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The Relevance of Windows

Josh Fink writes "ZDNet has up an article exploring whether of not Windows is still relevant. In the age of 'Web 2.0' both older folks who remember the days before Windows and younger folks who have never known anything else are beginning to see Microsoft's offering as old news. From the article: 'Before closing the books on the Age of Windows, however, let's not get too caught up in the fashion of the moment. The water-cooler crowd may take a dim view of "Win-doze" for all the right reasons. Still, Microsoft's archrivals continue to view it as a product with a potentially make-or-break impact on their businesses. In fact, two of them--Adobe Systems and Symantec--are lobbying European regulators to get tough on Microsoft. The European Union already has an unresolved antitrust dispute with Microsoft, and Adobe and Symantec would be silly not to play that card for all it's worth. So this is what they're doing.'"

18 of 301 comments (clear)

  1. Is the Operating System Dead? by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I read an interesting article about the operating system being dead and it contained the choice between a machine with your favorite operating system or a machine with your most hated current OS but with access to the internet.

    And, you know what? I must admit that I would take the machine that had the connection to the internet regardless of what current OS it had on it.

    So, not only is Windows no longer relevant, but the functionality of the operating system itself may have been trumped by our ability to communicate with other people. This doesn't invalidate operating system arguments but it does cause one to wonder about what is really important when you're getting a machine to work & play on.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Is the Operating System Dead? by 2.7182 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This article is somewhat out there. How can an operating system with such market share be irrrelevant ?

    2. Re:Is the Operating System Dead? by KillerBob · · Score: 4, Insightful
      And, you know what? I must admit that I would take the machine that had the connection to the internet regardless of what current OS it had on it.


      And herein lies... I'll take the OS I hate if it means that I can play my video games. And I'm not the only person who thinks that way. Until hardware manufacturers start taking Linux seriously and come up with decent video drivers (the sound and networking drivers for all of my systems work fine), then Linux won't be a player in the games market. Likewise... even if there's decent video drivers for Linux, there's still the problem where game producers don't take either Linux or MacOS seriously. Software like Cedega will probably do wonders for that situation in the long run, but you still have the problem of decent video drivers.

      Overcome those hurdles, and Windows will no longer be relevant. Until that time, though, it's very much relevant, and no amount of OSS evangelism is going to fix that.

      You are right about one thing, though... the connection to the Internet is a deal-breaker. It's just that every OS is the current generation has the ability to connect to the Internet, and a wide variety of options for software that uses it. Heck... most of us can probably get the Internet on our phone. It may be a deal-breaker, but it's an irrelevant one.
      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    3. Re:Is the Operating System Dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, if I wanted to surf the internet or chat online, I'd go for the OS with internet access. However pretty much every OS has that now.

      Now say I want to do some programming and the choice is an OS with compiler tools out of the box (Linux, BSD, MacOS X) or not (Windows). I guess I'm going to use one of the former. Maybe the prettiest one, or the one where I can install required libraries easiest. But oh noes, my client wants a Windows application. I could program against Wine I guess ...

      The /core/ OS is a pretty moot point these days. The libraries that make up the bulk of an Operating System Platform are far more important, KDE, Gnome, Cocoa, .NET, etc, and then the applications available on top. The choice between Linux, BSD or Mac OS X is one I don't really care about, as long as it works. However having access to Microsoft Office or Firefox or Photoshop is what users care about.

      20 - 10 years ago: Hardware Is Paramount. Amiga/Mac/PC platforms specialise in different areas.
      10 - 5 years ago: O.S. Is Paramount. Hardware becomes generic between platforms. Amiga realises they have a decent OS and promptly goes bankrupt.
      5 - future: Applications and Functionality Are Paramount. Users switch to the Mac because it is easier and works with their iPods and there's no evil intarweb softwarez.
      +5 years: Applications are written to cross-platform API on virtual machine / universal binaries. Platform even less important. Java 6 starts trend of 'seamless' desktop applications written in Java that people simply aren't aware are running in Java. Java, .NET and Cocoa are the three APIs in use, each with different UI standards.
      +20 years: DOS makes a comeback. CP/M wins! Microwaves come with switches to program it.

    4. Re:Is the Operating System Dead? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Informative
      windows will continue to be 'relevant' as long as it comes pre-installed on many machines

      The days of that happening may be limited. MS has just announced the pricing of Vista in Australia ITWire. Vista Ultimate will cost us AUD$751, while Office 2007's equivalent looks like retailing at about AUD$1,100.

      That means a fully-loaded home/office machine could attract a Microsoft tax of close to AUD$2,000.

      It's possible to build the hardware component of a midrange machine for AUD$6-700, so the monopoly rent for Win/Office is starting to look pretty scary. Obviously most people will be getting their software OEM, but seeing those sticker prices on the retail packs is going to make your average shopper think twice about what that beige box might cost them without the predatory pricing.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    5. Re:Is the Operating System Dead? by beuges · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's nothing stopping major improvements to the kernel. As I understand it, the problem is that the kernel maintainers seem to have a specific desire to *not* maintain a stable interface against which drivers can be written, the reasoning being that if the drivers are open source, then the changes required by the new interface will be trivial to implement. So, the kernel maintainers make a point of not bothering to maintain a stable interface for driver developers over the long term to discourage binary-only drivers.

      Guess what - those hardware manufacturers who are releasing binary-only drivers aren't going to suddenly decide to release open-source drivers. They have a lot of intellectual property in there that they either cannot afford to be disclosed to their competitors, or cannot disclose due to licensing requirements from 3rd parties.

      If the kernel wasnt such a moving target, it would be easier for hardware vendors to release one set of drivers that will work on a large range of kernel versions. I'd imagine having to maintain multiple releases of the same driver for different point releases of kernel contributes a lot to the perceived apathy of hardware vendors towards linux. Before this gets marked as a troll, think about the number of 'i upgraded my kernel from x.y.z to x.y.z+1 and ABC stopped working' comments that accompany so many kernel release announcements

    6. Re:Is the Operating System Dead? by gartogg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wait a second...

      The ulitimate goal of a technology is to get to a stage that it is so good, it is invisible. Then it's irrelevant, in these terms. It still matters, of course, but there is no differentiation.

      There are plenty of irrelevant things with huge market shares. The point here is that operating systems have been commoditized, and are no longer important - The analogy you could use is that you don't care which brand of gasoline you use, but you care about your car. Of course, as computers evolve, new technologies become old, and then commotized. I cared about the computer architechture, then they all got to be good enough that I cared about by hardware (video card, ram, etc.) Then I stopped caring as long as everything worked.

      I used to care about my OS, then they all became sufficient to get to my web browser and do the other tasks I needed done. Then I cared about my browser, but they all became good enough to use the web apps that I wanted, so I'll mostly stop caring about those as well.

      --
      I'm a concientious .sig objector.
  2. The obsolete businesses complain the most. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Symantec!?! These guys have a business that depend entirely on Microsoft continuing to deliver a horribly insecure OS. They're not arguing that Microsoft is unfairly competing with Symantec's "market" - they're really complaining that Microsoft is finally fixing bugs that never should have existed to begin with. They should have known that their "patches until Microsoft fixes it" (which is what AV software really is) product wouldn't be a big-money business after Microsoft (eventually) fixed things. And Adobe - it seems like formating a text document hasn't been innovative since TeX - and if Microsoft makes that easier, I say more power to them.

    Don't get me wrong - I don't love Microsoft - but I'd hate to see Adobe make pretty-printing proprietary in Linux or Windows - and I'd hate to see Symantec claim that patches are proprietary for Linux or Windows.

  3. Operating system far from dead by everphilski · · Score: 3, Insightful

    to the following groups:
    - gamers, who have specific games which exist on specific platforms

    - programmers, who have code, and tools, and toolkits, some of which may be platform specific

    - Anyone who has been "around awhile" and has invested dollars in software. For example, software I still use on a regular basis under Windows predates 2000 and I don't see a Linux offering worth giving it up for.

    1. Re:Operating system far from dead by Rachel+Lucid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I second this. As someone who has tried all three 'flavors' (Windows for general use, Mac for art, Linux for development), I can safely say there is still a 'need' each OS provides, that general Internet usage and cross-platform capabilities don't account for. I whole-heartedly think each OS has a strength that 'tunes' itself for a specific task, and so using Linux or Mac for work (while leaving Windows for more time-wastable tasks) is a fair shake.

      I see Windows as an unabashedly 'generic' OS, and hence it doesn't lend the same spark to it that Mac or Linux do. I think people are perhaps taking the WIMP interface for granted, sure, but Windows begs to be fucked-up in ways that the other two don't.

      Windows is fine if it came with the PC. Otherwise, I'd probably use Linux or Mac.

  4. Deja Vu? by Deathlizard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe I'm getting my history wrong, but weren't analysts saying the same thing during the age of "Web 1.0"?

  5. Adobe and Symantec Perfect Examples by Carcass666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Adobe and Symantec are perfect examples of why Windows isrelevant. Software companies are not properly supporting other operating systems. Although Adobe still builds graphics apps for the Mac, they support for Linux is, at best, tepid; they rarely even bother supporting Mac on non-graphics applications, such as Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro, which they acquired years ago). Symantec's support for non-Windows operating sytems is anything but legendary (ex. management console for corporate AV is all Windows).

  6. A another key point... by w0lver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First, this idea of a web-only network computer type world is great for the readers of Slashdot and ZDNet where complaints of my 6Mb pipe getting enough throughput. People tend to forget that broadband is not universal in this country even for businesses. 70% percent of all US businesses are less than 10 people which equates to 1 Trillion dollars in revenues, this is the foundation of our environement. Only about half of these small business have broadband access, so you expect them to dial up to use a AJAX version of QuickBooks? Go out side the US and it gets worse, there are major manufacturing firms in Asia and India who power is still an issue let alone bandwidth. ASP, SaaS, and Web 2.0 is not an option for a large segment of businesses worldwide and will not be for years to come. Local OSes will be needed for the decade to come for most businesses. Businesses drive the majority of software revenue.

  7. Re:Office by quakeroatz · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yay! you've supported your point by the 1 in 5000 users here that don't know Office has been avaiable for Macs for years. Does this make MACs more relevant? Or just support the Microsoft platform, and feed the monster.

    Mac User 1: "Coke sucks! Screw them!"
    Mac User 2: "Yeah I only buy iCoke! That will show them!"
    Bill Gates: [Grins]

  8. Why? Heres Why by ukdkbr123 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why windows will still be relevant, I just ordered my mom a dell system with a monitor for $500. It comes with windows, I unpack the computer hook it up, install office, subscribe to anti-virus subscription, and make sure windows updates are set to automatically download and install. After this I bet I will never have to touch this computer for her again until she is ready to buy a new one. She will be able to telecommute to work, she will be able to surf the internet, get email, do her taxes, edit he pictures from her camera and do it quickly, reliably, and with no hassle at all. For most people this is the reality of windows, it isn't this unstable, BSOD throwing, pile of crap everyone makes it out to be. With a little caution towards security on the users part there is nothing it cant do for the average computer user.

  9. This again? by Ravenscall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I remember all of this going around during DotCom boom 1.0 right before Win ME and 2000 came out.

    Then the dotcom crash happened and people quit asking the question, as Microsoft was one of the few stable pillars of the IT industry for a year or so.

    I predict pretty much the same thing this time around.

    --
    You say you want a revolution....
  10. It's all about Photoshop, Sonar and Eve-Online by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd be happy to change to a non-Microsoft operating system right now. I'd even spend some money to do it, but I've got a handful of programs that I just can't run on anything but Windows, and that's a stopper for me.

    If I can't load Adobe Premiere, or Sonar or Eve-Online in Linux or OSX, it's no good to me. I'd even be happy to switch from Sonar back to Logic Audio Platinum and I can run Premiere on a Mac, but still there's Eve-Online.

    If I even have to WORRY about whether I can run my favorite apps, I'm not going to change to a different OS, even if there are lots of reasons for me to do so.

    I know from experience that I can work longer, with less fatigue, on a Mac than on Windows or Linux. I prefer the look and feel of OSX. I love the idea of open source operating systems, and I like the way Linux can be made bulletproof without sacrificing all sorts of performance and resources. But still... I can't run my favorite apps.

    So who's got to change, me or the manufacturers? Am I supposed to switch to Linux with the hope that if enough of us do so the software manufacturers will start to port their apps over to Linux? I don't have time for that.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  11. Re:Price by c6gunner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure, there'd be some installs of Linspire and some people running MacOS (and maybe Apple would see this as a good time to make MacOS install on lots of machines), but for hard core gamers and especially for corporate IT departments, it would be next to impossible to switch quickly and they'd end up paying quite a premium.

    Thing is, why would they need to "switch quickly"? With the resource overhead I've seen in the beta version of Vista "hardcore gamers" would have to be retarded to make the switch. It'll only decrease the performance of your games, and all games for the next 3-4 years at least will keep running on XP. Meanwhile it makes no sense for corporate IT departments to switch immediately - any decent admin would wait until at least SP1 before switching. So you've got a good 2-3 year buffer there before anyone would really NEED to switch, which leaves plenty of opportunity for a viable alternative to gain popularity. The only thing MS could do to encourage people to upgrade sooner is stop releasing patches for Windows XP....but that'd set up an excellent opportunity for a class action lawsuit. Therefore, no matter how you look at it, it makes no sense for MS to "raise the price by some interesting factor".