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Metaverse the Next Big Thing?

CrashPanic writes to tell us TCS Daily has an article entitled "The Next Big Thing" which is about Multiverse. It does a good job of making the case for the evolution to a 3D web through the lens of the past history of Netscape. From the article: "Forces are coalescing that will produce a shift comparable at least to the spread of broadband. This change will have enormous financial, cultural and political repercussions, and the most interesting aspect of the coming transformation is that it will not be some new and unexpected thing. Rather, the Web for many will become the cliched 3D virtual reality that has been so overused as a literary and cinematic devise that most of us have forgotten how compelling that vision was when it first appeared."

19 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. Yes but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is it practical?

    Come on now ... 3D web is very appealing, and we are starting to get the tools to work with these, but as long as we have the trusty mouse and keyboard, navigation in a 3D realm will always be awkward.

    Also there is the production costs involved with making such things.

    I am not sure if the industry will see this as the Next Big Thing (tm) soon.

    --
    Mike, the Anonymous Coward ;)

    1. Re:Yes but ... by FirienFirien · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Navigation in a 3D realm will always be awkward

      Tell that to the MMORPG players. If you want to be able to go up and down rather than having gravity pulling you down to the ground, then think back to even early versions of UT - being able to zoom around the map in flying mode. Mouse - point. Aim. Whatever. WASD or arrow keys, go towards aim; this includes flying, flying backwards, going straight up or down, or looping round in a climbing spiral with a half twist at the top. That isn't "awkward". Any beginner user in any system has trouble; think of the expense of driving lessons. In a computerised 3D realm, you can zoom around and bump into things without harm, so the learning curve is easier, and the range of movement much higher.

      Movement and navigation in a 3D realm is no barrier whatsoever.

      --
      Browsing with +2 to insightful posts and a higher threshold makes the average post seen seem a lot more ingenious
    2. Re:Yes but ... by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Movement and navigation in a 3D realm is no barrier whatsoever."

      Agreed, I'm an old fart and have have taught quite a few other old farts to "appreciate" 3D games. I find it takes an hour or so to learn reasonably fluid motion in a 3D game (and thus start to experience the game), but once learned the skill will transfer to most other 3D games. I know it does because they keep on playing without the need to retrain every time they get a new game.

      I think it is well worth the hour or two to learn the interface via practice, in the real 3D world most "noobs" can't even stand up for 10-15 months and many people never achive fluid motion even after a lifetime of practice!

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    3. Re:Yes but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I enjoy games with 3d navigation. For me, the first thing that comes to my mind is the cyberspace area in System Shock.

      But when you want efficiency in the interface, 3d has some serious drawbacks. It is very spacious. But you are still looking at it through a 2d projection. So things are occluded, distances are hard to judge, field-of-view may be limited, and so on.

      These limitations are intuitive for people (except perhaps for the blind), but that doesn't mean the limitations don't exist.

    4. Re:Yes but ... by GoatMonkey2112 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe it's possible, but is it really better in some way? How is navigating an avatar through a hallway of doors better than clicking a link?

      There are some potential social possibilities in a 3d web site, but does it really help you get to the information any better?

    5. Re:Yes but ... by DougWebb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're flying a plane, in real life, you're mostly working with two dimensions as well: you can turn left and right, and you can climb and descend. A small subset of planes and pilots can roll without changing direction, but normally that's not done; partial rolls are just a part of turning. There is also a throttle control, but that just controls how fast you're moving in your chosen 2D direction.

      My point isn't that planes can't be controlled in 3D, it's that most of the time they aren't. I think the reason for that is because we evolved on a large and basically two dimensional space, and 2D navigation is simply more natural for us. That makes 2D controls easier to understand and use, even for navigating 3D spaces.

      If you want an example of true 3D controls, think of a helicopter: up/down, left/right, forward/back, and apparently very difficult to control safely.

  2. So basically... by joto · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This man uses several pages to talk about the origins of the web and how revolutionary netscape navigator was, but he doesn't even remember it's immediate predecessor NCSA Mosaic, or the predecessor of the web: gopher? And you expect me to think this person is more qualified to predict the future of the web, than someone else, such as my grandmother?

  3. No it won't by realnowhereman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The current web represents a huge investment in time, effort and money. It's not going anywhere for a long time.

    --
    Carpe Daemon
  4. Not for workstations by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The computers most of us use give us a virtual desktop complete with files and crap scattered around. Minus spilled coffee I suppose.

    It would be next to impossible to convince a non-technical person to virtually walk through a filing system to find their work when they could just browse to it normally without the 3D stuff.

    But the desktop paradigm breaks down when we talk about portable devices. These devices are both much more limited (by being small) and much more powerful (because by their nature they have to be close to the user and their environment) that a totally new way of seeing the inside of your system may have traction.

    William Gibson had this in Virtual Light. Neal Stephenson had it in Snow Crash. I think it will eventually come true.

    One thing I am sure of. If I am going to have little LCD screens in my glasses I want to focus on infinity to look at them. Not sure how you do that without massive amounts of refractive material in the small space available.

    1. Re:Not for workstations by suggsjc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      a command-line is still a hell of a lot easier way to navigate our filesystems than point-and-click

      Agree and disagree. Agree because (7 times out of 10) it is faster. Disagree because it isn't always the most obvious/direct (or even fastest). If you need to go to /var/log/apache, then yep cd /var/log/apache is just about the quickest method I can think of. However, navigating to a directory that you haven't been to in a while or not exactly sure how to get there the cd ls cd ls cd ls cd ls method actually may not be quicker than clicking as you go.

      I've been doing a lot of editing with vi. Both from a *nix terminal and also from a windows gvim environment with multiple instances running. Sometimes I find it faster (when given the chance on windows) to alt-tab to my document grab the mouse and highlight a section of code, ctrl-v alt-tab ctrl-p, later rinse repeat. Granted those are usually special cases where *I* find it faster than just having multiple documents open in the same vi instance and never leaving the keyboard, but it just kinda provest that there isn't a single best method across the board for all users.

      That said, long live vi. Even if we go to a virtual 3d world, I'll still use it while typing on a virtual keyboard...I can just get work done (quickly).
      --
      When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
    2. Re:Not for workstations by suggsjc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, I agree "command-completion" is great and wonderful. But if you don't remember what the directory starts with then it can't help you (sometime you just have to see it to remember)...again this is a somewhat contrived but valid case.

      I'm not a windows person (for most things) and I too have installed unixutils and couldn't imagine working without them.

      The adobe example is probably the worst example of a GUI not doing it better. First, explorer makes all of the pdf's have a "pdf" icon and by just clicking on them it would launch Adobe Acrobat reader. Second, that would require you to remember the command for running Adobe...in the explorer GUI you just click, thats it. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the command line for many a task but at the rate your going sounds like you prefer it for *everything*. Lets see you play a first person shooter with the command line, or how about graphic editing? Its a *great* tool, but it isn't for everything no matter how much you want it to be. And that was my original point, use it when it makes sense or just use the right tool for the job. Sorry if I sounded condascending back at you...

      --
      When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
  5. No Compelling Need by sagefire.org · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This sounds like change for the sake of change.

    Until there is a real NEED for this, I don't see it happening.

    That said, I would think that true VR will come to game consoles long before it comes to any generic computer. In the Console market, this seems like a natural evolution and not just some NEAT-O idea being added on for the sake of change.

  6. The Metaverse is not like the web by zoeblade · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Metaverse, if anyone manages to create one that is truly decentralised, will co-exist with the web. If it's going to replace anything, it's going to replace IRC - a fun place to wander around aimlessly and meet new people, or to form a small group of friends you have things in common with regardless of your physical location. The web is a resource for finding or publishing information. The Metaverse is a communications tool for hanging out with friends and meeting new people.

    1. Re:The Metaverse is not like the web by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I disagree. IRC is generally a topic based system divided into discrete channels, several of which you can occupy simultaneously. Second Life is a location-based system with a moving radius of audibility, and it's quite possible to get lost. There are spatial concerns regarding crowding. The modes of interaction in these two environments are substantially different enough that Second Life by itself is inadequate as a replacement.

      Come up with a multi-location (tabbed?) VR client, perhaps, with a slightly more discrete transmission mode, and you might have something. Oh, and try not to floor the graphics cards too hard.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  7. Second Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Seems to be taking off. 3D environments have their place (gaming, social interaction, data visualisation even), but I don't see it replacing the web for the bulk of what's already out there any time soon.

  8. Flashback by pubjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I remember going to a presentation at SGI UK in about 1997, which titled something like "Web 2.0 - the coming 3D web space". It was about how the next generation of the web would all be in 3D. I thought it was bollocks then, and I think it's bollocks today.

    If 3D user interfaces were better then we'd be using 3D versions of desktop applications by now. Clearly Photoshop or Microsoft Word with a 3D interface doesn't make much sense, so why should it for online applications?

  9. It's time VR returned by slim · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The reason VR (by which I mean the illusion of reality through 3D googles and motion sensing) was such a flash in the pan was that the concept was sound but the technology wasn't ready.

    I remember trying it out in arcades in the early 90s. This was a time when we'd see the first Ridge Racer coin op and be astonished by the texture mapped 3D.

    The VR stuff was low res (whether due to the graphics cards used or the screen technology in the goggles), used flat shaded models with low poly counts. But that wasn't the problem, the problem was the low frame rate combined with the slow response time of position detector in the helmet. You got an adequate sensation of seeing a 3D world, but if you turned your head it would take 0.25 seconds for your view to catch up. It was unconvincing, disorienting and nauseous.

    So most of us wrote off VR, and the world moved on.

    I'd argue that, largely due to the gaming industry, we're now long past the technological barriers that broke VR back then. Hardcore PC gamers insist on crazy framerates for games like Quake, so you can now buy commodity hardware that could present beautiful 3D worlds as a stereo pair on two displays as 120FPS without breaking a sweat.

    Nintendo has demonstrated that it can deliver an affordable, small, 3D (or 6D if you agree with Sony that pitch/yaw/roll are extra) position sensor, with a gamer-friendly response time (I don't know how fast, but the point of the sensor bar rather than using lightgun technology is to get a response time of 1/60 s)

    And finally, LCD colour screens have come of age.

    I have doubts about this article - most people prefer to sketch on a 2D piece of paper than make 3D clay models. But I do think it's about time VR got a second chance.

  10. It looks fine to me, thanks by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course, it's nonsense to say "the interface is too clumsy" or "it's impractical". The early adopters and a whole bunch of their friends are already there and doing just fine. If you think a keyboard can't handle graceful movements, you've never been aced in Unreal or Tribes by somebody who's shooting you from over there one second and kicking you ass from over there, the next. All while doing a victory dance and providing a running commentary on your p0wnage.

    No, the interface is pleny rich, but of course it's going to get better.

    And I'd be careful of thinking that the "fully immersive encounter suit might be the end game". There are those that thought that animated gifs would be the end game, too. "Someday, we will even have on-demand delivery of music on the internet. Maybe even video!". All whilst many of use are downloading The Departed via bittorrent, and the Goth-Rock boxed set, while watching The Daily Show via YouTube. Be very careful when thinking you can envision an "endgame".

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  11. Re:Bob? by DaveCar · · Score: 3, Insightful


    Yeah. 3D is great for games and visualisation. Why are they trying to shoehorn all this stuff which has no real-world analogue into a model of the world? How does a Gantt chart work in this crazy place? Is it like some set of blocks which represent tasks which when I throw up into the air twists around like a Transformer toy into a diagram representing a critical path analysis?

    Why have we spent the last 50(?, 60?) years getting away from the physical limitiations of meatspace just to reimpose arbitrary constraints on the much more useful abstract environment which we have created?

    How do I tab-browse this world? How do I have multiple world-windows open at once? Won't my legs get tired from running around all day? What happens when I break stuff in my room from crashing into it whilst gesticulating?