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Study Shows Good With Math Means Bad With People
Sylentmode writes "A recent study by Brookings Institution's Brown Center shows that students who are good with math are less likely to be happy, and are likely to have low confidence.
From the article "In essence, happiness is overrated" says study author Tom Loveless.
I wonder if Loveless is just a nickname, because he is so good with math."
Really? Didn't anyone stop to think that maybe math is overrated?
I do a bit of work with folks from the Netherlands. Great folks. Great country.
One guy turned to me and said "I wish we could be as confident as you Americans are."
Struck me dumb. This is a bright guy who I highly respect and yet his focus, despite his strengths, was on confidence.
So I kicked his ass.
(Just kidding.)
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All the article says is that students who are less confident and less happy with math are more likely to do well, in relation to how they feel about it, and how it is taught. Even the article seems to be misreading what it seems the study says. Sounds to me that harder, more complete math classes lead to better math skills.
I have freaks! I did something right...
One of the things it takes to be good at math is compulsiveness to complete tasks and to pay attention to detail. Those same drives are the ones that make you unhappy in the real world, which is by its nature messy, illogical and incomplete. Seems like in most arenas, the people who succeed are the ones who are internally driven and thus never really satisfied. Isn't that why most of the people at the top are off the bell curve in one or another aspect of social behavior?
That's because they've found a place filled with people who think just like they do in the important ways. Perhaps future studies can show that people good with math surrounded by those who aren't will be unhappy ;)
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I think the actual point of the article is:
Ignorance is bliss.
What this study found is that students from countries with higher average math scores have lower average enjoyment of and confidence in math than those from countries with lower scores. This does not actually imply that people who are more proficient in math enjoy it less than those who do not, in general, much less that they are less happy overall. What it does suggest is that educational systems that produce students who are more capable may be less enjoyable or result in less confidence, which actually makes a good deal of sense considering how math is taught in many countries that tend to perform well in these international comparisons.
"(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
Correlation does not equate causation.
How many times do I have to say this? Slashdot keeps making this mistake. Just because two things happen at the same time doesn't mean that one causes the other.
Children (especially girls) who show aptitude at math are treated as if they are social misfits, and their social missteps are toerated more than in "normal" children. Kids who are good at maath are frequently "taught" via positive reinforcement to be social misfits by society.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
I was thinking the same thing, but when I RTFA (I know, shocking!) and came away with an entirely different impression that is more in line with my experience. The article isn't about how people feel in general, but how they feel about math. I absolutely detested the subject. I complained bitterly about the teachers, the subject, the requirements, etc., yet went on to major in physics and was one course short of a double major in math. Nevertheless, I am optimistic and fairly sociable. Said one colleague to a client she wanted me to help diagnose a problem (I'm now a programmer), "He's the most technical geek I know, but he talks like a normal person so you'll be able to understand him." But I really don't find that to be all that unusual about either the brighter students I knew in college or the current programmers and tech support staff at our company.
Programmers in mirror are brighter than they appear
I don't know why I bother to mention it anymore, but would you people please stop using "FUD" as a synonym of "bullshit"? Just because you disagree with the assertion doesn't mean that the study's authors are purposefully and maliciously spreading "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" about math geeks.
"If you want to mingle with people with high IQs, then try Menza."
It's "Mensa", and smart people don't pay Mensa to tell them they are smart.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
As we all suspected,
...
the overfed confidence of americans is an artifact of their education system.
this article talks about the special case of math education and associates math failure
with high confidence.
I guess it applies to many other fields, like politics, e.g. ppl feel confident about their great country and dont feel the need to sit down and think what their leaders may be doing wrong.
Also this whole attitude creates the PHB corporate culture. Since confidence is such a highly valued attribute, the more confident u are, the more likely it is that confident ppl end up in important positions. But confidence, especially in the US, is not positively correlated with actual skill. As a result, idiots become managers and CEOs.
I have a gut feeling that the Americans who created the first parliamentary democracy, won the WWII and sent ppl to the moon, drew confidence only from achievements not by having teachers or psychologists teaching them how to be confident. It may be time that America went back to the basics
An attractive woman can be a dunce and someone will still laugh at her jokes, hang on her every word, carry her luggage, and give her a job. For the wrong reasons? Absolutely. I sometimes think that's part of the reason that some men do find intelligent women frightening. Add the power they already have via their sex to their intelligence, and it can be daunting. The guy can be left wondering if she's thinking "I could sleep my way to the top and beat you anyway, but I'll play it your way just because I find this way more amusing for now." Even when a person has too much character to win that way, the fact that they have the option can be irritating.