transcribed in different ways: kh, k, and qa and qu are all commonly used for both the Arabic letters qaf and kaf. That's why (in English) one sees a variety of spellings of proper names of people and items particular to Islam, such as the Koran (or Qur'an).

    So, one may find a Muslim writing (in English) "Muslim", "Moslem", "Musulman" (from the Turkish, Farsi, Urdu, and Hindi), "Musliman" (from the Bosnian) , and so forth.

    "grammar nazi"

    This is a point of orthography, not grammar.

  7. Re:In Soviet Russia... too true... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have lived in Soviet Union and can't say it's true.
    I have NEVER carried my paper unless I was going to travel by air or conducted business with bank or goverment agency. You didn't need your paper otherwise. Militia (police) didn't stop you at random. You didn't need paper to travel by train, tickets didn't have a names on it. All this shit about carry your identification started at beginning of 90th, when SU sease to exist.
      So right now in USA we have more restricted movement then in Soviet Union, except "locked" ("closed") cities, that ytou have to have special pass to go in, unless you lived there. (you didn't need a permission to leave city though). Otherwise... I missed easiness of travel inside Soviet Union.