McAfee, Symantec Think Vista Unfair

davidwr writes "Is Microsoft unfairly locking anti-virus companies out of Vista? Symantec and McAfee seem to think so and they aren't being very quiet about it, placing a full-page ad in the Financial Times. If you've found the ad online, please post a link."

Comments

McAfee, Symantec living on borrowed time

[ackthpt]

Something McAfee, Symantec and all other anti-virus/anti-spyware/firewall/spam-filter companies should bear in mind, if operating systems, applications and other software had been properly designed in the beginning these companies wouldn't exist. These aftermarket companies are effectively parasites. Once the host changes significantly the parasites advantage is gone. Who can say Microsoft is now to blame for not keeping them on the gravy train? It's would be true, however, to say that these aftermarket companies are in effect and after the effect Q/A arm of Microsoft, which has doubtless helped fuel Microsoft's growth. If you're a corporate IT officer, would you be comforted to know you only have one place to go for help now, and it's the company which releases extreme high priority bug fixes frequently?

Microsoft was overly optimistic about the true nature of people (they shouldn't as they've proven to be devils themselves), expecting nobody would take advantage of flaws, like giving everyone effectively root on their computers, thus every application, including malicious code. Further, they've been wonderful about hiding the true nature of what's running on your PC. I can see executables, but DLL's, why the hell shouldn't I see those easily? Anything running on my computer should be visible, how else can I tell if there's something there which shouldn't be?

So, once again Microsoft attempts to get it right. Maybe they'll be closer to the mark this time. I don't care. XP was the last operating system I'm ever buying from them and I don't pirate stuff. With Vista promising to be larger than ever, I don't think it's the direction I want to go. As Michael Crichton implied in Jurassic Park, the more complex a system the more likely it is to break down. I don't find the every growing Windows OS/Environment comforting. I'm also tired of the technology tax, I just want something to work, to be able to do mundane things and play a few simple games when time affords. Good luck McAfee, Symantec and all the rest, it was overdue. Don't forget to send your stockholders a "Thank You" for all the money they gave you.

Of course, if it all goes tits-up for Vista, Microsoft have nobody else to blame. Doesn't that at least warrant a warm, cozy feeling?

Re:McAfee, Symantec living on borrowed time

[Anonymous Coward]

Something McAfee, Symantec and all other anti-virus/anti-spyware/firewall/spam-filter companies should bear in mind, if operating systems, applications and other software had been properly designed in the beginning these companies wouldn't exist. These aftermarket companies are effectively parasites. Once the host changes significantly the parasites advantage is gone.

This would be true IF Microsoft had removed the need for av/as/s/sf software but it hasnt. All it has done is changed how the software innterfaces with the OS in an attempt to make it more secure.

Who can say Microsoft is now to blame for not keeping them on the gravy train?

I can. They *arent* stopping the need for this software, just making it harder for the competition.

It's would be true, however, to say that these aftermarket companies are in effect and after the effect Q/A arm of Microsoft, which has doubtless helped fuel Microsoft's growth. If you're a corporate IT officer, would you be comforted to know you only have one place to go for help now, and it's the company which releases extreme high priority bug fixes frequently?

Fuelled MS's growth in the same way a speed bump helps ford's growth.

This might be true *IF* microsoft was releasing fixes when they're needed but as we've seen lately, they still dont.

Much ado...

[DoraLives]

about nothing.

Once Vista hits the streets in its final incarnation, and the Bad Guys get to working on it, my money is on the premise that third party antivirus solutions to whatever problems that inevitably must arise, will continue to be a necessity.

After all, it's not like we don't already have a pretty good track record to examine, with the folks who are producing Vista, eh?

Re:Much ado...

[CastrTroy]

McAfee and Symantec aren't complaining that MS made their OS really secure, and as such, have nothing left to protect against. What they are complaining about is that MS has made it impossible for any program to run at a low enough level (except MS programs of course) to be able to work effectively as an antivirus/antimalware application. They've made is so that it's impossible for anybody but MS to make a proper virus scanner. Well, they could make a tool that would get down to that level, but it would have to be through some security hole in the code, and MS would most likely patch it to prevent hackers from using it. So i think that Vista will be more insecure than ever, because MS will be the only ones able to provide security tools.

Re:Much ado...

[molarmass192]

I'm not disagreeing with you, you're bang on, but you raise an interesting point in "MS has made it impossible for any program to run at a low enough level (except MS programs of course)" that I want to expand on. MS doesn't sell open source software. They've never once said "do whatever you want with our OS". They don't provide source code to build your own kernel. So why the big stink by these companies? This is the nature of closed source software platforms. You're at the mercy of their creators. This turn of events for the anti-V companies is EXACTLY the reason why I no longer use or recommend closed source software to my board. Microsoft has ALWAYS owned the key to Symantec's and McAfee's business models. They've just decided to close that door now and these guys will now have to pay the price for the choice of platform they made. This same fate could happen to ANY windows-only software maker. It's the nature of dealing with a platform over which you have zero control.

In other news...

[jfclavette]

Smalltown, US - NAPA says increased quality in GM exhausts unfair. A representative is quoted saying: "GM is in the business of building cars. There's no reason for them to build quality parts for their cars. It's absolutely unfair that the default exhaust lasts more than 3 weeks without needing a replacement. They're trying to drive us out of business."

why arent they also upset at Mac?

[ClassicComposer]

Why arent they attacking OSX as well? I mean it has a built in firewall that is actually semi decent and not many other widely exploited vulnerabilities... Wouldnt that mean that OSX has been for a long time shutting out companies like this?

Re:Mcaffe + Norton Licks balls.

[Grand V'izer]

Well Avast! is going to get screwed just like Norton and MacAffee. All those free AV products are going to become a lot less useful when they can't detect unauthorized actions on the kernel.

I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Microsoft hasn't "secured" the kernel from attackers. They've simply removed any way for legitimate non-microsoft software to monitor the kernel. People have already found ways to attack the Vista kernel, and given Microsoft's history with security I don't feel very good about them being my only defense.

If you want to play with the big boys

[codepunk]

If you want to play with the big boys you got to play like one. They could fix this situation in
less than a week and have microsoft bending over backwards to help them out.

CEO Symantec: Billy you are pissing me off let me have access to what I want.

Billy: No way we are taking over the playground.

CEO Symantec: Well you are going to let me have access to what I want or else.

Billy: Or else what, I am not scared of you I own the desktop.

CEO Symantec: Ok here is what I am gonna do.

Billy: laughs

CEO Symantec: We are immediately updating all of our desktop software.

Billy: yea so

CEO Symantec: Any time a virus is found on the system it will pop up a message to the user. If it
is browser installed malware it will contain the following message "A virus related to your IE installation was quarenteened and removed. To eliminate future possible system infections you can
go to www.getfirefox.com and download a secure browser which will greatly enhance your web surfing experience".

Billy: I don't much care about IE anyhow we don't even make money on it.

CEO Symantec: Any time a macro virus is found on the system it will pop up a message to the user. "A macro virus has been found on your system and it is possible that your personal data could have been stolen. A better office suite that is even compatible with your current documents and is totally fee of charge is available at www.openoffice.org. If you would like this installed press ok and the macro virus will be removed and we will upgrade your system to a better office suite"

Billy: oh crap, please don't do that.

CEO Symantec: Also when it catches a system virus it is gonna point the user to ubuntu and offer to install it.

Billy: Tell you what we will send over a team of developers and help you fully integrate with our system.

Problem solved!

picture of the mcafee ad

[graucho]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77014820@N00/25883676 2/