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Study Shows Good With Math Means Bad With People

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the numbers-are-my-only-friends dept.

Sylentmode writes "A recent study by Brookings Institution's Brown Center shows that students who are good with math are less likely to be happy, and are likely to have low confidence. From the article "In essence, happiness is overrated" says study author Tom Loveless. I wonder if Loveless is just a nickname, because he is so good with math."

13 of 479 comments (clear)

  1. Overrated by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...students who are good with math are less likely to be happy, and are likely to have low confidence. From the article "In essence, happiness is overrated" says study author Tom Loveless.

    Really? Didn't anyone stop to think that maybe math is overrated?

  2. Quite True by Sqwubbsy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do a bit of work with folks from the Netherlands. Great folks. Great country.
    One guy turned to me and said "I wish we could be as confident as you Americans are."
    Struck me dumb. This is a bright guy who I highly respect and yet his focus, despite his strengths, was on confidence.

    So I kicked his ass.
    (Just kidding.)

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  3. Completley misleading summary by jpardey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All the article says is that students who are less confident and less happy with math are more likely to do well, in relation to how they feel about it, and how it is taught. Even the article seems to be misreading what it seems the study says. Sounds to me that harder, more complete math classes lead to better math skills.

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  4. That's easy... by FlatCatInASlatVat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the things it takes to be good at math is compulsiveness to complete tasks and to pay attention to detail. Those same drives are the ones that make you unhappy in the real world, which is by its nature messy, illogical and incomplete. Seems like in most arenas, the people who succeed are the ones who are internally driven and thus never really satisfied. Isn't that why most of the people at the top are off the bell curve in one or another aspect of social behavior?

  5. Re:according to my calculations... by paeanblack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the actual point of the article is:

    Ignorance is bliss.

  6. Blurb misrepresents the actual study by foonf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What this study found is that students from countries with higher average math scores have lower average enjoyment of and confidence in math than those from countries with lower scores. This does not actually imply that people who are more proficient in math enjoy it less than those who do not, in general, much less that they are less happy overall. What it does suggest is that educational systems that produce students who are more capable may be less enjoyable or result in less confidence, which actually makes a good deal of sense considering how math is taught in many countries that tend to perform well in these international comparisons.

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    "(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
  7. Correlation v. Causation by descil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Correlation does not equate causation.

    How many times do I have to say this? Slashdot keeps making this mistake. Just because two things happen at the same time doesn't mean that one causes the other.

    1. Re:Correlation v. Causation by descil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, the article is pretty good. I have some complaints about the validity of their study because of these statements:

      "Nations that try to teach math in terms of daily life have the lowest test scores."
      "Countries reporting higher levels of enjoyment and confidence among math students don't do as well in the subject"

      Which seem to indicate a broad-level study ignoring individual people - in fact they are studying the entire country, and saying, "Okay well US students have high levels of confidence and enjoyment, and they do badly at Math. Chinese kids are less confident and happy, and they do well at math." Well okay yes, perhaps, but maybe US kids are just more confident because they don't get lambasted so often. And maybe Chinese kids are good at math because of the high pressure. At least, that's the explanation I've been given to understand. As another reply to my original comment says, there's not even necessarily a correlation here. Statistics lie, especially when you use such broad brush strokes, and ignore the statistics of individual people. For instance, in the US alone, do students with higher math skills correlate to lower confidence? The study does not say.

      The causation problem I have is this:
      "Study Shows Good With Math Means Bad With People"

      Which indicates causality. It's not a problem with the article, but a problem with slashdot. Unfortunately, slashdot postings do not imply editor comprehension. There is absolutely NO sense of journalistic integrity on slashdot. Sure, it's a news re-posting site, but the blurbs are very important, since most people don't RTFA. I admit, I didn't until you complained at me ;)

  8. it's a learned disability by fishdan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Children (especially girls) who show aptitude at math are treated as if they are social misfits, and their social missteps are toerated more than in "normal" children. Kids who are good at maath are frequently "taught" via positive reinforcement to be social misfits by society.

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    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
    1. Re:it's a learned disability by misanthrope101 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I always hear that, but I don't see it around me. Girls score higher than boys in most subject areas in school. Women make up more than half of all college students. A high percentage of law and medical students are female. Women are not penalized socially for being smart or articulate. What I have seen is that women who want to date a particular type of guy, the type who happens to be the jock alpha-male, have to try and fit in with the likes/dislikes of that type of guy, and they find themselves being someone they don't want to be, and resenting men for it.

      But I don't think many perl hackers want dumb women. Speaking as an English major, I don't like dumb women. I have met women who pretended to be dumber than they were, but without exception these women wanted to date a type of guy who wanted that in a woman. They ignore all the men who like strong, intelligent women, and then conclude that society painted them into a corner. It's sort of like men who date strippers--it's not that women are that way, but that women you like are that way. A woman having bad taste in men doesn't make me a pig. And all the smart women I know are respected by those around them. Yes, some are called "the B word," just as some rude, pushy men are called assholes. People are people, and no one gets a free pass.

    2. Re:it's a learned disability by misanthrope101 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      But heaven forbid I offer an opinion on a topic such as the current political climate, or the economy when I go home for a weekend. They don't want to hear it, not from me.
      Everyone who isn't in step with O'Reilly and Coulter is shouted down in this political climate. I feel like a pariah just for saying something as obvious as "torture is wrong." Our culture is dominated by people who think that contempt and derision qualify as valid arguments. It's not as if these same people are all calm and logical when they aren't talking to women, and then break into the "how dare you" tone when someone with ovaries comes in the room. They're assholes with the rest of us, too.

      People that have not lived in a situation where it is just easier to act dumb cant understand.

      It's easier for anyone to act dumb. Doesn't matter if you're male or female. I get made fun of for having a decent vocabulary, for reading, for not watching TV and sports, and so on. I'm not saying "guys have it worse," only that much of the flak women think they're getting because they're female isn't really because they're female--we get it too.

  9. "FUD" does not mean "bullshit" by foreverdisillusioned · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know why I bother to mention it anymore, but would you people please stop using "FUD" as a synonym of "bullshit"? Just because you disagree with the assertion doesn't mean that the study's authors are purposefully and maliciously spreading "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" about math geeks.

  10. you have it bassackwards by misanthrope101 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    No, I think you have it backwards. Women do have that certain something that men want, but that isn't the reason they aren't penalized for being smart. That's why they aren't penalized for being stupid. A smart, articulate woman has overcome not a conspiracy to keep her dumb, but a collective willingness to let her get away with being less smart than a man, because of that thing she has that the guys are after. It works against her in the long run, because expecting less of you is holding you down, but they can still get away with more if they happen to fill a sweater niceley.

    An attractive woman can be a dunce and someone will still laugh at her jokes, hang on her every word, carry her luggage, and give her a job. For the wrong reasons? Absolutely. I sometimes think that's part of the reason that some men do find intelligent women frightening. Add the power they already have via their sex to their intelligence, and it can be daunting. The guy can be left wondering if she's thinking "I could sleep my way to the top and beat you anyway, but I'll play it your way just because I find this way more amusing for now." Even when a person has too much character to win that way, the fact that they have the option can be irritating.