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EU and US Reach Deal On Airline Data
gambit3 writes "According to the BBC, the EU and the US have struck a new deal for sharing airline passenger data. It will replace a deal struck down by the European Court of Justice in May, which allowed the US its own access to passenger data. Under the deal, the EU will 'push' the data — 34 pieces of information per passenger — to the US, replacing the current 'pull' system. The new deal will expire at the end of July 2007."
What are the 34 data items?
Old system: US pulls 34 items of data about each passenger.
New system: EU pushes 34 items of data about each passenger.
Unless the data itself has dramatically changed, I really can't see any functional difference. So how is this any better?
Once the data leaves the hands of the EU, it is beyond the control of the EU. DHS can (and will, I'm sure) give it to anyone they want to. I have little reason to believe that won't include corporations that are willing to pay off the right people.
So, really, how is this any better than what the U.S. was demanding to begin with, other than the fact that the EU gets to decide ahead of time whose data gets sent to the U.S.? For ordinary people, it seems to me that this is no different. Only people with "special" standing within the EU (i.e., those who have special connections to the people who decide what data goes out) will be protected.
The actions of all governments with respect to the rights, liberties, and protections of the people have become so predictable that it's depressing. :-(
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We should just tell the US to go fuck themselves over the data and not travel there. If anything US airline security has been shown to be so poor we should be the one imposing the ridiculous restrictions on them coming here.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Who says they're using the internet? There are many other technologies (Tux, MQ, X.25, MATIP, P1024, etc.) to choose from when exchanging data between remote hosts, and one can use IP technology and still not use the public internet. Some companies have their own internal IP networks, and dedicated point-to-point data lines are still very common in some industries.
Commercial airlines and governments use "push" technology heavily, as they have been since the mid-1960's (and maybe even before). That's what an unsolicited data feed is by definition. Airline weather is sent that way, all airline ACARS messages are sent that way, FLIFO data is sent that way internally between internal airline systems and between airlines, passenger data is sent that way between reservations systems and the recipients of said data, bag information is sent that way, etc.
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
US: Hey EU, we need to talk about your Pieces of Information
EU: Oh, is there a problem, I thought I was giving you the right number, 34 is the minimum right?
US: Oh, yes, 34 is the minimum number of pieces of information, if you just want to do the minimum
US: Look at Bulgaria over there, they give 54 pieces of information, don't you want to be like Bulgaria?
EU: Look, if you want 54 pieces of information, just make the minimum 54
US: I just want you to want to do more than the minimum
Sorry, I forget the actual script, that's off the top of my head.
If the EU gets the same access to US databases im a ok with this. Somehow i suspect the US would never bend over and take it like that. Only the EU is so cowardly bent over for their new puppet lors.
HTTP/1.1 400
Just some background info.
Europe and US has a huge difference in privacy rights. In Europe the individual owns his own data. In the US the entity (read corporation) owns whatever they can collect (And sell).
In Norway, for example, if you are unhappy with your credit rating, you just call them and tell them that they have to erase all data they have on you. (This will of course not result in a good score of course). Companies can not keep any information other than what is needed to complete a customer transaction. They can not sell it. The information belongs to you. A patchwork of laws are added to create "holes" in this "firewall" of privacy. Like credit reporting agencies
In the US, Corporations owns whatever they can get, and can sell it as they like. There is no "Privacy firewall" A patchwork of laws is applied in an attempt to plug the glaring errors in this system.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
It's rather pointless anyway. Don't you have to say if you're a terrorist (and an ex-nazi, and if you came to attack the US government) on those little forms you get before landing in the US ? Seems much simpler to get it straight from the horse's mouth than trying to extrapolate from seating preferences. :)
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Funny, but I don't see terrorists these days showing up to the airport to buy a one way ticket in cash, ordering a Halal meal, and pre booking a tour of The White House and The Capitol.
IMHO they are demanding this data because they need to be seen to be doing something, and because the current US government has had a good deal of success with bullying tactics. So tell me: if I paid for my ticket with a credit card issued to an online gambling company, will I be arrested? Will I come under suspicion if one of the other members of the group I am travelling with is on the infamous "No Fly" list? Will the fact that I have dual citizenship and two passports, and that I use either passport depending on destination, raise flags? Let's say my visa was issued on one passport, but somehow the record shows the other one?
This is just an excuse for a massive fishing expedition, and I fully expect the information they get to be misused. The current US government has demonstrated repeatedly that it cannot be trusted, and will do whatever it wants to regardless of international agreements, common sense, or fair play.
It is too bad that the EU knuckled under on this. America can apply American law all it wants in America, but it has to get over this thinking that its laws supercede those of other sovereign nations.
Well, hi there, Aaron.
Don't you think that with this as public knowledge, people with bad intentions will make sure they order their ticket including return flight from a reputable travel agency (who couldn't care less who they sell their ticket to), using a pristine 'John Smith' passport showing no irregularities whatsoever? It's pretty easy to hijack the identity of any John Smith so the passport and records would be just peachy. No problem traveling with well-known airlines either, and I'm sure they won't tick the 'kosjer' box in the food selection box either. They may be scary backward folks, but they are *not* stupid.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB