Slashdot Mirror


KDE Celebrates 10 Years of Existence

Rob Kaper wrote in to tell us about KDE's 10th anniversary. From the article: "Yesterday at 10:00 AM the president of the KDE e.V. Eva Brucherseifer welcomed the audience of the presentation track at the KDE anniversary event at the Technische Akademie Esslingen (TAE) in Ostfildern near Stuttgart, Germany. Keynote speakers were Matthias Ettrich, founder of the KDE project, as well as Klaus Knopper of Knoppix fame. During their presentations they looked back at KDE's successful past 10 years and they offered their thoughts about the future of KDE and Free Software." Rob adds this thought: "We've come a long way in ten years, but where must we still improve?"

14 of 270 comments (clear)

  1. KDE Possible Improvements by linguae · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was a KDE user on FreeBSD before I bought a Mac a few months ago. I was generally very happy with my KDE experience, and they seemed to have done a great job with their desktop. There are a few complaints that I've had:

    1. All of the themes look too "plasticky" and fake to me. You may find this very strange coming from a OS X user, but compared to OS X's Aqua or the Windows Classic theme (or even GNOME's themes), the KDE themes just don't feel right to me. I want something either a bit more serious (like Windows Classic) or something that does a great job with fanciness (like Aqua or even Vista's Aero). The KDE themes aren't terrible, but they can use some more work. I am also somebody who spend hours on web sites finding alternate themes, either; I call that a waste of time that can be better spent actually doing work.
    2. Now that I've been using OS X for an extended period of time, I can't live without Expose and Spotlight now. Expose is easily doable; I've seen GNOME and KDE clones of that feature. A clone of Spotlight is much harder; the closest thing that I've seen to it is Beagle. I'll like to see an effort to introduce something like Spotlight or even the long-delayed WinFS to the Linux world. Heck, I may strongly consider contributing to such a project.
    3. This page describes a few more complaints that I have about KDE. As an ex-Windows user (I dual-booted between FreeBSD and Windows XP), I like toolbars (I was upset with the Office 2007 ribbons because operations that used to require just one click on the toolbar may require two or three clicks, and there is no customizability). However, there is a such thing as too many default toolbars and too many options on the screen, which I notice in KDE applications. Many OS X applications handle access to features with Inspectors, which are dialog boxes that contain all of the main functionality of a program stored in tabs. The toolbar is only used for very commonly-used operations. Whenever I get to work, I just want a good-sized window to work with, along with a toolbar that contains some commonly-used operations. I don't want my workspace to be hidden by gobs of menus, toolbars, and other options. However, I don't want my functionality compromized either. Inspectors are a nice way of handling this. KDE can improve in this regard.

    Those are my only complaints about KDE. KDE is a very nice desktop environment. These improvements will make it the perfect desktop environment for me, and a serious contender to GNOME, Windows, and OS X for most other users. Keep up the good work.

  2. Re:Improve? by midkay · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Let's kill the bouncing."

    Or disable it in the configuration options. In fact, the several times I've used KDE in the not-too-distant past, it was off by default.

  3. Re:A few thoughts by pherthyl · · Score: 4, Informative

    Speed. KDE (and Gnome) need better speed optimizations.

    This is most likely your video card drivers. KDE is plenty fast, but if you dont have acceleration working in X, then everything will seem sluggish. My card is poorly supported (ATI Xpress 200m) and it makes everything seem slow.

    Memory usage. The memory requirements of KDE and and Gnome are ridiculous.

    Yes, if you mean ridiculously low. Fresh boot, Debian with KDE 3.5.4 on my old box, 32MB of ram used. Start up konversation (irc client) and it's about 45MB. Every subsequent application uses less extra ram, because the libraries are already loaded. Fresh boot on windows xp is at least 100MB, on my laptop more like 150. Most likely you have no idea on how to measure memory usage on linux. Have a look here: http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/

    Clutter.

    You've got a point there, it's getting better with every release though. And no, sacrificing features for simplicity like Gnome did is not a good strategy.

    Consistency.

    That's one of the strengths of KDE actually. Everything works the same across the KDE apps. Keyboard shortcuts, look, general menu structure, colours, style, etc etc. And then we get into the even more important consistency, which is functional consistency. Just about every app that needs a text editor uses the same one, so they all behave the same. The same spell checking engine is used almost everywhere, and the password manager saves passwords for every application that has a need to store them. No other operating system is anywhere close to that consistent. Not OS X, not Windows, nothing.

  4. Welcome to the past by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 5, Informative

    DCOP can already do amazing things, like opening and writing a koffice document (including commands to do things like ie: activate bold fonts and many other things)

    Do you want to send the oputput of ls -l to your IM contact via Kopete? Just do "dcop kopete KopeteIface messageContact jabber.com "`ls -l `"

    Those are the kind of things that make many people use KDE instead of Gnome BTW

    1. Re:Welcome to the past by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      How about trolling somewhere else? Gnome does NOT use dbus to any greater extent atm, in fact a recent kde3 installation probably makes more extensive use of it.. and what is dbus except dcop on steorids? tsk,tsk.

    2. Re:Welcome to the past by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 2, Informative

      Naturally, this work was done mostly by GNOME hackers...

      Well. It was Gnome who was lacking a IPC system, not KDE. So yes, it find it sensible that the ones who didn't have it are who implemented it. In the same way, since they've lacked it for years it's reasonable that they have built a comparable competitor.

      and it was built in such a way that there are no desktop dependencies. Had it been done by KDE hackers, it would have been tied to Qt

      Bullshit. Dbus does depend on glib.

      DBUS is heavily used in recent GNOMEs

      Bullshit. Dbus usage in gnome is very light - which I find reasonable, since gnome hasn't had a IPC mechanism for most of its life. There're programs with thousand of lines of code that need to be DBUS-ified

      KDE 4 in the other hand inherits apps which all of them used DCOP for years, so the DBUS usage in KDE 4 is actually much wider than in gnome. it does have sense: KDE has had a IPC mechanism for years, so the apps were ready for the idea, gnome apps wasn't so it will take some time until they catch up.

  5. Spotlight clone exists by rmm4pi8 · · Score: 2, Informative

    First there was Kat, which seems to be dead for unknown (personal to the lead developer?) reasons, but is still packaged by eg Mandriva, and is very useful, see its Wikipedia entry. Now its successor is Strigi which acts as KPart and KIO-slave. I don't think anyone's currently packaging it because it's pretty new, but there's no real cost to switching something like a search engine, so use Kat for now if you want it, and switch to Strigi when it becomes available for your distribution. I love the Plastik theme and the customizability of the KDE toolbars, so to each his own on that front. I think you will find that with KDE-look, you hardly have to spend hours looking for themes if you do want something different, however.

    --
    U.S. War Crimes blog. Email for free Mandriva support.
    1. Re:Spotlight clone exists by ajdlinux · · Score: 2, Informative

      Debian is packaging Strigi, I assume Ubuntu and co will follow.

  6. Re:A few thoughts by Homology · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would like to add that KDE 3.5 starts faster and loads applications quicker than earlier versions, in contrast to some other desktop environment I shall not name. Kudos to the KDE developers to work on this.

  7. Re:A few thoughts by oohshiny · · Score: 2, Informative

    You know, I don't particularly like KDE (see my other comment). But compared to Mac and Windows, KDE is a lot faster and more consistent. I think it also has significantly lower memory usage than a Mac. I'll give you that it is more cluttered than the Mac.

  8. KDE problems, fixed by BeeBeard · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's funny how most of KDE's critics just have no idea what they're talking about, and haven't even used KDE long enough to know how to fix any of the "problems" they have with it. All of your issues with KDE are easily fixed. Watch:

    The fonts are ugly.

    Font anti-aliasing isn't even enabled in the screenshot you linked to. That's a very easy fix. Control Center --> Appearance & Themes --> Fonts --> Tick "Use anti-aliasing for fonts". The difference will be dramatic. Everything will look beautiful after that. In fact on my main box, the fonts in KDE with anti-aliasing turned on look much better than the fonts in Windows XP with font smoothing/Cleartype turned on. I kid you not.

    The interface by default, is full of huge buttons wasting screen real estate.

    Again, I can tell you haven't actually used KDE. Otherwise, you might know that the little perforated area on the left of the toolbars in that screenshot let's you easily drag the toolbars to where you want them. If that's not good enough, you can right click on the buttons and customize the toolbars that way. In fact, in my own setup, I have those two toolbars combined into one.

    They (KDE) should look at hiring a beautification expert. Xandros and Linspire should provide a hint.

    This gave me a little chuckle. You see, both of those distros ship their own KDE theme on top of ordinary, run-of-the-mill KDE. So what you've basically just said is that you like the default KDE themes for those distributions. That's why KDE is themeable in the first place, just like Windows, Gnome, and pretty much everything else--there is this understanding that all users might not like the same color schemes and graphical changes. KDE allows for plenty of different ways of customizing what you see. In fact, I daresay you can change pretty much everything you see. My own desktop looks very OS X-y because I spent about 5 minutes making it look like that. If you're not willing to invest the same amount of time into making KDE look better, than why do you have all this free time to complain about how it looks?

  9. Re:Look at Vista for inspiration? by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Every one of those features is originally from Mac OS X, not Vista.

    --
    "Sufferin' succotash."
  10. Use xfce by jdbartlett · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's what xfce is for. It has a KDE compatibility layer, and now even comes in handy Xubuntu live CD form.

    http://xubuntu.com/

  11. Re:A few thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    This is most likely your video card drivers. KDE is plenty fast, but if you dont have acceleration working in X, then everything will seem sluggish. My card is poorly supported (ATI Xpress 200m) and it makes everything seem slow.


    nVidia with 128mb RAM. Official drivers. Windows feels more responsive.

    Yes, if you mean ridiculously low. Fresh boot, Debian with KDE 3.5.4 on my old box, 32MB of ram used. Start up konversation (irc client) and it's about 45MB. Every subsequent application uses less extra ram, because the libraries are already loaded. Fresh boot on windows xp is at least 100MB, on my laptop more like 150. Most likely you have no idea on how to measure memory usage on linux. Have a look here: http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/


    I am no fan of Windows. However, run KDE or Gnome on a PII 400MHz machine with 128mb RAM. They crawl, especially when actually trying to do something like run Firefox or OpenOffice (don't even bother). Windows XP, however, will run adequately. Firefox works and feels responsive. So does OpenOffice. To get KDE or Gnome to run adequately, you need to bump up the ram to at least 384mb, though it still feels less responsive.

    If you still don't believe me that KDE and Gnome use ridiculous amounts of RAM, download VMWare Server (make sure your machine has at least a gig of memory). Create several VMs with 128mb of ram. Try several Linux distros, both with KDE and Gnome. Feel how unusable they are. Bump it up to 256. See the improvement. Bump it up to 384 and notice more of an improvement. Now try Windows XP with 128. Doesn't work great, but it does work better than KDE or Gnome with that amount.